Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

Too busy striking themselves.

he hasnt been given enough a chance to prove his mettle

his referendum campaign was that chance, what greater chance do you want?

a referendum he wasn't particular fussed over in a partnership with a bunch of Tories probably not his most obvious moment to get all statesmanlike

statesmanlike is such cobblers too, he's barely had time to introduce the kind of economic policies he'd like to see the party adopt

and to repeat the bleeding obvious, if you want to tell people that immigration is ok, you'd better have some policies in place to deal with the extra strain on state resources. rather than just nodding and going along with cutting the fuck out of everything.

basically how I break it down to an extent
https://twitter.com/huwlemmey/status/747149954750287872

(xxxxp) exactly. Corbyn had an entire year. I don't know if the rumours of him refusing to stand on a stage with Cameron are true, but if they are it seems short-sighted. We were four years away from a General Election last week, would it really have been a problem to work with Cameron to ensure that Remain won a majority?

most historic moment for the country in the last however many years and it's not the moment for the leader of the opposition to show some sort of gumption? xps

he didn't even have to stand alongside the tories, just y'know speak in a way to natural labour voters in a way that connected with them

almost the same percentage of Labour voters as SNP voters went with Remain, haven't seen anybody calling fuck out of Nicola Sturgeon

his referendum campaign was that chance, what greater chance do you want?

Most Labour voters voted remain, what more do you want? xps

We were four years away from a General Election last week, would it really have been a problem to work with Cameron to ensure that Remain won a majority?

Cameron thinks Corbyn is a friend of yer brown-skinned terrorists. But the notion this would've made any difference to anyone is hilarious.

PLANK CORBYN SHOULD HAVE DEPLOYED MATTY TAYLOR TO INFLUENCE KEY BREXIT CONSTITUENCIES, INTRODUCE SYSTEMS THINKING TO SHADOW CABINET MEETINGS

"almost the same percentage of Labour voters as SNP voters went with Remain, haven't seen anybody calling fuck out of Nicola"

I know SNP voters who voted remain in pursuit of a second independence referendum.

Is David Miliband coming back to stand for Jo Cox's seat and then etc etc save us all? That seems to be the extend of the PLP's 'vision'.

he stumbled between navigating anti immigration tories and pro immigration/progressive/liberal socialists. waitrose socialism wouldnt have cut it in old labour bases. and to be anti immigration (and do anything with cameron) would negate corbyn's core socialist beliefs. he just seems incapable of thinking 'bigger'. all they needed to do was speak louder IMO, denounce the leave campaign for what it was, remind people that the enemy was austerity cuts, not the EU, but that just didnt seem to come through. all the labour leaflets i got were just about relatively small points on what voting remain would save. he might have gotten most labour voters to vote remain, but the problem isnt that, its who those labour voters are (or arent, rather) in 2016.

Most Labour voters voted remain, what more do you want? xps

back of a fag packet calculation but

63% of labour voters voted remain

75% of green voters voted remain

if labour could have equalled that then that would have been 900k more remain voters and 900k less leave voters

Remain: 16,141,241 + 900,000 = 17,041,241

Leave: 17,410,742 - 900,000 = 16,510,742

thanks Obama

calculation based on 9M labour voters in the 2015 GE btw

Corbyn, like Cameron, didn't have a plan come Friday morning. Stir ego is looking good this morning because she came to the podium with a clear plan and looks even better because no one else has. If Corbyn had come out on Friday morning and articulated a plan for a progressive exit, making the best of the situation. If he wasn't that hot on the EU then what was his plan for a post-EU future. He didn't get control of the narrative and left the door open for the plotters, compounding a lacklustre remain campaign.

It seems like arrogance or incompetence not to have any contingency plans, not as bad as the deafening silence from the leave campaign but the remain side has been too busy collapsing to hold them to account.

ok - so Corbyn is the sole reason they didn't equal the LOL Green? Their leadership isn't any more effective than Corbyn when it was scrutinized and their small base is already signed up to the EU and composed of the base that could've belonged to Labour in the first place, had people of Corbyn's wing been more of a presence at the top of Lab in the last few years.

56% of Tories vote against Dave.

Corbyn has just issued a statement. He is 1) not standing down and 2) standing in a new election. Looks like he is taking this to the bitter, bitter end.

Good.

I'm glad too.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl1n7CqXEAAZQsl.jpg

can we extrapolate out based on however big + how presumably homogeneous a group green voters are

honestly in my cynicism for all the armchair postgaming the only thing i think might've magically worked as a silver bullet to convince our racist electorate is ... tony blair 1.0, some preternaturally gifted slimy communicator in the right place at the right time. the people who voted leave wouldn't have been meaningfully corrected by a distinction abt austerity rather than the eu causing their problems

Corbyn, like Cameron, didn't have a plan come Friday morning

This is absolutely ludicrous - his statement does talk about shaping a future where employment and social rights are protected. Which was the case whether the UK stayed in or came out of the EU.

idk what is this love with Nicola Sturgeon, she hasn't been tested yet, has had a very easy ride. Totally a new Nick Clegg-type, waiting to be pounded by the dirt of the reality of politics, which is an Independent Scotland.

ok - so Corbyn is the sole reason they didn't equal the LOL Green?

just saying it might have helped if we'd have heard his voice a bit more

There were plenty of Labour remain voices. Former labour PMs etc. The good and great of Sunderland told them all where to go.

sturgeon is one of the most experienced politicians in scotland & has a longer & more varied history in politics than the current (?) PM or chancellor

the north east is probably exactly the people that corbyn should have been connecting with tbh. if he doesn't speak for them, wtf is he even for?

Speaking for constituencies voting by margins of 68/32 or 70/30 to leave the EU would not necessarily mean taking an even more unambiguously pro-EU position.

Ok Cozen - she just seems flavour of the moment and to see her cast as 'oh if only Lab could be led by someone like her maybe all our problems would be solved' just isn't on. Doesn't stick.

I think the mistake is to think that dangling someone from the left-wing of the party is enough. Especially when his leadership has been undermined night and day by the PLP, who has spent decades doing not that much for the North East or Wales.

The problems that Labour have in these areas are far deeper. Its hard to know at all how they can be solved, or that base could be re-built. One thing you don't do is what we have seen today.

maybe flavour of the moment in england, sure, but that's just a function of ppl's general ignorance about scottish politics. she is an extraordinarily capable and experienced politician (ex-lawyer):

activist since 16, stood for WM in 1992 (no success), SNP energy & education spokesperson late 90s, MSP at opening of holyrood, then shadow cab sec for education, then for health, then justice. elected deputy leader of the SNP over a decade ago. served as SNP's holyrood parliamentary leader (ie leader of the opposition) from 2003-2007 while salmond took a seat in WM. when SNP were elected in 2007, she was cabinet secretary for health (notably successful in her handling of two disease outbreaks.) 2012 cabinet sec for cities /infrastructure/investment.

since 2014, well you probably know that story

if lab could be led by someone like nicola sturgeon (i.e. someone with that much time served with the party, of cabinet level experience and who is able to carry the party membership wholesale) then yeah they would be in better stead. unfortunately, you can’t just magic those up. you’ve got to invest in them

accept you’re underlying point though: that’s not what people mean when they say it though; they mean someone who is authoritative & presents well.

I know SNP voters who voted remain in pursuit of a second independence referendum.

― a goon shaped fule (onimo)

do you mean voted leave?

I know a couple who did that in a misguided attempt to force indyref2

if we're talking well liked female politicians in scotland who have been tested & has had a very easy ride... look no further than ruth davidson, the single most overrated politician in the british isles. a politician of no substance whose one actual achievement is beating the hollow husk of scottish labour into distant second at holyrood

sidebar on scottish politics ends

haven't*

Sorry, yes. They voted leave, hoping for exactly the result we got. xxxp

Jesus Christ lol Johnson what a legend has spoken. Guys, this was never about immigration, it was just about legislation. We can still keep all the benefits of being in Europe. It wasn't an overwhelming win. The pound is strong, not weak. Thank fuck, we can all go to bed now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/

Almost looks like he's trying to get out of being the next PM after all.

Oh here, why did they all start revolting again?

Jeremy Corbyn is preparing to call for a war crimes investigation into Tony Blair http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-still-prepared-to-call-for-war-crimes-investigation-into-tony-blair-a7042926.html

Sky News Newsdesk Verified account
‏@SkyNewsBreak

Leading 'out' campaigner Boris Johnson says the margin by which the UK voted to leave the European Union was "not entirely overwhelming"

Lol! that has made my night.

lots of people itt are calling for a Blair mk 2 and another diluted Tory manifesto, and still think beating the Tories at any cost represents some kind of victory. Maybe '97-'07 was the golden years for some people idk. Also people trying conflate Corbyn's calmness + lack of media sheen as incompetence is bullshit, it's like what ShariVari said about if he was a Vegas era Elvis trying to diverge from the 2 party system - he'd still get tarred with the same brush.

Any appetite for corbyn bringing labour (however electorally diminished) to where they should be on the spectrum, shedding the blair scum to form or join whatever, and start from there?

I wouldve thought this was the plan for him anyways, but has brexit significantly changed ppl's views on this or was the above not widely seen as the likely (necessary) approach?

@mattholehouse: Where we are now: EU27 have offered UK a six month window to get grip and form government it can negotiate in good faith that may inc EEA

idk what is this love with Nicola Sturgeon, she hasn't been tested yet, has had a very easy ride.

This is exactly what I was going to post earlier. We'll get to see her real mettle over the course of this crisis, it's been a cakewalk for her so far in Scotland with Labour disintegrating. Salmond made all the breakthroughs for SNP and he was in charge for the Indyref. All she's had to do so far is tiptoe round Labour corpses strewn here there and everywhere while doing her Mini Merkel routine.

this country is probably utterly fucked and will never get better in my lifetime because that's how enough fuckers like it and this referendum is only a tiny bit of that

75% of green voters voted remain

what the actual fuck @ this being under, like, 98%

note of good cheer before bedtime. fuck the PLP, burn the fucking party to the ground, it's all its good for.

Dogs and cat lie together and me and nv find our common political cause