Paris under Attack - November 13 2015 (also Munich, July 2016)

there should probably be a rolling terrorism thread or something at this point, maybe there is and i don't know about it

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MORE: Mayor of Nice, France says in tweet that dozens of people killed in apparent attack

was thinking the same thing about a rolling thread at this point

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nice-france-lockdown-amid-fears-215011160.html?ref=gs

Reports are coming in of an attack on July 14 celebrators in Nice, France. Gunfire and a car driving into a crowd at the Promenade des Anglais have been reported

what is it about France that makes it such a vulnerable, repeat target as opposed to, say, Germany

car driven into a crowd for tonight's fireworks

it just goes on

It was a truck or a lorry by the sound of things. Af least 100 injured and 30 dead, reportedly. Including the driver of the vehicle.

can't maintain territory, shifting to targeted attacks abroad - makes sense

Just saw part of a video on Twitter. Wish I hadn't.

I wish these people at least had a list of demands, somehow it would make the horror and cruelty feel less random and somehow eventually ultimately handleable

i know this sounds stupid + is not the most immediate concern right now, but, kind of wrt terrorism over the past twenty years: is there any discursive attempt being made to address the legitimacy of attacks targeting random + unspecifiable civilians? my knowledge is insufficient here but it seems like such a heavy toll is accumulating under such a tenuous reading of the koran; i know there are recent kind of Policy differences between AQ & ISIS re: muslims caught in attacks but it is so devastating to watch this happen under the incredibly thin logic involved, given that it seems to attempt to align itself with an authoritative mandate.

no need to address this but god poor france

oh ISIS has demands all right

increasingly I take the dimly cynical view that this is just what you get when we collectively rendered battlefield warfare obsolete. With terrorist tactics (really the only "military" response available to those inclined to violence as a political tool) the suffering/casualties etc. just get randomized and dispersed throughout the populace, rather than primarily limited to men on the battlefield. (Obviously things have been this way for awhile now)

xp

There appears to be an immediate assumption that this was a terrorist attack rather than an individual losing control or having some kind of a breakdown. Hardly surprising given the backdrop of the past 18 months but still.

I suppose it depends on whether or not there was gunfire.

authoritative mandate

? From who? There is no central authority in Islam and vast majority of Muslims do not condone attacks on random civilians, much less Muslim civilians/during Ramadan etc.

in terms of justification it's just seen as an ongoing war, for every terrorist attack they would point to some western military action in the middle east etc.

Wassim Bouhlel, a Nice native who spoke to the AP near Nice’s Promenade du Paillon, said that he saw a truck drive into the crowd and then witnessed the man emerge with a gun and start shooting.

per Globe and Mail.

I feel already so drained by these kinds of things, I don't know how to react anymore.

I"m worried it is becoming like in Brazil (the film) where terrorist attacks are really just things that happens like the weather or you cousin getting a divorce.

Ah okay, the reports I was watching seemed uncertain whether it was gunfire or fireworks going off very nearby.

French media saying 60 dead

terrorist attacks are really just things that happens like the weather or you cousin getting a divorce.

seems sadly inevitable as long as there are people willing to commit suicide attacks. there's really no way to stop this stuff no matter how extensive or intrusive a techno-police state gets. weapons and crowds are everywhere.

Ah okay, the reports I was watching seemed uncertain whether it was gunfire or fireworks going off very nearby.

― Matt DC, Thursday, July 14, 2016 6:27 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I mean, it's one witness.

What is the logic here? Like after the Euros are finished there will be complacency?

these guys are obviously well beyond logic

driver has been neutralised.

I feel already so drained by these kinds of things, I don't know how to react anymore.

Yeah this. Heartaching dullness is all i can muster which is an awful realisation in itself

Oh jesus my roommate (well, ex-roommate but still friend) just flew home to France like three days ago. He's from Lyon so he probably wasn't in Nice but FUCK.

I suppose the days of directly attributable attacks are long gone. The IRA codeword system for claiming responsibility seems quaint now.

The old IRA seem like fucking benevolent babysitters by comparison.

Apparently the Eiffel Tower is on fire

before everyone freaks out apparently it was a fireworks truck accident, crazily enough

Okay he tweeted. Phew.

wait waht

Police are keen to stress that there is nothing to worry about and that the accidental fire close to the Tower is being dealt with.

73 dead

damn

before everyone freaks out apparently it was a fireworks truck accident, crazily enough

where are you seeing this?

Eiffel Tower apparently fireworks truck. Nice, that was apparently Isis. Over 60 dead. This is absolutely horrifying for all sorts of reasons. At least guns can be regulated, but there was nothing to stop people from driving trucks into crowds.

i saw the fireworks truck thing on twitter.

At least guns can be regulated

ISIS doesn't seem to have much problem getting guns into France

what is it about France that makes it such a vulnerable, repeat target as opposed to, say, Germany

― Οὖτις, Thursday, July 14, 2016 9:58 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think it has more to do with France having a very large, very pissed off Muslim population thats been treated like shit for decades?

I hate that feeling when it's been a few weeks or months since a terrorist attack and you start to feel like something is bound to happen soon...and that interim seems to be getting shorter and shorter...

Colonial heritage of Maghreb is fertile ground, yes. Those countries have been suffering of barbarism as well.

Guns/weapons are not very well regulated in France

Jesus. Know Nice well. Flying there for summer holiday in 10 days.

https://francais.rt.com/france/23713-incendie-artifice-tour-eiffel

L'incident est purement technique, a indiqué la préfecture et n'a donc aucun lien avec les attaques de Nice, survenues le même jour.

right, I'm sure that's a contributing factor - but don't UK and Germany also have (admittedly smaller) disgruntled Muslim populations? And haven't most/all of the French attackers not been immigrants but rather people who traveled there specifically for the purpose of committing attacks?

xp

Yeah Belgium, etc.. maybe the Germans are more organized? France is a more sympathetic target to their western audience?

I do get that as a colonial power France is a target of deep historical significance (but of course, so is Britain)

xp

honestly part of me is inclined to suspect that France, while being terrible at integrating their Muslim population, is also just shitty/sloppy at law enforcement to a degree that isn't the case in the UK or Germany

I guess France has also been actively engaged in Syria and Africa lately and seen as more of a 'crusader' state..