Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

haha i actually like that last picture of hillary, she's like "im sorry ron but my more interesting and cool friend just walked in and i want to talk to them now"

― get a long, little doggy (m bison), Sunday, March 27, 2016 12:04 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think there is something really endearing about pictures of young hillary. i'm a bernie supporter, but i like hrc OK as a personality and political figure. my main issue with her is her hawkishness. bill always struck me as a creep/borderline sociopath, but i don't feel that way about her at all.

the word on her seems to be she is a cynic who will do whatever it takes for power. i don't think that's true. even her interventionist tendencies -- like her pushing to back up the rebels in libya -- seem to be borne of idealism if anything. she may claim kissinger as a friend but i don't think she is machiavellian and ruthless the way he was. she seems like someone who essentially believes in government as an instrument for positive change. she's spent her whole life learning the rules of the game to be able to play it effectively. her issue this election is that tons and tons of voters think the game is rigged and that her ability to win the support of elites makes her a pawn. i agree with bernie and the others who think she is too compromised to be effective, but i can understand why she doesn't feel that way. she thinks these are just the way things are done: this is the game, these are the rules

no the pic with Kissinger is the incriminating one.

If one identifies as a leftist who is only a registered Democrat to paticipate in meaningful elections (in my case NY primaries at the city and state level), obviously the Clintons and their entire epochal shift of their party to primarily serve the pro-conglomerate warmaking right makes one's skin crawl, and while my electoral role in November is utterly meaningless, I haven't and wouldn't vote for either cretin ever for anything, not in Ohio or Florida either. This sophistry about "a vote for/not for _____ is REALLY a vote for _____" is the worst cable-carnival garbage, go peddle it there.

but i can understand why she doesn't feel that way

You and I have no idea what she "feels" other than wanting to win an election, and it's 100% irrelevant.

armchair psychoanalysis of a person whose life has borne absolutely no resemblance to ours for 40 years, always a winner

i guess the age-old question to all of our centrist friends, including many on this board, is that if this is "not the time" to be nominating a real lefty

1972

yeah bcz Trump, Cruz or God knows who is in the same political catbird seat as a popular incumbent president

Every time I see Bernie and the bird--so perfect in the way it reinforces the idea of Sanders as kindly and wise--I get a vision of Clinton excoriating her staff behind closed doors: "Where's our bird? What the fuck am I paying you people for?"

Bill's hair looks like it came off of a raccoon

― Neanderthal, Saturday, March 26, 2016

John Updike: clinton's hair "closely modeled on the opossum fur of his beloved Arkansas" and appears to be "composed of an unidentifiable salt-and-pepper substance, like spill-proof carpeting."

omg

hey fb came up with something timely re Easter 1916

https://michaelgreenwell.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/quote-don-t-be-practical-in-politics-to-be-practical-in-that-sense-means-that-you-have-schooled-james-connolly-110-30-95.jpg

I've a vague memory of Greil Marcus citing Updike's passage as an example of Beltway hate of the Clintons.

and then someone told Greil that Updike didn't dwell in the Beltway

what a ass

read the essay, toots

This was at the height of impeachment fever. As Didion hinted in her "Vichy Washington," Clinton was getting impeached for the wrong reasons.

Every day above ground not reading Greil Marcus is a good day.

Ralph Nader:

Democrats falsely accused my campaign of fraud in state after state. In Pennsylvania, they forced us off the ballot after challenging more than 30,000 signatures on spurious technical grounds. My running mate, Peter Camejo, and I were ordered to pay more than $81,000 in litigation costs the plaintiffs, a group of Democratic voters, said they incurred. In an effort to collect, their law firm, Reed Smith ,which the DNC also hired in that cycle, froze my personal accounts at several banks for eight years. A criminal prosecution by the state attorney general later revealed that Pennsylvania House Democrats had, illegally at taxpayer expense, prepared the complaints against our campaign, and several people were convicted of related felonies....

By running as a Democrat, Sanders declined to become a complete political masochist, and he avoided exposing his campaign to immediate annihilation by partisan hacks. Because if he had run as an independent, he would have faced only one question daily in the media, as I did: “Do you see yourself as a spoiler?” The implication being, of course, that he had no chance of winning. His popular agenda would have been totally ignored by a horse-race-obsessed mass media, which would have latched on instead to a narrative in which Sanders was unfairly hurting Hillary Clinton’s chances against whichever Republican wound up with the other major-party nomination, as if any Democrat is automatically entitled to the votes of progressives.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/03/25/ralph-nader-why-bernie-sanders-was-right-to-run-as-a-democrat/

If one identifies as a leftist who is only a registered Democrat to paticipate in meaningful elections (in my case NY primaries at the city and state level), obviously the Clintons and their entire epochal shift of their party to primarily serve the pro-conglomerate warmaking right makes one's skin crawl, and while my electoral role in November is utterly meaningless, I haven't and wouldn't vote for either cretin ever for anything, not in Ohio or Florida either.

Cuz you have the privilege -- as usual in your case -- of living in a state that hasn't gone red since 1984. Because as usual you read nothing that contradicts or adds nuance to your adolescent conception of American politics, a vote for a GOP candidate means installing hacks into our regulatory and administrative agencies that don't believe in federal responsibility for the environment, clean water, or safe reproductive care. It would mean deciding not to enforce laws you pretend to care about. It would mean bringing the lovely experiments taking place at the state level to the federal government and inflicting them on the rest of us. I know you claim you won't get fooled again, but you're pretending that the kind of conservative crackpot you saw in 1980 and 1994 is no different than what we see in 2016. It isn't that these neo-nihilists weren't detectable in those years; it's that in 2016 the nihilism is perfected.

As for me, I couldn't vote in Florida's closed primaries. Miami Dade County tends to go blue, but if statewide polls look grim then I'll vote for the repugnant Clinton because I expect her not to nominate or appoint functionaries whose mission is to eviscerate the regulatory state under which we've lived since the Teddy Roosevelt administration.

See? And I didn't once mention the Supreme Court.

I like this photo of two possible future presidents. I know which one I'd do vodka shots with.

http://i.imgur.com/A1qLu8Q.jpg

Because as usual you read nothing that contradicts or adds nuance to your adolescent conception of American politics, a vote for a GOP candidate means installing hacks into our regulatory and administrative agencies that don't believe in federal responsibility for the environment, clean water, or safe reproductive care.

The first half of this sentence has nothing to do with the second.

I'm not voting GOP. Go piss on someone who deserves it.

I'm not voting GOP.

Congratulations; here's your fuckin' robe and halo.

everyone should vote how they want to btw

adolescent conception

This counts as the "be an ADULT" argument, i collect $200

誤訳侮辱, you're definitely a music critic

i don't see how hillary can possibly win this thing without the bitter shitty film-critic vote. morbz, if i promise i don't give a fuck who you vote for or what you think about anything ever will you promise to stop making the same post over and over again as though there were still posters on ilx who weren't tired of your self-righteous broken record ignoramus shtick?

誤訳侮辱, you're definitely a music critic

20 years in the game this November. What's your point?

i'm not a film critic

xp

"hey guys, i'm an old dude who lives in NY with real important opinions about how bad politicians are. watch me state them repeatedly interspersed w/ brief unfulfilled threats to stop posting."

is this the part of the thread where we state plain facts as if they are inherently insults

xxxxxpost

As much as I don't agree with Morbz on various things, I always enjoy his contributions to these conversations, just as alternate POVs. Keeps life interesting. Given the history of conflict on this forum - back circa 2001 shit got so vicious that I suspect fistfights would've erupted had some posters been in the same physical space - it's fascinating that so many of y'all (and I love all of you, don't get anything twisted) get so bent outta shape by the Dr.

aw c'mon he enjoys the tug of war too, he creates the needed equilibrium to remind everybody else we're all (mostly) on the same side.

nope

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/jmFpJHLB03IcL63lT_g1Uw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztxPTg1/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2016-03-24/10848b90-f1fd-11e5-b662-6bf9657049d9_cespedesball.gif

I'm not voting GOP.

Didn't say you were. But you mentioned nothing about turnout.

Keeps life interesting. Given the history of conflict on this forum - back circa 2001 shit got so vicious that I suspect fistfights would've erupted had some posters been in the same physical space - it's fascinating that so many of y'all (and I love all of you, don't get anything twisted) get so bent outta shape by the Dr.

I still do! I'd tell him the same thing should we ever meet. He's the one telling me whom to piss on.

I haven't and wouldn't vote for either cretin ever for anything, not in Ohio or Florida either. This sophistry about "a vote for/not for _____ is REALLY a vote for _____" is the worst cable-carnival garbage

This is otmfm (as is Morbs itt).

i've been waiting for Nader to chime in. i remember him getting refused entry into Democratic debates even though he had a ticket. like the police showed up and told him he would be arrested and all.

Morbs otm as usual.

back circa 2001 shit got so vicious that I suspect fistfights would've erupted had some posters been in the same physical space

link plz

I voted for Nader in 2004, no regrets.

"i've been waiting for Nader to chime in. i remember him getting refused entry into Democratic debates even though he had a ticket."

Was the National debates he was refused entry from.

ok then he was refused entry to the Democratic-Republican debates

As much as I don't agree with Morbz on various things, I always enjoy his contributions to these conversations, just as alternate POVs. Keeps life interestin

Morbz is classic, he should run for President next time round.

With gabbnebb as veep

... though if a bird landed on his podium during a speech he'd probably bite its head off. (xp)

adolescent conception

This counts as the "be an ADULT" argument, i collect $200

LOL, from the fucko who told people to "put on their pajamas" in the fucking Batman movie thread, don't you even ever get bored with yourself?

adult in the cinema, child at the ballot box - this is what democracy looks like

Hey guys I'm just returning from eight months of mission work in Angola and trying to get caught up. Figured I'd start here but this page takes sooooooo long to load now, using my bookmark.

So what's happening? I mean I'm sure Jeb is way out in front w/ delegates...just please please please just tell me there's no chance (nightmare scenario) Scott Walker gets nominated. On the other hand that would p spell the end of the Republican party.

It's pretty much down to Heidi Cruz and Melania Trump at this point.

Walker was fatally stabbed by some goons later linked to the Perry campaign (though I'm not sure we ever got real confirmation of that) which took him out too; there were some kinda crazy and chaotic debates which is why the threads are so long but the short version is that Jim Gilmore, barring some really unlikely developments, is sailing to the nom. I can't remember though, who was Jeb?

Hmm Gilmore, interesting. A year for dark horses then.

Heidi Cruz, Melanoma Trump....these are rank-and-file house members I guess? Politics is so unpredictable.

Btw though: kinda big night for Sanders right? I mean he was projected to win those states (though I remember rumblings about how the HI dem machine would work in Clinton's favor), but I don't have a sense of by how much he was expected to win. Only WA is really delegate-rich but I'd be interested to see thoughtful writing on those contests, their demographics, etc.

BERNIE Sanders?

Also—last question— caught a few minutes of Gwen Ifill on PBS News Hour... the little box above her shoulder said "Election 2016" but she was talking about, like, Guy Fieri's penis or something?

xp It was a big night, Sanders definitely overperformed.

Washington, the largest prize Saturday with 101 delegates in play, was a vital state for Mr. Sanders, whose prospects of capturing the nomination dimmed after double-digit losses to Mrs. Clinton across the South and weak showings in delegate-rich Ohio, Florida and North Carolina this month. As of Saturday evening, Mrs. Clinton had roughly 280 more pledged delegates, who are awarded based on voting, and 440 more superdelegates — party leaders and elected officials — than Mr. Sanders.

WI comes next which I think he'll win, but behind still over 200 delegates Sanders needs wins in upcoming states like NY (4/19, Hill +48 in latest Emerson poll), PA + MD (4/26, Hill +25 and +33) and CA + NJ (6/7). California looks winnable but none of the other ones do and while there are other more Bernie favorable states during this time period they're all tiny and these states are all huge. Unless my heart is right and the bird event means that his presidency is divinely ordained, I still don't see it happening. I was thinking before yesterday that if he made her non-viable in one or more of yesterday's states I might've felt that indicated a more dramatic reversal but just overperforming his polls in these places isn't sufficient. imho.