Gus Van Sant

Who of us can look in his own heart and blame him?

on paper there's lots to despise (ie. warm tones and elliott smith soundtrack predates/predicts fetal rock/emo boom, robin williams in maudlin mode, "how dya like them apples", its launching of the hydraheaded damon/affleck monster) but in practice i found it well-written, capably-acted and surprisingly engrossing. the funny thing is that i can't remember a single person disliking this film when it came out, and now i'd have a hard time finding anyone who rates it. has your relationship with it changed? and if so, why?

In short, it's an honorable mainstream hit. I don't get some of the hate it inspires.

was this considered a mainstream film at the time of its release? williams aside, none of the actors were particularly well-known.

mainstream = 2 Oscars

how was the "it's not your fault" scene fraudulent?

Same here, kinda. I did see it again a few years ago and still liked it.

was this considered a mainstream film at the time of its release? williams aside, none of the actors were particularly well-known.

There was a bit of buzz. I specifically remember my mom was watching an Oprah that featured Matt and Ben (and maybe Williams?) talking about GWH around the time of the release and she called me into the room to watch it, because she thought I might find it interesting.

Now, if the performances move you, that's a matter of taste.

Alfred OTM, my understanding is that psychotherapy doesn't have "one-moment cures" like that. (I'm an Irish Catholic who embraces his guilt, so I've never tried it.) It's the equivalent of the"A-HA!" moment in artist biopics, where he discovers his style.

xp

Quite so. I vividly remember during the Titanic box office lockdown that Good Will and As Good As It Gets were the top two and three films for many weeks.

It imitates every psychoanalyst-patient relationship filmed by Hollywood

every single one? even what about bob? an incredible achievement!

my understanding is that psychotherapy doesn't have "one-moment cures" like that.

you're right! but only because psychotherapy doesn't preach "cures", period. or at least not in my experience. a better suited term might be "breakthrough". these tend to happen very fraudulently, sometimes in single moments, thanks to generous forces of accumulated pressure and/or anguish.

Robin Williams doing Dr Judd Hirsch, genius janitor who looks great shirtless gets the girl ... the triumph of this movie is that it was well-crafted enough not to get laughed off the screen.

I've never seen "Bob?" but I certainly prefer my shrink movies to be comedies.

'fraudulent' in relation to what? your experience? or everyone's?

Remember the next scene? Damon finally decies to Wise Up, abandoning his buddy to Follow His Dreams.

you were expecting him to stay in boston... ? and if he were to leave, would you rather it were apropos of absolutely nothing? or is an action causing a reaction too 'hollywood'?

(xpost)

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/miramax_films/good_will_hunting/_group_photos/matt_damon7.jpg

it's funny, at the top of the thread it's all 'argh sell-out!' gvs has now 'gone back to his roots. does he now seem 'less fraudulent'?

he does?

ever see Mala Noche?

I saw it at Berlin. There's a scene at an AA meeting where one character stands up and says how proud he is to have achieved mediocrity. Gus van Sant really seems to have taken that notion to heart...

Boy, he's not getting much American distribution anymore, is he?

Anyway, he peaked early. His smaller 2000s-era "experimental" films don't hold up well, but I admire his insistence on investing his Hollywood capital in'em.

I'd maybe swap Milk and Elephant's spots but otherwise, otm. Paranoid Park def the best of that run.

Gerry + Elephant is as good a one-two, one-year punch as any American director has managed in probably my lifetime.

Elephant is his best

I haven't seen Elephant since the Wednesday before Thanksgiving 2003, and it tends to live in my memory despite not thinking it was fully realized at the time.

pretty much exactly my experience, alfred. I've had a DVD of it for a while but never feel like revisiting it.

Some things aren’t meant to be rewatched. In a good way. I don’t think I could bear it.

I've seen Elephant maybe 8 times. I've always found it utterly transfixing, despite the horror.

Haven’t seen since the theater but just extremely sad but certain details have really stuck with me.

It's my #1 from GVS

xp the image that has never left me is the CU of the first girl with her brains blown all over the library stacks

never felt like i could deal with 'elephant' but loved 'paranoid park' and 'last days'

Haven’t seen since the theater but just extremely sad but certain details have really stuck with me.

The look the one girl gives the two mean girls in the bathroom after she runs in is one of those for me.

I think To Die For is his best, followed closely by Elephant. Never got the appeal of Idaho

Boys II Men scene in Last Days is so good.

I’m really interested in the fact that so many people can never revisit Elephant again while I’ve literally played it twice in a row on more than one night. The inevitable doom is crushing, but for whatever reason that dream take walk through that day with those kids makes it something beyond the ultimate tragedy. It’s a haunter that pierces some primal things for me.

circa1916 - I watched Elephant for the first time since 2003 per your post the other day. You're right, it's completely hypnotic, and less thoroughly terrifying. I could easily imagine watching it on a loop if it weren't for the shooting, which imo goes on too long, or takes up too much of the movie's time (forgot how short it is, only 80 minutes). But the kids are fantastic, excellent use of non actors and long, lingering takes. Many beautiful moments: closeup of the girl kissing Alex, the punk kids, everything with Michelle, Timothy Bottoms (!) as the dad at the end, the drawn out banal everyday trauma of an alcoholic parent faced with acute traumatic violence, him mildly putting his hand on his son's shoulder as they watch the school burn. also forgot about the Gerrycount game.

In 'c'mon folks, you could have also led with THIS too' news, the Ryan Murphy/FX publicity machine is doing everyone a disservice because I only just found out today that van Sant has directed the first four of eight episodes of Feud: Capote vs. the Swans, and maybe more too. You know, minor details!

Whaaaat

I know, right! Jesus Christ, way to bury the lead!

Finished both S5 of Fargo and E1 of the Capote series today; couldn't help noticing the similarity between Jennifer Jason Leigh's jailhouse speech in Fargo and Diane Lane's reaction to "La Côte Basque" in The Swans.

Feud looks so fuckin good, Gus still king

Gira is really branching out.

love diane lane

and chloeeeeee my heart

Two episodes in. The performances are uniformly good, with so much opportunity for caricature. Enjoying the score, too--kind of new-agey classical. (Didn't get the Michael Gira joke above at first, so I checked to see if he'd done it...)

Flashing back to the '66 ball for the third episode was a great idea. Like a lot of people it seems, my first question was whether or not this Maysles Brothers film exists. Yes, sort of:

http://mayslesfilms.com/film/with-love-from-truman/

There was a book a few years ago about the ball that I read; truly fascinating snapshot of a moment.

https://www.vulture.com/article/gus-van-sant-feud-truman-capote-black-and-white-ball-interview.html

Watched the first ep and at least so far GVS is in for-hire mode here. Can't overcome the Ryan Murphy-ness of it all

Didn't like E4 as much as the first three, but I think two great performances are emerging. I love Capote and PSH--almost a comfort movie for me--but I think Tom Hollander might be even better, or at the very least benefits from his comparative anonymity. (PSH is such a presence for me, I don't think I can ever stop being entirely aware it's him.) And Naomi Watts is someone for whom I've always had an arm's-length appreciation, but I think she's so good here.

episode 3 was pretty great

the way GVS recreated the Maysles style was so good, esp since there never was Maysles footage of the ball or anything! the only thing they ever did together irl was just a very short reel of interview w Truman in long island apparently

the ball looked amazing, and the side by side scenes of truman dancing alone then w his mother was so good

havent seen ep4 yet

E3 was a classic self-contained episode--I think you could enjoy it without watching the rest of the series.

Watts plays Babe Paley. The real-life version:

https://i.postimg.cc/vHYZfdXZ/babe.jpg

Wasn't 100% sure whether this week's episode was the last--it could've worked as the finale, although they would have needed a written postscript. (Which I'm sure will be part of any finale.) Anyway, two more, next one directed by Jennifer Lynch. Thought E5 and E6 were both pretty good, although E3 is still the highlight so far. Getting "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life" in there was nice.

Thought Capaote's drunken TV appearance in E7 was the series' worst scene--accurate, maybe, but overracted--but the Babe Paley stuff, especially their conversation on Truman's deathbed, was very good. Intrigued as to how they'll handle Dead Truman in E8; hope they don't get overly clever.

yeah the babe/truman scenes were great & agree abt the drunk tv

i love this show but there’s also something about it that i find a little boring?
idk what it is

I guess it's that there's not really a lot of room for surprises. Truman drinks, Truman tries to finish the book, and that's about it (and we know the ending already). I loved the ending of E7, the way it led to the last line. Hope Tom Hollander and Naomi Watts win Emmys--I take it there's a separate category for this kind of show?

Try as I might, I can't really find Truman Capote a particularly interesting historical figure

i think limited series? idk abt such things

but yeah Watts & Hollander are incredible. also like Sevigny too

not a fan of Ringwald in this tho? her performance feels very strained somehow

Agree--she just seems wrong. Weird to watch Treat Williams play the husband of a dying woman, knowing he died himself after making this.

yeah it’s nice seeing him in this

oh you know who i love in this? Calista Flockhart - her Lee Radziwll is really good, very arch & shady

and Demi was excellent her small role

I like both of them. I'm a little on the fence with Sevigny, probably because her performance is so different from what I'm used to with her.

Holly Golightly = Carol Matthau...I guess that's true? Hard to picture Walter Matthau married to the Holly Golightly of the movie.

oh huh i didn’t know that!

matthau irl seems too curmudgeonly to tolerate a golightly but there you go
there’s someone for everyone i guess

Wait, what? I just came across her name elsewhere.

Regarding Glenn Close's performance in Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical adaptation of Sunset Boulevard.

Close modeled Norma’s grotesque look on Walter Matthau’s wife, Carol. Close didn’t know her, but she’d heard that when Carol was young she had porcelain skin. As she got older, she applied white makeup to her face, which made her look odd, even a little frightening. “But I’m sure when she looked in the mirror she saw that porcelain skin,” Close said. “Norma’s makeup morphed into something grotesque. But she was seeing something different in the mirror. She was seeing what she looked like in the 1920s.”

Riedel, Michael. Singular Sensation: The Triumph of Broadway (pp. 20-21). Simon & Schuster

You hope for a strong finale; thought this one meandered, so I'll knock the series down a notch overall. They should have ended with E7.

I did like the very ending though, the last five minutes and the final shot. I don't know if that young couple bidding had special significance--I thought something was going to be revealed about them, but no. Love that bit of music at the end, which played throughout the series.

The ending was of a piece with the Black and White Ball. I think I find that so interesting because it feels like the last time that glamour and celebrity still largely belonged to people over 40 (pick whatever number you want--50 maybe). From '67 forward, that changed.

I watched the whole thing thinking Answered Prayers was eventually published in more or less its finished form. I guess not, although the version published in 1986 is 180 pages long.