Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

thanks Obama

calculation based on 9M labour voters in the 2015 GE btw

Corbyn, like Cameron, didn't have a plan come Friday morning. Stir ego is looking good this morning because she came to the podium with a clear plan and looks even better because no one else has. If Corbyn had come out on Friday morning and articulated a plan for a progressive exit, making the best of the situation. If he wasn't that hot on the EU then what was his plan for a post-EU future. He didn't get control of the narrative and left the door open for the plotters, compounding a lacklustre remain campaign.

It seems like arrogance or incompetence not to have any contingency plans, not as bad as the deafening silence from the leave campaign but the remain side has been too busy collapsing to hold them to account.

ok - so Corbyn is the sole reason they didn't equal the LOL Green? Their leadership isn't any more effective than Corbyn when it was scrutinized and their small base is already signed up to the EU and composed of the base that could've belonged to Labour in the first place, had people of Corbyn's wing been more of a presence at the top of Lab in the last few years.

56% of Tories vote against Dave.

Corbyn has just issued a statement. He is 1) not standing down and 2) standing in a new election. Looks like he is taking this to the bitter, bitter end.

Good.

I'm glad too.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl1n7CqXEAAZQsl.jpg

can we extrapolate out based on however big + how presumably homogeneous a group green voters are

honestly in my cynicism for all the armchair postgaming the only thing i think might've magically worked as a silver bullet to convince our racist electorate is ... tony blair 1.0, some preternaturally gifted slimy communicator in the right place at the right time. the people who voted leave wouldn't have been meaningfully corrected by a distinction abt austerity rather than the eu causing their problems

Corbyn, like Cameron, didn't have a plan come Friday morning

This is absolutely ludicrous - his statement does talk about shaping a future where employment and social rights are protected. Which was the case whether the UK stayed in or came out of the EU.

idk what is this love with Nicola Sturgeon, she hasn't been tested yet, has had a very easy ride. Totally a new Nick Clegg-type, waiting to be pounded by the dirt of the reality of politics, which is an Independent Scotland.

ok - so Corbyn is the sole reason they didn't equal the LOL Green?

just saying it might have helped if we'd have heard his voice a bit more

There were plenty of Labour remain voices. Former labour PMs etc. The good and great of Sunderland told them all where to go.

sturgeon is one of the most experienced politicians in scotland & has a longer & more varied history in politics than the current (?) PM or chancellor

the north east is probably exactly the people that corbyn should have been connecting with tbh. if he doesn't speak for them, wtf is he even for?

Speaking for constituencies voting by margins of 68/32 or 70/30 to leave the EU would not necessarily mean taking an even more unambiguously pro-EU position.

Ok Cozen - she just seems flavour of the moment and to see her cast as 'oh if only Lab could be led by someone like her maybe all our problems would be solved' just isn't on. Doesn't stick.

I think the mistake is to think that dangling someone from the left-wing of the party is enough. Especially when his leadership has been undermined night and day by the PLP, who has spent decades doing not that much for the North East or Wales.

The problems that Labour have in these areas are far deeper. Its hard to know at all how they can be solved, or that base could be re-built. One thing you don't do is what we have seen today.

maybe flavour of the moment in england, sure, but that's just a function of ppl's general ignorance about scottish politics. she is an extraordinarily capable and experienced politician (ex-lawyer):

activist since 16, stood for WM in 1992 (no success), SNP energy & education spokesperson late 90s, MSP at opening of holyrood, then shadow cab sec for education, then for health, then justice. elected deputy leader of the SNP over a decade ago. served as SNP's holyrood parliamentary leader (ie leader of the opposition) from 2003-2007 while salmond took a seat in WM. when SNP were elected in 2007, she was cabinet secretary for health (notably successful in her handling of two disease outbreaks.) 2012 cabinet sec for cities /infrastructure/investment.

since 2014, well you probably know that story

if lab could be led by someone like nicola sturgeon (i.e. someone with that much time served with the party, of cabinet level experience and who is able to carry the party membership wholesale) then yeah they would be in better stead. unfortunately, you can’t just magic those up. you’ve got to invest in them

accept you’re underlying point though: that’s not what people mean when they say it though; they mean someone who is authoritative & presents well.

I know SNP voters who voted remain in pursuit of a second independence referendum.

― a goon shaped fule (onimo)

do you mean voted leave?

I know a couple who did that in a misguided attempt to force indyref2

if we're talking well liked female politicians in scotland who have been tested & has had a very easy ride... look no further than ruth davidson, the single most overrated politician in the british isles. a politician of no substance whose one actual achievement is beating the hollow husk of scottish labour into distant second at holyrood

sidebar on scottish politics ends

haven't*

Sorry, yes. They voted leave, hoping for exactly the result we got. xxxp

Jesus Christ lol Johnson what a legend has spoken. Guys, this was never about immigration, it was just about legislation. We can still keep all the benefits of being in Europe. It wasn't an overwhelming win. The pound is strong, not weak. Thank fuck, we can all go to bed now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/

Almost looks like he's trying to get out of being the next PM after all.

Oh here, why did they all start revolting again?

Jeremy Corbyn is preparing to call for a war crimes investigation into Tony Blair http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-still-prepared-to-call-for-war-crimes-investigation-into-tony-blair-a7042926.html

Sky News Newsdesk Verified account
‏@SkyNewsBreak

Leading 'out' campaigner Boris Johnson says the margin by which the UK voted to leave the European Union was "not entirely overwhelming"

Lol! that has made my night.

lots of people itt are calling for a Blair mk 2 and another diluted Tory manifesto, and still think beating the Tories at any cost represents some kind of victory. Maybe '97-'07 was the golden years for some people idk. Also people trying conflate Corbyn's calmness + lack of media sheen as incompetence is bullshit, it's like what ShariVari said about if he was a Vegas era Elvis trying to diverge from the 2 party system - he'd still get tarred with the same brush.

Any appetite for corbyn bringing labour (however electorally diminished) to where they should be on the spectrum, shedding the blair scum to form or join whatever, and start from there?

I wouldve thought this was the plan for him anyways, but has brexit significantly changed ppl's views on this or was the above not widely seen as the likely (necessary) approach?

@mattholehouse: Where we are now: EU27 have offered UK a six month window to get grip and form government it can negotiate in good faith that may inc EEA

idk what is this love with Nicola Sturgeon, she hasn't been tested yet, has had a very easy ride.

This is exactly what I was going to post earlier. We'll get to see her real mettle over the course of this crisis, it's been a cakewalk for her so far in Scotland with Labour disintegrating. Salmond made all the breakthroughs for SNP and he was in charge for the Indyref. All she's had to do so far is tiptoe round Labour corpses strewn here there and everywhere while doing her Mini Merkel routine.

this country is probably utterly fucked and will never get better in my lifetime because that's how enough fuckers like it and this referendum is only a tiny bit of that

75% of green voters voted remain

what the actual fuck @ this being under, like, 98%

note of good cheer before bedtime. fuck the PLP, burn the fucking party to the ground, it's all its good for.

Dogs and cat lie together and me and nv find our common political cause

No idea about the UK but in Ireland the Green Party (back when it was relevant) contained a significant Eurosceptic/Lexit wing.

I'm just about all linked out, and this is from a guy I don't know, but does at least point out the context of the coming year and under which any negotiations would be conducted
https://medium.com/@octskyward/ok-what-now-e3f64d38f7#.xenq7qjme

That link is pretty terrifying and looks sound but is written by someone who is neutral on BoJo and thinks he will be a tough negotiator but it seems to me he wouldn't have the first clue about how to constructively negotiate let alone do it staunchly.

This in an interesting perspective on the possibilities for Scotland:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-26/brexit-may-be-scotland-s-chance-to-steal-london-finance-crown?utm_content=buffer1e5eb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

If the UK announces that it will create a new European Trade Area with any other economically equal countries that exit the EU, featuring no trade barriers but controlled migration, then the existence of an alternative would likely increase support for EU exit in other major European economies. By adopting a “compromise is death” negotiating strategy the EU leaves the UK with only one card to play — sticking in the knife and helping them along.

I am...sceptical about the advisability of this tactic, and about the likelihood that e.g. the French would be all about joining a "Made in Britain" /Provisional EEA project.

if Corbyn appoints another shadow cabinet by the end of the day, like he's said he's going to, then is there a good chance that among the people he appoints will be some of the small number of Labour MPs who supported brexit? (Kate Hoey? Graham Stringer? can John Cryer be a member of the shadow cabinet at the same time as being PLP chair?) (he doesn't have that many ppl left to choose from as much as anything else, considering how many MPs ruled themselves out back in September as well as everyone who resigned from the shadow cabinet yesterday).
if he does, it seems like that could be significant in terms of ppl's hopes that Labour are going to push to somehow block or at least delay brexit, also significant for his opponents attempts to paint him as someone who was never really committed to remain campaign?

Shares in Barclays and RBS have been suspended. Foxtons are down 25% in the last three hours.

Osborne's statement obvs not helping a great deal.

Watson has told Corbyn to resign

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl8n-HhWMAARbtX.jpg

:D

they'll never take our ecstasy away

Corbyn could conceivably not have enough support in the PLP to get on the ballot for a leadership election he'd win by a country mile. Both sides are taking legal advice on whether he'd have to be included automatically but there is no clear guidance or precedent.

A parliamentary party that can't even get rid of its own leader is totally electable. I can hear the voters hammering down the door now

Greens need to pounce immediately if he's ousted

I'd be tempted if i was him. I think he has too much love for the party to switch sides, though.

Maybe Labour should just split up for the kids.

New Statesman is reporting that Watson didn't tell Corbyn to resign and the BBC is wrong, fwiw.