Chronicles of Narnia - POLL

Prince Caspian is better than the Silver Chair, which is irritating and not very good

― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), T

respectowiggle

i really like silver chair: puddleglum is a good character to have in a kid's book i think

anything would be a letdown after Dawn Treader though

dawn treader has too much aslan in it

courage, dear heart

the Emerald Witch plucking at her koto surrounded by clouds of incense = so metal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh55SzhLkmc

hoping there’s a metal band called bism

also mudfilth

I love fantasy books where people walk for ages (and maybe get lost). The best bits of Lord of the Rings are them walking.

Prince Caspian is better than the Silver Chair, which is irritating and not very good

― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), T

respectowiggle

This is 90% of why Fellowship is the best. It’s basically a travelogue of a long walk without a ton of other plot going on.

― The land of dreams and endless remorse (hardcore dilettante),

*cough* The Silver Chair: the trek through Ettinsmoor, etc.

in the silver chair it bothered me all out of proportion that scrubb didn't get to say hi to the elderly caspian

also: repectabiggle

amidst all the bad takes in this revive, and they're not few, the idea that fotr lacks plot is a real doozy

we have a good thread where we do in fairness surmise that it is a book about walking in the main so points for that

mark otm about why not listen to lucy, the portrayal of the character in the british tv tltwatw in the nineties was shockingly annoying and very accurate

we just finished the horse and his boy. Aslan saved the boy so the Aslantians would win the war years later. Main kid(s) always become rich at the end, in one world or another.

the bolt of Tash falls from above

― mookieproof, Wednesday, August 3, 2011 9:56 PM (twelve years ago)

the bolt of tash falls from above

― mookieproof, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 3:56 AM (eight months ago)

sorry for duplication, but i just wanted to point out that i was otm

amidst all the bad takes in this revive, and they're not few, the idea that fotr lacks plot is a real doozy

"Lack" implies it's the worse for it, though.

Silver Chair and Dawntreader are my absolute favourites. It makes me a little sad that KIDS TODAY don't read these books. I loved them so much. I still do. I don't care if CS Lewis was trying to indoctrinate me into Christianity by stealth. It's not like he did a very good job of it.

. It makes me a little sad that KIDS TODAY don't read these books.

They don't?

Cobbles and kettledrums!

i really like silver chair: puddleglum is a good character to have in a kid's book i think

They don't?

I might be extrapolating a bit from my own experience, but no, none of the younger readers in my orbit have ever mentioned the Narnia books. My sister-in-law, bless her, tried to get my niece interested in TLTWATW for my sake when she was the right age, but no, absolutely no interest. Which suggests to me that they're not on the radar of kids that age at all.

last battle is next and my son is psyched “because all the OGs will be there”

Come further up, come further in!

the Narnia boxed set is sold at Costco next to the Dogman and Wimpy Kids, so I'd guess they are still popular in the US.

I like Shasta (his highness, Corn) and Aravis in A Horse and His Boy more than the other kids. They risked more to earn their happy outcomes. I like Aslan the war-fixer less. Aslan is coolest when a mysterious and intimidating creator in Magician's nephew. He is always showing up in Horse Boy, scratching little kids. It feels like Narnia's own "when there was one set of footprints, that's when Aslan carried you".

the godly manifestation of corporal punishment

courage, dear heart

Aslan's constant meddling is a very pagan sort of behavior for a deity, I think Lewis ultimately wrote these books because he wanted kids to abandon Christianity when Jesus failed to get involved in their lives in any obvious way. Take up with ancient Greek gods, he is saying, there's fauns and talking animals and the gods are all up in your business all the time.

That…is a take

yeah, Bree says "he's probably not really a lion. he's beyond our understanding, a mystery." Then he is exactly a lion that turns people into donkeys for joeks.

Lewis had to have known he was setting Christianity up for failure in his child audience by having Aslan take such an active and explicit role in the Narnian protagonists' lives, I choose to believe it was intentional

lol. I feel the same about the ending of TLB. “Oh cool we’re in heaven…But we all died horribly in a train crash? What???”

what's weird about it?

The stuff with the doorframe was weird (and cool).

I guess the stuff of the real-Narnia-inside-the-real-Narnia is Lewis the amateur Platonist addressing ideal forms or some shit

Mostly a Netflix higher up interview here:

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/greta-gerwig-narnia-plans-netflix-1235785562/

But there is this:

Q I want to ask you about some upcoming films. You have Greta Gerwig adapting C.S. Lewis’ Narnia books. Why did you decide to make that deal? What about her as a filmmaker made you feel like that was a good fit with that material?

A Greta’s been a friend for a while. Her husband, Noah Baumbach, we’re close to, we’ve made I think three films. We’re starting another one. We have a big deal with them. If you don’t know her, she’s truly one of the greatest people, not an artist, but a human being. She’s just got this great soul. When we had 2019’s ‘Marriage Story’ and she had ‘Little Women,’ we all spent quite a bit of time on the awards trail together at dinners.

Gerwig grew up in a Christian background. The C.S. Lewis books are very much based in Christianity. And so we just started talking about it. And like I said earlier, we don’t have IP, so when we had the opportunity to license those books or the Roald Dahl Co. we’ve jumped at it, to have stories that people recognize and the ability to tell those stories. So it was just a great opportunity and I’m so thrilled that she’s working on it with us and I’m just thrilled to be in business with her. And she’s just an incredible talent.

Q Is she writing many of these adaptations? What is her commitment to this?

A Obviously, ‘The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe’ is kind of the preeminent one, but there’s such an interesting narrative form to the Narnia series if you read all of them. And so that’s what she’s working on now with producer Amy Pascal and trying to figure out how they can break the whole arc of all of it.

i would def sign up for a gerwig-directed 'the magician's nephew'

love gerwig and no shade but very funny to answer "What about her as a filmmaker made you feel like that was a good fit with that material?" with "she's really cool and I like to hang out with her"

Wild takes from hazel!

I’m an “read these in order of publication” hardliner, or at the very least read TMN second last (or even entirely last), stylistically it is written like a flashback, not an exposition.

TLB is the best-written of all of them, the most intensely plotted and sinister, Shift is one of my favourite characters. As a kid I didn’t pick up on the racism but that Susan stuff was really messed up

What is way worse than TLB tho is all the responses to it— specifically the final volume of His Dark Materials, which is way more fucked up and awful than anything Pullman was attempting to “correct”

I’m a “read these in order of publication” hardliner

thats right

It's interesting to see the Narnia books lose the context of mid-20th century British kid's literature, where it was almost required to write books where absolutely nothing happened... in comparison, Price Caspian is a nonstop rollercoaster

f.hazel i love you but that is complete nonsense

let's not pretend the canonical British children's book in 1950 isn't "child sent to country house during war and befriends ghost child, decides eccentric grandparent is all right after all, goes home"

16 “canonic” british authors active 40s-60s who don’t fit that template

joan aiken
pauline clarke
roald dahl
leon garfield
alan garner
eric linklater
mary norton
sheena porter
arthur ransome
ian serraillier
catherine storr
rosemary sutcliffe
john rowe townsend
geoffrey trease
henry treece
t.h.white

(excluding john christopher and peter dickinson as they don’t start till the late 60s so count more as a bookend)

2 who kinda do fit that template

lucy m. boston (this is who you mainly have in mind guess)
philippa pearce (not very like boston, and also just one book of several not in template)

I never read the flambards books, maybe they fit too

none of them count

(I'm being silly, you're right of course)

lol yes, i just got into it bcz i think it's an interesting issue! CSL *does* kinda stick out in this company, i think his sensibility was formed decades before most of those other guys

(tolk's too, though he's always a bit of a special case) (like denys watkins-pitchford didn't spend 20 years proving the the little grey men with not one but three languages alphabets and names of months etc)

This thread revive lead me to read the Wiki entry on Pauline Baynes. Didn't know before that Lewis (who does not come out of this well) privately expressed severe reservations about her work, particularly in a letter to Dorothy L Sayers:

Lewis gave his fullest account of his opinion of Baynes in a letter that he wrote to his friend Dorothy L. Sayers on 5 August 1955. "The main trouble about Pauline B. is [...] her total ignorance of animal anatomy. In the v. last book [the fifth in the series] she has at last learned how to draw a horse. I have always had serious reservations about her [...]. But she had merits (her botanical forms are lovely), she needed the work (old mother to support, I think), and worst of all she is such a timid creature, so 'easily put down' that criticism cd. only be hinted [...]. At any real reprimand she'd have thrown up the job, not in a huff but in sheer, downright, unresenting, pusillanimous dejection. She is quite a good artist on a certain formal-fantastic level (did Tolkien's Farmer Giles far better than my books) but has no interest in matter – how boats are rowed, or bows shot with, or feet planted, or fists clenched. Arabesque is really her vocation."

Hideous sexism aside, I ... sort of agree with Lewis - or rather, I really like her colour cover paintings, but find her interior line drawings a bit stiff and really quite unattractive.

it's odd given the mode of baynes's illustrations for farmer giles of ham -- which are witty and stylised and pull in the bayeux tapestry and the marginalia of illuminated manuscripts, and medieval illustration generally, and in 1948 she's drawing horses (there are plenty in and around ham) perfectly well -- that she was then bundled into an approach that worked much less well for her in the CSL books (1950-56)? like the image of the children all tumbling out of the wardrobe at the end of tLtWatW: it's inept goofiness is actually kind of engaging, but it's objectively not good realism!!

a book baynes worked on that i loooove is amabel williams-ellis's* fairytales of the british isles (1960)

meet beelzebub!
https://www.paulinebaynes.com/_gallery_images/fiomiz57w95o.jpg

*married to the architect who designed portmeirion

really good revive this! and tho mark is obv absolutely right, i totally saw where f.hazel was coming from, and I was trying to work out why.

I think in my v uncategorised childhood mind (not recognising these come from different periods and strands), Tom's Midnight Garden, The Secret Garden, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, The Five Children and It, The Box of Delights and The Weirdstone of Brisingamen (and a number of others eg Over Sea, Under Stone) were quite similar. all involve displacement through illness, war, parental absence and the discovery of magic of some form (the form is important though: myth, ghosts, ancient immanent magic.

The city/pastoral division is probably important (puck and a midsummer night's dream is really not very far away in some of these). Purely mechanically it gives the child or children somewhere to explore and time on your hands to do it.