Which takes up way too little.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 20:17 (seven years ago) link
I think in Johnnie Cochran's eyes, O.J. was unjustly targeted by the LAPD. I only partly agree with that--I'm very much of the two seemingly contradictory truths view, that O.J. was 100% guilty and that the LAPD probably did try to embellish its case--but I don't think there's any doubt that Cochran saw, most egregiously in Fuhrman, a perfect case to underscore his life's work.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 20:22 (seven years ago) link
I think Cochrane was the only person who understood OJ and LA on a deep, cynical level and knew that the less this case was about murder the better. And he wanted to WIN. Prosecution wanted so badly to be right that they didn't realize they were playing small-ball til it was too late
― Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 20:41 (seven years ago) link
and i agree with clemenza
― Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 20:42 (seven years ago) link
You can get Cochran's whole closing statement online:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/cochranclose.html
Echoing VG's point--rather amazing, when you think about it--Cochran ends his statement with this: "That is Mark Fuhrman."
― clemenza, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 20:46 (seven years ago) link
Actually, the title says "Excerpts," so I can't be sure that was the way the statement ended. Going by the placement of the eliding asterisks, it would seem so.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 20:49 (seven years ago) link
LAPD's institutional racism and general ineptitude undermining an open-and-shut case should come as a surprise to no one (or at least no Americans)
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 20:50 (seven years ago) link
for real
― Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 21:03 (seven years ago) link
it is truly awful that such horrific murders were not afforded a non-circus trial, i feel terrible for nicole's family & the goldmans
but there's a tiny part of me that is (somewhat guiltily) impressed by cochrane's laser vision
― Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 21:07 (seven years ago) link
oj can eat a dick forever tho
― Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 6 July 2016 21:08 (seven years ago) link
finished part 4. i think cochran was drawn to the extraordinary opportunity this trial offered for both noble and ignoble reasons (fame on the one hand, and exposure for the very real issue of racial injustice on the other). he was a powerful orator and this was a once in a lifetime stage... idk, he comes across ambiguously to me in the end.
it's hard for me to believe anyone on the defense team sincerely believed oj was innocent though.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 22:07 (seven years ago) link
― Οὖτις, 6. juli 2016 22:50 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah, this is the main thing I took from it. It's presented as if this was kinda just the first time a black defendant had the money to really do a background check on the LAPD officers who was on the case, and - surprise! - there was a Mark Fuhrman. But there would always have been a Mark Fuhrman, because this is the LAPD. The institution was so racist, so rotten, that it could never have won the case cleanly.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 6 July 2016 23:06 (seven years ago) link
the florida years are so weird.
― Treeship, Thursday, 7 July 2016 02:37 (seven years ago) link
the las vegas thing, too, seemed like a subconscious attempt to face justice, like raskolnikov returning over and over to the scene of the crime or whatever. although if he was a true sociopath i guess he wouldn't feel that sort of guilt.
― Treeship, Thursday, 7 July 2016 04:09 (seven years ago) link
like all lawyers described as "high-powered," cochran was an egotist - he wanted the glory (and probably the intellectual challenge) of winning a high-profile case, and incidentally didn't mind the money, either. i don't know why we have to assume his "race card" defense was sincere (or why it would matter). btw by the mid-1990s cochran had long since displaced much of his civil-rights work for celebrity clients.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Thursday, 7 July 2016 04:46 (seven years ago) link
Finally finished the doc just now. an amazing piece of work and i tink ryan above puts his finger on it with larger socio-cultural forces become caught in the black hole of his orbit and then get explosively expressed through the whole sordid mess., and what Veg said about it feeling like a college course. the director's ability to field all these themes, and then explore them in depth via digressions throughout the documentary, was impressive, as well as his ability to tie all these threads together.
so many thoroughly sleazy and unlikable characters throughout the story. OJ's the key demon, but really: Furhman and his self-pity; Peter Hyams, who knew OJ did it but couldn't comprehend and hated african-americans' joy at the verdict; the defence team, who were only doing their job but seemed proud of how adeptly they did it; nearly everyone involved in the Florida and Vegas era...
― beer say hi to me (stevie), Sunday, 21 August 2016 13:30 (seven years ago) link
this is marvelous
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 12 November 2016 13:59 (seven years ago) link
the other amazing moment in part 3 is watching oj watch johnny cochrane roast darden in the sidebar abt the nword -- i think bailey or someone tries to whisper something to oj and he just is so intently focused on johnny & u can practically see his expression of like omg theres no way im getting found guilty
― johnny crunch
One of the year's best moments.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 12 November 2016 14:03 (seven years ago) link
In a sign of unity Trump should pardon OJ and hire him for his cabinet. Inner city physical fitness outreach?
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 November 2016 14:20 (seven years ago) link
xp of this year or 1995
― johnny crunch, Saturday, 12 November 2016 21:10 (seven years ago) link
never 4get
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/JR-HGfMcwLbhqxnx17cwJpbt8qY=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3638570/bushcampaignevent.0.jpg
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 12 November 2016 21:11 (seven years ago) link
BBC showing the full thing uncensored http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p04st1yv/oj-made-in-america-part-1
tore through the first 3 hours last night, god damn this is amazing. sheer disbelief that there are people who are prepared to go on tv in 2017 and be equivocal about the whole Rodney King thing.
i see it's up for an Oscar for Best Doc too.
― piscesx, Friday, 24 February 2017 11:06 (seven years ago) link
It's amazing.
By weird coincidence I've just started watching the drama starring Ross From Friends now its on Netflix, and it's very jarring, having devoured all of that fantastic, very sober, very dark and very depressing documentary, to see the same story retold with very little nuance or subtlety and with constant, distracting "No really look its the Kardashians! Off TV!" digressions. Not not annoying it - it's trashy but good at being trashy - but it leaves a funny taste in the mouth after that magnificent, epic documentary.
― Dysphagia Nutrition Solutions (stevie), Friday, 24 February 2017 13:35 (seven years ago) link
binged this via t0rr3ntz on a couple of long flights last summer and was totally blown away - will def watch again on iplayer, it's just masterfully put together.
― for sale: steve bannon waifu pillow (heavily soiled) (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 24 February 2017 14:18 (seven years ago) link
i kinda think it's better to watch the Murphy tv drama then follow up with the doc- it's like going from paint by numbers to an impressionist painting
i told a friend the doc is like taking an undergrad course in OJ
― Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 24 February 2017 17:20 (seven years ago) link
the doc is v v good
and agreed on the uncanny valley chasm between the doc and american crime story. my pop crit radar is completely off, though - i thought the show starring john travolta's forehead was r r bad, like R bad, like every time the camera would spin around the room 360 degrees and land back on that forehead i was more and more convinced that there was something subversively good going on, but the badness was unintentional. then it got all these award show nominations and people were taking it seriously and writing episode recaps and all that shit.
― Karl Malone, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:37 (seven years ago) link
i have not read this thread so apologies if a bunch of people here liked the show and i'm being a dick. judging by the general acclaim for the ross/travolta-forehead show, there's probably quite a few fans here too
― Karl Malone, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:39 (seven years ago) link
i enjoyed it but there's a weird disconnect between the actors who are intentionally camping it up and those who are unintentionally camping it up and those who are trying to be good and succeeding and those who are trying to be good and failing and those who aren't trying at all
― na (NA), Friday, 24 February 2017 17:50 (seven years ago) link
also the bizarreness of cuba gooding jr as the main character, yet barely appearing at all and barely saying anything (for good reason), compared to the fascinating portrait of oj you get from the doc.
― Karl Malone, Friday, 24 February 2017 18:08 (seven years ago) link
cuba's the weakest & most baffling part of the tv show to me. like, he's nowhere close to capturing oj physically or his charm or aggression ... it's just cuba pretending to be oj & it's dumb
i mean Sterling K Brown or Courtney Vance hit it out of the park & Cuba's playing fkn wiffle ball idgi
― Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 24 February 2017 20:01 (seven years ago) link
Yes! And also American race relations in the 60s-90s, and the sins of the LAPD, and corruption at the higher echelons of American society, and how celebrity seduces so thoroughly it can help those who possess it literally get away with murder.
― Dysphagia Nutrition Solutions (stevie), Monday, 27 February 2017 18:57 (seven years ago) link
And tbf American Crime Story is R R BAD, esp any scene involving the younger Kardashians, but Ross From Friends is not camping it up even slightly and is actually really affecting in his role as the guy who believes in the Juice and really wants to save him but often seems really critically inept.
― Dysphagia Nutrition Solutions (stevie), Monday, 27 February 2017 18:58 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=726Ujz_KOHE
― Number None, Monday, 27 February 2017 19:01 (seven years ago) link
Cuba's nothing performance actually makes People v OJ fit alongside the doc a bit better. The show is about the lawyers and the people surrounding the case, while the doc takes a deep deep dive into OJ himself. They complement each other.
― neva missa lost, wednesday nights on abc (voodoo chili), Monday, 27 February 2017 19:01 (seven years ago) link
good point
― Flamenco Drop (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 27 February 2017 20:27 (seven years ago) link
Fuhrman stuff; pretty mindblowing. had no knowledge of him before.
― piscesx, Monday, 27 February 2017 20:45 (seven years ago) link
Cataclysmic, as I remember the Fuhrman tapes; split the trial into before and after.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 00:25 (seven years ago) link
not surprising that he's still a racist shithead, saying the lapd should have just choked rodney king
― Einstein, Kazanga, Sitar (abanana), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 00:47 (seven years ago) link
Halfway through a rewatch. Not something that most viewers will care about, but I wish they spent a bit more time on his two years with the 49ers--at the very least, some details as to how he ended up there. The film has him retiring before you even know he's playing for San Francisco.
Not too many people in this who come across worse than Roy Firestone.
― clemenza, Sunday, 21 May 2017 20:58 (seven years ago) link
http://media.cleveland.com/sports_impact/photo/african-american-athletes-at-news-conference-af400c2cb31b07a9.jpg
This is the "Ali Summit" that part 1 delves into. (Simpson declined.) I felt dumb because I didn't know any of the athletes in the second row, but turns out they're all NFL players, and I'm not football fan. Nobody else besides Russell from the NBA, nobody at all from MLB. (Flood or Gibson would have been my best bet.)
― clemenza, Sunday, 21 May 2017 21:12 (seven years ago) link
Watched the first 3 hrs of Made in America last night. It's pretty good, generally, but I thought it was odd that while there was room for speculating that OJ's dad being gay was a key to his psychology (plausible but hardly proven), there was no real bg on Nicole Brown's family and youth (perhaps later?).
The vomitorious Roy Firestone interview is the ideal of all toadying entertainment 'journalism.'
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 May 2017 15:39 (seven years ago) link
Nobody else besides Russell from the NBA
uh isn't that Kareem at lower right
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 30 May 2017 15:57 (seven years ago) link
it is, then called Lew Alcindor
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 May 2017 16:01 (seven years ago) link
was he at UCLA/not in the NBA at that point?
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 30 May 2017 16:09 (seven years ago) link
yes, didn't graduate and enter NBA til '69
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 30 May 2017 16:11 (seven years ago) link
ah my bad. I can't even keep the details straight on the only athlete I know anything about lol
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 30 May 2017 16:16 (seven years ago) link
I knew Kareem, Οὖτις--the photo was in '67, pre-NBA. He's the only guy in the photo not focused on whatever everyone else is looking at just out of frame to the left.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 30 May 2017 22:11 (seven years ago) link
on part 4 of Made in America. this is an excellent documentary.
gonna entertaining this was the moment the news decided, "fuck it, let's just run w sensationalism from now on forever"
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 25 June 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link
I know the trial is THE major part of any story on OJ Simpson, but from a purely dramatic viewpoint, it's really not the climax
Fred B wrong as usual
As someone who don't remember anything about the case, which really didn't make sense as a kid in Denmark
i was in high school. we watched his getaway footage while in class. we stopped class to watch the final verdict.
it's impossible to understate how much coverage this trial got. maybe it doesn't seem all that special in an era of 24/7 news, but i feel like this was the first real taste of that, where "informative" news and reality tv intersect.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 25 June 2017 15:41 (six years ago) link
i think i talked abt this upthread or on the tv show thread maybe
it got a lot of coverage in Australia but I had no context for who OJ was except vaguely knowing he was the actor from Naked Gun
so at the time of the chase it seemed weird that Americans were covering the Bronco "chase" so intensely & then the verdict was all over the news all the time (no 24/7 courtroom coverage but regular updates). I understood that I was *supposed* to be fascinated because of the hype. My friends at college would talk about a lot & I'd nod along but silently I'd be like "ok but I still don't get who this guy is or why it's such a big deal"
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 25 June 2017 18:00 (six years ago) link