Because It's 2016: Canadian Politics in Sunnier Days

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canada-now-the-second-biggest-arms-exporter-to-middle-east-data-show/article30459788/

utterly disgusted by this

― F♯ A♯ (∞), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 12:11 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sunny ways

― The Nickelbackean Ethics (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 15 June 2016 12:37 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lol @

The Trudeau government, asked whether it took pride in Canada’s expanded role as a weapons seller and would feature this achievement in trade promotion materials, referred the questions to a department of Global Affairs bureaucrat.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClL65WPWIAAsLTP.jpg

dear britain

we'll take carney back now

how funny it has been to be a model to Leavers for a few weeks.

Wait, who was a model?

Canada, according to Boris Johnson

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/11/boris-johnson-on-brexit-we-can-be-like-canada

Ah. Wasn't following that as closely as I probably should have. Interesting.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bccla-assisted-dying-legislation-1.3654220

So the assisted dying legislation is being challenged, as it obviously was going to be because it only provides for a much narrower application than in the Carter decision.

suck it, harper:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/northern-gateway-pipeline-approval-overturned-1.3659561

yerrrr

still my fave campaign ever

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/william_s._burroughs_endorses_mr_peanut

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-commentary/if-were-renegotiating-nafta-lets-be-ready-to-walk-away/article31609876/

i cannot believe the amount of people in the us that believe nafta is actually beneficial for everyone in its current form

i was taking a supply chain management course recently and i had to bite my tongue quite a few times because they just glossed over major flaws as if they didn't even exist

I'm inclined to agree with a lot of that but I'm not sure this is true:

Whoever wins November’s presidential election, Washington will likely push to renegotiate NAFTA or even scrap it.

En attente of an english article:

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201610/28/01-5035205-le-front-national-du-quebec-prend-forme.php

A FN version coming up in Quebec, t'was a matter of time. Pleasantly surprised it didn't occur before.

Pour l'heure, le parti compte une cinquantaine de membres.

At least there's that.

uh, I mean, at least that's all there is.

Because the PQ wasn't racist enough?

Il ne souhaite pas pour autant expulser tous les musulmans du Québec, seulement ceux qui refuseront de « s'intégrer » à leur société d'accueil.

At least he's not Idi Amin?

In other news, the CETA is about to be ratified, which I still don't know what to think about.

I don't either. I guess I was never too strongly opposed to it in broad terms because, if we're going to be a free-trading sort of country, at least we should trade more with non-US First World countries, and ones that at least try to have labour and environmental standards? I honestly don't know enough about the details of all the trade agreements we sign, though. I was a weird enough kid that I can remember when i) the Liberals were the anti-free trade party and ii) we held elections before signing free trade deals.

http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/print-cover-full/print-covers/20161029_cuk400.jpg

I read the article. A lot of things that were good about Canada are still good, and the sweeping wave of xenophobia hasn't really caught on in Canada as it has in much of the West, but if the main reason why JT is preferable to HRC is that she is less gung-ho about free trade deals (at least in her 'public positions'), I'm not feeling that bullish. The Trudeau tax plan has been discussed a lot on this thread; it does more for upper-mid earners than anyone else. The American right has been right of the Canadian right for decades, and has mostly gone off the deep end into sheer insanity some time ago, but the current American left seems further left than the Canadian left (which feels new). Mainstream Democrats are at least taking precarious employment seriously, unlike Trudeau and his finance minster, are more willing to (actually) tax the wealthy, are even entertaining the idea of free tuition.

Oh, the tax plan was discussed on the previous thread: Canadian Politics Thread

Or here: http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/the-truth-about-justin-trudeaus-tax-cuts/

if the main reason why JT is preferable to HRC is that she is less gung-ho about free trade deals

well, keep in mind that there is absolutely nothing the economist hates more than protectionism

Idk if the Liberal Party should really be considered the left but I'm not really convinced that the NDP is better or further left on most of those issues and am not sure I even know what they stand for at this point. I guess that's the other weird thing about Canadian politics: it really feels a bit like a one-party state atm, with an interim leader for the CPC and a lame-duck leader for the NDP.

sorry, this is not related to canadian politics, but there is no thread for canadian expats in the usa (there aren't enough of us stateside to warrant a thread, i think?)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-election/canadian-expats-reflect-on-the-ugly-us-presidential-race/article32572248/

it was weird moving here and it has just gotten weirder. i've grown to like the us, but it's such a confusing 'relationship'

i thought i knew a lot about it from reading the news articles in canada, but living here really highlights all the nuances that make a huge difference

i am actually mailing my citizenship application either today or tomorrow

good luck with that! must be a long process.

Idk if the Liberal Party should really be considered the left but I'm not really convinced that the NDP is better or further left on most of those issues and am not sure I even know what they stand for at this point. I guess that's the other weird thing about Canadian politics: it really feels a bit like a one-party state atm, with an interim leader for the CPC and a lame-duck leader for the NDP.

― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Saturday, October 29, 2016 7:00 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i find it baffling that the tories and ndp haven't expedited leadership contests.

especially the ndp tbh. with the perception that he is a huge mega-loser for going from 1st in the polls to 3rd in the election literally everything he says is rendered ignorable and sort of pitiable, despite his reputation, deserved or not, for being a good debater in parliament.

thanks van horn street

i've read it takes no more than six months but we'll see

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservatives-yazidis-liberal-mccallum-1.3820299

more of this please.

I'm late but, yeah, that's kind of great to see.

Also jim OTM re Mulcair.

that's kind of great to see.

Aargh.

that's kind of great to see.

Kinda ridiculous that it will take another year for the NDP to elect a new leader.

For some reasons, I thought it was in May.

The Economist article suddenly seems a little less silly.

I'm so frustrated that only now, this morning, is Canadian news actually focusing on how Trump's protectionist policies on trade and climate change might affect us. Anecdotal evidence, but it's seemed to me that people here have been evaluating him as if they live in America, even the racists and dumbasses don't seem to get that to HIM we are THEM.

Seems like we are chosen to be holding the liberal democracy fort for a while now.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/uselection/2016/11/09/how-trumps-win-will-affect-canada.html

the environmental stuff is especially enraging for me.

Trudeau's congratulation statement was pretty bad

Jesse Brown ‏@JesseBrown 49m49 minutes ago
You didn't do *anything* so stfu that you are #proudtobecanadian

had a nightmare that bc was a russian oblast

climate policy will be pretty negatively affected i would say

keystone xl is not popular in bc (have some friends who are in favour of it though), so this will be another long fight

nafta is the most interesting, because canada actually stands to gain something from it

thing about nafta: trump talks about renegotiating it or scrapping it entirely but international treaties while chiefly undertaken on the president's behest and negotiated by him have to be confirmed by the senate, surely the senate republicans aren't going to go against free trade? (shouldn't assume anything i suppose)

that's my thinking but ya i guess everything's up in the air right now

I still can't understand why all the Mexicans came to the USA if all the jobs went to Mexico

Duh, to rape.

and fuck him on this

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-abandons-electoral-reform/article33855925/

― sean gramophone, Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:19 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

have they abandoned electoral reform permanently or just in time for the next election? seems obvious that it is not ready for next elxn yet, both in terms of logistics and like, there hasn't been a mature national conversation about it yet. and it's a pretty complex topic, not something u wanna rush. i get feeling burned bc it was a campaign promise, but i never expected it to come to pass

i don't see how that sort of situation can be arrived at tho? is that a thing that has been introduced in other places/by what methods?

I would re-frame this: why is party discipline so strict in Canada? The UK has almost the exact same system on a national basis but MPs seem freer: David Cameron was clearly at odds with much of his own caucus on the EU, to the point where he held a referendum on something he didn't believe in and had to resign. 47 Labour MPs voted against Corbyn on Article 50. Congressmen in the US are not nearly as bound by party lines as Canadian MPs are: House Democrats were divided on things like the Iraq War, the ACA, even Trump's cabinet appointments. This article cites several experts who think Canada has the strictest party discipline of any advanced democracy.

Potential ways to address this: Parliament passing rules that MPs cannot be whipped except under certain circumstances, parties passing rules that party leaders have to be accountable to their caucuses (as is the case with some British and Australian parties), stricter separation between riding-level fundraising and national-level party fundraising.

and fuck him on this

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-abandons-electoral-reform/article33855925/

― sean gramophone, Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:19 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

have they abandoned electoral reform permanently or just in time for the next election? seems obvious that it is not ready for next elxn yet, both in terms of logistics and like, there hasn't been a mature national conversation about it yet. and it's a pretty complex topic, not something u wanna rush. i get feeling burned bc it was a campaign promise, but i never expected it to come to pass

― flopson, Thursday, February 2, 2017 12:42 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

looks like theyve just abandoned it. trudeau wanted a ranked ballot as that would benefit libs most, as things weren't pointing in that direction it's been scrapped. libs win the next election or two and then when the tories are back in they'll put it back on the agenda. love me some democracy!

I would re-frame this: why is party discipline so strict in Canada? The UK has almost the exact same system on a national basis but MPs seem freer: David Cameron was clearly at odds with much of his own caucus on the EU, to the point where he held a referendum on something he didn't believe in and had to resign. 47 Labour MPs voted against Corbyn on Article 50. Congressmen in the US are not nearly as bound by party lines as Canadian MPs are: House Democrats were divided on things like the Iraq War, the ACA, even Trump's cabinet appointments. This article cites several experts who think Canada has the strictest party discipline of any advanced democracy.

going to be a pedant here: David Cameron did not need to have the EU ref. He knew that that there was euroscepticism in the UK and that to deflect the right-wing alternative offered by UKIP, and to ward off the anti-eu competitors for his leadership within the tory party, he specifically made a referendum a campaign promise and then went through with it assuming that it would be won and that his position would be secured, and UKIP would be chastened and damaged by a referendum defeat. His MPs, many of whom wanted the referendum, could never have made him do anything, it was entirely self-inflicted and done out of political (mis)calculation.

it's common for MPs to vote against the whip in the uk, but generally where the vote is symbolic, and quite rarely when the rebelling vote will make a difference (though more than in canada I'm sure). The parliamentary labour party are also particularly and almost uniquely in contemporary UK politics in revolt against the Corbyn leadership

That wasn't pedantic at all. Thanks for expanding.

With all the troubles right now, I'm just glad we aren't going through a referendum. Don't get me wrong, I am all for reform but I understand Trudeau, we saw what happened to the last two prominent PM (Renzi/Cameron) who proposed this dubious democratic practice.

Anyone watch the Tory debate? I'm about 19m in here. What do they have, like, 12 candidates?? (Edit: just checked; there are 14!) I'm actually a little intrigued that almost all of them (except Chong?) are so opposed to a carbon tax. I would have thought shifting taxes from income to consumption might appeal to conservatives.

And, yes, wtf is going on with the NDP?

Ugh, Idk who Rick Peterson is but he's calling for a flat income tax.

Lol @ Andrew Saxton: "[Economists] are in their ivory towers, sipping their tea and coffee, dealing with theory and not practice". The latte-loving elites have been reduced to tea and coffee now?

Hm, I actually agree with Raitt and Alexander on reducing the number of sexual assault claims that get dismissed as 'unfounded'.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/thirteen-canadians-we-want-back-from-trumps-america/article33773631/

ha elon musk

dude literally lives in a city protected by tall metal gates

every time i pass by i feel like im in the twilight zone

Lol @ Andrew Saxton: "[Economists] are in their ivory towers, sipping their tea and coffee, dealing with theory and not practice". The latte-loving elites have been reduced to tea and coffee now?

― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:17 AM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

guessing game. who is this:

"He took up post-secondary studies again at the University of Calgary, where he completed a bachelor's degree in economics in 1985. He later returned there to earn a master's degree in economics, completed in 1991."

That sounds like Harper but I'm hoping that also describes Saxton.

it's harper. saxton studied and worked in finance.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/sunny-ways-is-trudeaus-best-play/article33984428/

Truth be told, the oil and vinegar comparisons of Mr. Trudeau and U.S. President Donald Trump are overdone. Neither are ideological leaders. They both grew up knowing privilege. They are both image obsessed, celebrity politicians who manipulate social media like pros. It’s not hard to picture Mr. Trump taking to his young, Vogue-certified interlocutor, especially if the fashion-forward Ivanka sits in on their chat.

ha

but seriously:

What he responds well to is validation of his hugeness. Mr. Trudeau must humour him if he has to. By all means, he must not publicly criticize him or contradict him in the joint news conference the two leaders will likely hold after their meeting – even if reporters try to provoke him and his anti-Trump base back home wants him to stand up to the brutish Yankee leader. As one veteran of Canada-U.S. diplomacy explained: “The Liberals need to forget about their base because it’s going to disappear if they lose five million Canadian jobs.”

This is not the assignment Mr. Trudeau signed up for when he was elected. But it’s the one that history has handed him. If he manages it well, it will yield huge economic and political dividends. Canadians will be eternally grateful if this country ends up on the right side of the protectionist wall Mr. Trump seems intent on erecting.

For all of Mr. Trudeau’s affinities with Mr. Obama, the latter was just not that into Canada and never did his friends any favours. Mr. Trump, properly treated, could do us many.

i think the churchill/martin luther king bust replacement is inaccurate though

+also

I totally get the importance of diplomacy but the PET/Nixon comparison is interesting: it's not exactly like PET's base disappeared despite the antagonism between him and Nixon.

that's true

and support for pet has increased over the past 30 years

This is curious: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/pre-clearance-bill-would-give-us-border-agents-in-canada-new-powers/ar-AAmQSmI

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/andrew+coyne+conservative+hysteria+over+harmless+motion/12923560/story.html

Conservatism used to have some claim to being a coherent political philosophy. Of late it has become a series of dares. The most extreme voice will lay down the most extreme position, then challenge others to endorse it.

This is gross: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/bus-driver-minister-laughter-1.3984808

Unrelated, I'm half-seriously thinking of buying a Tory membership to vote for Chong.

been talking to a lot of people who are thinknig of doing exactly that, myself included -- gotta look up if i can join the ndp after to try to elect an actual progressive there too

Ugh, I did that in 2011 and voted for Mulcair. Last election campaign felt like such a crushing letdown.

I can't remember who I voted for in that one, but if def wasn't him. not that my choice was necessarily better... mighta been cullen? can't remember.

Amusing (if weird) fluff: https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/justin-trudeau-despises-paul-simon-a-rebuttal?utm_source=noiseyfbusads

more nafta talk and random thoughts

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/nafta-trump-canada-and-trade-the-latest/article33715250/

this is really interesting

i heard from a couple mexicans that if a trade war does occur, the mexican gov't will not cooperate with the us gov't's demands on curtailing immigration from certain countries (read middle eastern countries) nor will it prosecute particular criminals. now i'm reading in the above article that mexico's president has actually said this as well

i think there's a 'let islamic terrorists enter the us through mexico' sentiment among mexicans as pay back right now

trump may want to propose an all or nothing approach because of this? but his advisors will probably tell him he has to bargain. all very tricky

mexico is pretty much pleading to canada to agree to bilateral agreements only, but i really doubt this

the graph depicting the survey results for what countries we should increase trade ties with reflects my own: (1) us; (2) eu; (3) china

in fact, i think we should really work on the eu, so we'll see how ceta goes

http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-customs-block-canadian-man-reading-scruff-profile-215531

this is scary because the type of jokes people make with friends privately (through text eg) could probably be misconstrued

Anyone else follow that Tony Clement radio tantrum? And he's still at it on his facebook and twitter. RIDICULOUS.

been talking to a lot of people who are thinknig of doing exactly that, myself included -- gotta look up if i can join the ndp after to try to elect an actual progressive there too

So afaict, the NDP doesn't let you hold another party's membership as well as theirs. At this point, I'm leaning towards thinking that the Tory leadership might matter more than the NDP leadership. I am wondering if voting for Mulcair as NDP leader in 2011 and Chong as Tory leader in 2017 means I'm really a closet Liberal.

19-yeare-old closet case is youngest ever MPP

there really should be a minimum age requirement

i mean they should increase it

I disagree, actually. I thought it was great when the NDP got a bunch of undergrads into the House in 2011 and would like to see more participation by young adults.

There's something to be said for life experiences

Young adults can be more ideologically imo

They can, although I was probably less ideological as a young adult than I was either as a teenager or as an older adult. (Actually, I voted PC when I was 18 in 1997! Weird transitional period after my anarcho-communist adolescent days.) Clearly, Canadian young adults in general are not even ideologically driven enough to show up on Election Day, for the most part, so I'm not really concerned about the thread of radicalization. 18-25 year olds are adults in the eyes of the law, vote, pay taxes, are often responsible for their own bills (I was when I was 20), generally either work or are part of the post-secondary system, so I think it is fair for them to be involved in government, and I think they have a perspective to offer.

it's not an issue i lose sleep over

i never voted conservative in any of its forms eg (unless you're including the liberals)

my lowest point was voting for the communist party when i was 19 or 20 (chalk it up to dumb things you believe when you're a naive university student)

Reform was the hard-right option in '97. Charest's PC were practically a centrist option to the Liberals (who were probably at their furthest right, economically) and I thought their foreign policy was more principled (although I can't remember what it was).

I'd sooner reduce the voting age than raise it.

same

Blah, sorry, brainfart. I don't know why I thought we were talking about voting ages rather than age eligible to run.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/vbbvqj/conservatives-finally-ditching-the-rebel-have-a-lot-to-answer-for

rats leaving the sinking ship over at the rebel.

legit concerned by the preponderance of MAGA chud types on canadian social media and below the line contributions at newspapers. these "mainstream" conservative voices only now deciding to distance themselves from such a vile and extreme publication shows the current state of canadian conservatism, the real depths it will sink to, and the almost imperceptibly infinitesimal distance between tories and the alt-right

i'd rather they distance themselves a little too late than outright embrace it like south of the border.

that being said, i remain extremely pessimistic as to how Quebec nationalist parties will distance themselves from the increasingly racist and xenophobic sections of the population.

it might surprise you to learn some of the most important figures in quebec nationalism are pretty fuckin outspoken on this issue:
http://plus.lapresse.ca/screens/e9020f7c-0021-4659-a972-e2908ac6db6b%7C_0.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/jean-francois-lisee-racism-immigration-burqas-1.3785382

though "systemic racism" aside, of course lisée's still on his party's fuckin anti-burqa tip

i still think there is a large degree of separation between PQ/Lisée/Drainville and organisations like Atalante Québec and lol La Fédération des Québécois de Souche (Federation of pure-bred Québécois, kid you not). i don't think the PQ are as openly xenophobic as those proper french alt-right organisations, nor do they live in the same sphere of politics. the same way John McCain and the american alt-right are not exactly the same battle. the question now is how influent one will try to be on the other in the coming elections, because yeah, PQ will use the white nationalism card for sure.

I c&p-ed the discussion to the 2017 thread: Canadian Politics 2017: I've Got a Pipeline Straight to the Heart of You

thanks sund4r!

My union joins in:

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-elementary-teachers-union-calls-for-renaming-john-a-macdonald-schools

I used to supply at one of the (what I take to be many) Sir John A.s occasionally.

Moved it to the 2017 thread:

Canadian Politics 2017: I've Got a Pipeline Straight to the Heart of You