Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

It will take a while before all that properly sinks in. Gove was clear there would be some short term problems and Lilico advertised the fact he expected a recession but it would all be worth it in the end. It's the ultimate 'keep calm and carry on' motivational poster. When it all unravels they'll struggle.

The have just delivered the result 52% of the country asked for

you mean 37.4% of the electorate

the idea that the voters didn't represent 100% of the populace is cold comfort

If there is a significant number of people who vote in general elections but didn't vote in the referendum then I'd be very surprised.

Gideon's baby aka Britain's credit rating lowered by S&P to AA, from AAA. All that austerity..

when 52% of the population who bothered to vote in the referendum chiefly voted on the basis of english nationalism and nativism i don't find it strange that old lefty corbyn who won't sing god save the queen and thinks the Malvinas should be given to Argentina isnt exactly winning over the UK polity

Yeah, the idea that a Corbyn could win over any voters, Remain or Leave, in this current climate is hard to imagine. "Vote for us – I'm secretly a bit Brexity"

I don't know what he could have done, given his beliefs, but anyway.

I'm never coming back to wherever this is

new UK tourism campaign

The current climate is about to change. So much so that Corbyn's support or otherwise for Remain won't be much to dwell upon. xp

The rally in London looks fantastic.

George Eaton (New Statesman) on twitter:

I'm now near-certain that Corbyn voted Leave. Hear papers have more tomorrow.

I think there are essentially two options for Labour going forward. One is to, acknowledge that immigration brings some issues but challenge bigotry head on, sell the contribution of migrants to the economy, culture and communities and aim to spread some of the economic benefits of being part of a global economy outside the metropolitan hubs. The other is to try to win over the right by shifting further to the right, even though whatever you do will never be seen as enough.

If whoever replaces Corbyn can do the former effectively, good luck to them. I have no idea, from the contenders, who that would be though. Corbyn is trying.

This is hyperbolic but lots of it hits:

http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/2729-the-whorled-circle-of-a-political-cosmology

For years, Labour has attempted to endear itself to the populace by adopting the language of the far right – Gordon Brown’s ‘British jobs for British workers’; Ed Miliband putting the words ‘controls on immigration’ on an official mug and the rock that would become his tombstone. It’s a curious form of self-abasement: a metropolitan elite, terrified of what it is and desperate to be seen as something else, takes its worst prejudices about the working classes and upholds them as a positive. Unsurprisingly, it hasn’t worked – people who do subscribe to racist ideologies will tend to vote for parties that espouse them out of the genuine conviction of evil, rather than those who openly announce that their evil is only a cynical ploy. But it has had the effect of entrenching the language of the far right across the political spectrum, and thereby reinforcing the idiot axiom that you have to speak it to win popular support.

if it comes out that corbyn voted leave that would for sure be the nail in the coffin right?

are there any good options left for Corbyn at this point? it seems unlikely he will quit, so presumably there will now be a leadership election. if he wins re-election Labour are fucked. right? whether or not you think a Corbyn led Labour party was un-electable before it surely will be once a majority of his MPs have made clear that they think he's useless. any other Labour members on ilx - would you vote for him in another leadership election? I mean, I know that his opponents have intentionally engineered a situation where his remaining will be a disaster, but that doesn't change the fact that it *will* be a disaster. I guess I'd vote for him again, but it's such a mess.

xp to all that Corbyn voted Leave stuff, which I'd previously assumed was just nonsense, but if there is actually proof he did then oh god

Is there any way short of violence that rallies like the Corbyn-supporting one can prevent themselves being hijacked by SWP and other parties? I guess not. Seems a shame for genuine Labour Corbyn loyalists.

No, the SWP would turn up to the opening of a cat cafe if they thought it would get them on the news. They've tarnished every single vaguely leftist gathering for twenty years.

haha sounds like the RCP in the US

Laura Kuenssberg
‏@bbcIaurak
BREAKING: Understand Peter Mandelson is being suggested by MPs as a potential candidate to oppose Corbyns in a leadership contest.

Damn it, i think they've hit on the winning formula. I'm pretty sure i could beat Mandelson in a leadership contest, let alone Corbyn.

I'm genuinely starting to think that every major player in contemporary British politics is trying to sabotage their own attempts to get power because they realise it'll be appalling if they do.

I hope Corbyn lasts until at least Chilcot.

i hope Mandelson no wait that's not legal

Aw, it's a fake account.

Is there a gif of that young guy beaming with excitement and putting on a Che t-shirt while a crowd cheers him on? That was hilarious and there should be a gif. I think that was at a Corbyn rally but I'm not sure.

It's irrelevant - Corbyn won't have nominations from enough MPs to get on the ballot. Unless there's a rule I don't know about which puts him automatically on there. If he is on the ballot he could well win and the Labour Party will probably split.

If he isn't on the ballot the party will split.

Legal advice is being taken on whether he has to go on automatically.

he doesn't have to abide by the no confidence i thought

How can people be certain he voted leave? It was a private ballot. He said on Twitter he voted remain, anyway.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/745886722987294720

xp he doesn't, but MPs and MEPs can still force leadership contest if 50 of them nominate challenger, I think

could corbyn maybe stand aside and endorse someone of his choosing to carry the membership? someone 'electable'? dunno who that is tho. clive lewis?

strike that. couldn't get his candidate on the ballot

The Labour Party hasn't committed regicide in my memory and I suspect this is yet another area where they turn out to be a paler version of the Tories.

Agree with Tracer though that Labour being in the driving seat when the settlement is agreed trumps virtually all other concerns. If nothing else they're more likely to win sympathy from the EU than one of the dudes who kicked the fucking thing over in the first place.

Because I haven't seen it mentioned yet, Cameron has to go down as our worst post-war PM? Even overlooking austerity, he's left the country poorer and on the verge of literally breaking apart. Instead of trying to bring the country in times of crisis he has opened the door and actively invited the UK to tear itself apart. All bravado, all tactics, no real strategy.

In April 2015, Lewis made controversial comments when, in an interview for the New Statesman, he said (in jest), in response to a question on whether he was taking his upcoming victory for granted, he would only lose if he was "caught with [his] pants down behind a goat with Ed Miliband at the other end". He subsequently apologised for the remark, saying he was "sincerely sorry" if anyone had been offended by the comment.[14]

if he ever does become leader I hope he keeps saying stuff like this

Cameron as worst post-war PM has been talked about (not so much on the thread), hardly been time for that, what with the economy and this most peculiar situ for the opposition.

I thought Corbyn would get on the ballot to run against a challenger. All the ballot means is that there would be a challenge.

tom's piece is worth reading if you haven't already, MDC
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/06/brexit-a-guide-to-britains-new-politics.html

L is for Literally the Worst: David Cameron is the worst post-war prime minister, a gambler without even the spine to bet his reputation (and the country’s economy) on something he believed in. The ruin of his reputation is a Brexit silver lining, but a very thin and unsatisfying one. [...] Each of Cameron’s moves, until the final, fatal referendum, was designed for short-term benefit  —  stave off a threat here, win a vote there. But because he seemed to have no strategic sense, each raised the stakes a little higher.

xp well Cameron fucked a dead pig so that would still leave him a fighting chance

https://twitter.com/cavalorn/status/747513678271025152

turning to the actual architects of this whole calamitous shitshow for a second

can johnson be beaten in a tory leadership election?

http://www.politico.eu/article/inside-account-of-labour-mps-attacks-on-jeremy-corbyn-shadow-cabinet-resignations-brexit/

I think it's possible. There's an anyone-but-Johnson wing in the Remain camp that'll ensure that a heavyweight challenger gets on the ballot and gets some support. The key thing will be how the leave camp (which makes up the bulk of the membership and enough MPs to get one of them in the race) takes his tacit acknowledgment that he kind of still wants to be in the EU. A few of them, like Leadsome, seem to be repeating the line that we want access to European markets but without immigration, payments or regulation. This is transparently ridiculous though and Johnson will struggle to go into a campaign with that as his main promise. Anything less isn't what the Eurosceptics voted for and they might try to find someone who'll actually leave, if they can hold their nerve.

If i was him i wouldn't run. Let someone else take the heat and come in to replace them as the voice of reason that can play both sides when it all goes horribly wrong.

xp

I agree, but I don't think he can help himself. Hell, if he will lead a Leave campaign he doesn't believe in for power he's basically incontinent with desire.

Really depressing to read soref's posts about Corbyn having to go in order to serve the needs of a party of dogs like the current shit-the-beds of Labour.

meh, English politics as per

Lolle http://politi.co/28YubVO

imagine the paranoia when the bastards start talking to each other in foreign

It's still almost everyone else's second language though.

Did anyone see channel 4 news tonight? There was a German pundit on who was weighing up the French and German positions re the triggering of article 50 and he said "and Angela Merkel doesn't want to rush it because she will look like a prig" and then the interviewer, Matt Frei, told him off about his bad language having obviously misheard him.

Is there any way short of violence that rallies like the Corbyn-supporting one can prevent themselves being hijacked by SWP and other parties?

Went down to Parliament square tonight and yeah this was the most depressing thing about it, such a plethora of types there I wouldn't want to be associated with.

Not that it was depressing overall. Just odd, mostly.

I heard that tonight when someone shouted "Jeremy!" the entire SWP turned round saying "what?"

Boom boom.

A friend who was a union FTO assured me that the SWP only had 2000 actual members nationwide a few years back, and that was before the rape scandal

They just seem to be incredibly organised at turning up to every demonstration of any kind with a fuckton of banners and copies of the Socialist Worker