― Momus, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Perhaps something in babydom encourages conservatism. Having briefly
looked after a coworker's kids yesterday (and they're both cool, but a
handful), it was quite tempting to boil everything down to
narrow-minded sloganeering in order to get a point across.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― nathalie, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― dave q, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
There's something good about living right on the cusp of London,
suburbia's a lot more peaceful and spacious. I like the freedom of
being able to dip into the city as and when I choose.
― Trevor, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Ally, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Sean, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
I would absolutely *love* to live in London at the moment, but wallet
wise that's a total no-no. At present there is only one borough in
the whole of London where the average annual salary is sufficient to
meet the average annual mortgage repayment. To say that all suburbia
looks the same smacks of ignorance and upper middle class snobbery to
― jel, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― DG, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
It is defined as housing to sleep in, which is oddly why nothing
obviously exciting goes on there. Except those garage bands, those
DJ's, those people making killing machines out of wheelchairs &
flymo's to win on Robot Wars. Around the idea that most people who
spend their time in suburbia are at school you might get a vague idea
why less excitement is going on.
Your friends become inexplicably(?) conservative (small C?) and
boring because now they just aren't interested in entertaining you
anymore. They have something more important in their life - a baby.
If you don't live in hicksville, or suburbia then you have nowhere to
― Pete, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Well it all depends how much you value your job really, so that's
another matter entirely. I *heart* my job, so if that means I'm lost
then I can live with that.
Anyhow, speaking of Zone 6 the district line beckons me - can't wait
to curl up in a comfy chair with my pipe and slippers - I hear
there's a good film on telly tonight. ;-)
London alternative: move to Brighton instead. The glut of demi-trendy
breeder-tendency kidult bourgie bohos MUST BE SEEN TO BE BELIEVED.
― suzy, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Eh? This is hard to get. But I *think* you're saying: people
shouldn't move to the inner city, then leave again. Why the hell not?
Who are you to tell them what do to with their lives, for goodness'
― David Inglesfield, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― bnw, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Kerry, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
points: safe and suitable for walking, biking, and going on
vacation without locking the doorstrees and grassproximity to
stores and other people
Bad points:Not enough wilderness to be
really gorgeouslack of cultural events (school concerts are about
And worst of all, NO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. There is a lovely
fun job I was offered today and I can't take it. Why not? Because the
rest of my family has places to go and we do not have multiple cars
or a goddamn BUS to get me there. I am really, really upset about
this. The only place I can work anytime soon is the grocery store.
― Lyra, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
I grew up in a suburb (bordering city) which was multicultural and
filled to the brim with Jewish intellectuals and faculty brats. You
only went private if from out of town and/or you suffered from
behavioural problems. 20/20 hindsight tells me it was great, but this
was the exception.
Still, I moved to NYC and then to London at first available chance.
― anthony, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Nude Spock, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
I HAVE WONDERED WHAT A CITY BABY WOULD BE LIKE?!?!?! City babies I met in college seemed well - adjusted though a
bit boozy and promiscuous.
― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Bill, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
What all this says is that a lot of people in South Essex and North
Kent - Richard Littlejohn country, the cliches are rooted in truth
I'm afraid - are consciously reacting to the multiculturalism of the
city from which they garner their wealth, and react by creating a
kind of aggressive white English state, a recreation of an imagined
monocultural outer London. And of course it's infinitely nastier and
pettier than those London suburbs ever were. London actually felt no
closer from there than it feels from South Dorset, which is a curious
state of affairs.
However I know other suburbs are nicer and more civilised places: the
parts of south-west London straddling the Thames (from blue to yellow
in one glorious thrust in '97) seem lovely to me. Colindale is OK.
Does Brighton count as a suburb of the "extended city of London" (cf
Hywel Williams in the Guardian late last year). If so, it's GRATE.
― Robin Carmody, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
I think that, broadly speaking, Robin's right - at least in terms of
voting habits etc of suburbs east of London and those of the suburbs
south-west of London.
I think (hope) that most of the NF activity was just a couple of nuts
rather than typical of the people where I live. The stickering was
quite frenzied (about 50 suddenly appeared over night covering
Worcester Park station. I actually know for a fact that there is/was
at least one active NF member who lived near me (I remember seeing a
picture of him at an NF rally in Searchlight and thinking "Blimey -
he went to the same school as me"). The NF opened an office in Epsom
but despite me living quite near Epsom, I have NO IDEA what it's like
(why would anyone get a train in THAT direction?).
Other scary far-right things that happened in my lovely south-west
Crazed nut phoned police after Brick Lane nailbomb claiming
responsibility (Edward Davey MP said the phone box should
Asian guy attacked by ten drunken yobs a few weeks ago in violent
On a more positive note, New Malden has something like the highest
concentration of Koreans outside Korea in the world. I'm not sure
why they love New Malden so much - it's not that good.
― jamesmichaelward, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
since moving to a semi-urban area (St Louis), i enjoy it a lot less.
i'm hoping to move to NYC in about 2 or 3 years, and hopefully i'll
enjoy that more. i think the main problem w/ St Louis is the lack of
ANY type of worthwhile "scene", but that seems to be a whole new
thread topic. i simply moved to the part of the city i liked best,
and i'm a lot happier now.
while suburbans can be snobs, driving around in giant Sport Utility
Vehicles and partaking in Lawn Wars, fighting over who has the bigger
status symbol, most teenagers who complain about suburban life tend
to be boring individuals inthe first place, no matter what setting
you place them in. it's all about making the best of what you're
― mike j, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
The areas I had in mind are, I guess, further from central London
than the area where you live.
I have however always been struck by how much nastier and more
aggressive Toryism is when it's actually facing multiculturalism in
the face than when it's at a relative distance. So only very
recently have West Country Tory MPs become quite as nasty as the
south-east mob (Oliver Letwin and Adrian Flook are obviously far more
right-wing and far easier to hate instantly than Sir James Spicer and
Edward Du Cann were).
However all the points you make are true, and I only had a minority
(albeit a particularly aggressive and vicious one) in mind. I just
found it curious that the biggest Tory revival in terms of
Westminster seats was in East London / Essex (rather than in the
outer shires as had been generally expected) and was throwing a few
thoughts, perhaps overt generalisations, around.
― Robin Carmody, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Geoff, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― DG, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― dave q, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― matthew james, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 2 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Of course, when I'm thinking of "suburbs" I'm thinking of places
where all the houses look exactly the same -- Levittown-style
stuff, where people give the streets fancy names to hide the fact
that they live in an utter and total corporate contrivance. But not
all towns near to cities are like that, of course, and it is not for
those that my withering stare is intended...
― Phil, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― travis bickle, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 18 February 2013 16:21 (3 years ago) Permalink
I like the vegas article
― iatee, Monday, 18 February 2013 17:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
did we talk about this? this seems like the right thread for it, somehow
― goole, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 21:33 (3 years ago) Permalink
lumping AK and HI into the continental states seems like a major error to me crossedarms.jpg
― goole, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 21:36 (3 years ago) Permalink
I think you mean contiguous, Alaska is still on North America, man
― ☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:04 (3 years ago) Permalink
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
Some of the name choices are just dummmmmmb.
― The New Jack Mormons! (kingfish), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
keep looking for a state named "Candy" next to it
― ☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:08 (3 years ago) Permalink
Seems like a fun way to shake things up in the states, can we vote on this to be put into legislation somewhere
― sleepingbag, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
if you want to move you have to find someone in another state to swap with
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:11 (3 years ago) Permalink
no they just redraw the borders every day
― iatee, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 23:14 (3 years ago) Permalink
― iatee, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 18:19 (3 years ago) Permalink
― goole, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 18:23 (3 years ago) Permalink
― I turned away to leave these few in thought and contemplation (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 6 June 2013 14:01 (3 years ago) Permalink
cool jpg man
― iatee, Thursday, 6 June 2013 14:03 (3 years ago) Permalink
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Thursday, 6 June 2013 17:07 (3 years ago) Permalink
Me too, btw. Keep that shit outta here.
― how's life, Thursday, 6 June 2013 17:09 (3 years ago) Permalink
That NYT article is the sort of bullshit that newspapers can't resist, even when they know there's nothing real there. On a par with something headlined "Do Blondes Really have More Fun?"
― Aimless, Thursday, 6 June 2013 18:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
― max, Monday, 22 July 2013 10:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
I just came to link to the gawker article on that.this weekend I went to visit my girlfriend at bard college (ah so ok, this will have nothing to do with poverty) and couldn't get a taxi at the train station. realized there is no such thing as a bus in the area, and that it is actually impossible to walk anywhere at all (all semi-rural highways with little to no shoulder).it was totally enraging and I got to hang out at the locked train station for about an hour in the middle of the night before my gf could scramble a ride. everytime I'm up there I think it's basically immoral or unethical to build a place like that. literally impossible to do anything without owning a private car. I don't know how anyone could justify that kind of planning!
― chinavision!, Monday, 22 July 2013 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
if you can't afford a car you're written off as a lazy criminal. our only hope for better planning is if rich people want to walk or take more public transportation, and it'll only be in enclaves they can afford to live in. the people who need it these resources the least. that's just the society we live in.
― Spectrum, Monday, 22 July 2013 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
one problem with that article is it is doing percentiles nationwide. so a whole areas can go up or down in avg income (witness north dakota). in that sense its not only a mobility story, but a story of which regions have been doing well or poorly, and the two notions get mashed together. also not clear how they inflation adjust, etc. can't drill in more to the details, because the website is down :-(
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Monday, 22 July 2013 16:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
Pretty crazy that in some of those North Dakota regions there's like a 20-30% chance that a child born in the bottom fifth rose to the top fifth. Just shows how powerful the oil boom is.
― Cap'n Conserv-a-pedia (Hurting 2), Monday, 22 July 2013 16:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
remember that's not top fifth north dakota -- that's top fifth nationwide. so just everyone in ND is better off than before -- not an indicator of relative mobility in ND.
sites back up for me, skimmed the data, they don't seem to have put any thought into the sort of things i'm worried about -- no story on inflation adjustment, etc.
also as far as i can tell they're not comparing kids at _their parents age at time of survey_ with the incomes of their parents. so that's why you get this "everything towards the middle" effect. like obv income should grow over time. but because their cohort were born '80-81 they're all 33 or so now. if their parents income is from when their parents were e.g. 40 then at least for some classes of jobs, even if they were exactly in their parents footsteps, they would be making less b/c they're younger. for other classes of jobs you're going to top out in earnings earlier. so that's another confounding factor that makes this data v. up for interpretation
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Monday, 22 July 2013 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
― Mordy , Monday, 5 August 2013 21:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hey, found a no-car, pedestrian neighborhood away from the city for iatee.
― pplains, Monday, 25 November 2013 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Wednesday, 27 November 2013 03:48 (2 years ago) Permalink
Moving from the US coasts to inland cities & burbs (and finding jobs presumably)
Oklahoma City, for example, has outpaced most other cities in growth since 2011, becoming the 12th-fastest-growing city last year. It has also won over a coveted demographic, young adults age 25 to 34, going from a net loss of millennials to a net gain. Other affordable cities that have jumped in the growth rankings include several in Texas, including El Paso and San Antonio, as well as Columbus, Ohio, and Little Rock, Ark.
Newcomers in Oklahoma City have traded traffic jams and preschool waiting lists for master suites the size of their old apartments. The sons of Lorin Olson, a stem cell biologist who moved here from New York’s Upper East Side, now ride bikes in their suburban neighborhood and go home to a four-bedroom house. Hector Lopez, a caricature artist, lives in a loft apartment here for less than he paid to stay in a garage near Los Angeles. Tony Trammell, one of a group of about a dozen friends to make the move from San Diego, paid $260,000 for his 3,300-square-foot home in a nearby suburb.
“This is the opposite of the gold rush,” Mr. Trammell said.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:13 (1 year ago) Permalink
The Oklahoma Laters.
― pplains, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
― ♪♫ teenage wasteman ♪♫ (goole), Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
feel like you'd have to keep a knife at my throat continuously to get me down there
My city's mentioned in that paragraph. Gotta say, the weather's nice, the costs are cheap, my morning commute is about 10-15 minutes.
The state's getting overrun by lunatics, but for someone who doesn't leave the house that often, it's not so bad. We city folk are pretty progressive when it comes right down to it.
― pplains, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
Now Ok-lol-homa on the other hand is a different story, imho.
― pplains, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 19:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm still kind of in awe of how much the downtown of my city has been revitalized. Maybe too much, some days.
― mh, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 20:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
Columbus, Ohio is kind of great. It's in no way a suburb though.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
seriously! why are they calling these small-to-midsize cities suburbs?
― marcos, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
anything that's not nyc or l.a. is a suburb, obviously.
― first is the worst (askance johnson), Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
Wait, what, who called Columbus a suburb?
Also this guy
Aasim Saleh, 30, moved to Oklahoma City from Seattle to coach kayaking in the city’s Boathouse District. The ability to buy a home without having a desk job was one major draw for him.
must really enjoy professional basketball.
― pplains, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
in america most cities are suburbs
― iatee, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
i'm definitely not "icky" fwiw
― markers, Tuesday, 5 August 2014 21:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
I just mean we're somehow talking about "moving to Columbus" in the "moving to the suburbs" thread
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 7 August 2014 04:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
Tony Trammell, one of a group of about a dozen friends to make the move from San Diego, paid $260,000 for his 3,300-square-foot home in a nearby suburb.
Unless your last name is Duggar or The Hutt, nobody needs a 3,300 sq. ft. house.
― Welcome to my spooooooky carnival! Hope I don't... blow your mind! (Phil D.), Thursday, 7 August 2014 09:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
Columbus, Ohio is kind of great. It's in no way a suburb though.
Over the last 50 years Columbus annexed all the unincorporated land in Franklin County (and even some in 3 adjoining counties) and in doing so became the largest city in Ohio in population and land area. Columbus has even made enclaves of several of their suburbs by completely surrounding them. Most of the population of Columbus resides in what the functionally a suburb.
― kate78, Thursday, 7 August 2014 21:18 (1 year ago) Permalink
*is functionally a suburb
This isn't a city. This is a stain left over after someone threw a tomato at a map of Ohio.
― pplains, Thursday, 7 August 2014 21:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
And don't forget Columbus' Congressional districts:
― pplains, Thursday, 7 August 2014 21:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
Not classy or icky. Maybe some are dudes. Most of all, I think, they are enthusiasts. I may be imagining that American suburbs are equivalent to the normal populace in smaller countries such as Belgium or France or Korea where young people can get caught up in things and older people go bowling. But listening to Seamonsters and remembering Steve Albini, I can't help wondering what happened to the Smashing Pumpkins when everybody still loves the Wedding Present. (Oh, I thought he produced one of their albums, but it appears that he merely criticized them. Then which top nineties album did he produce (other than Seamonsters)?)
― youn, Thursday, 7 August 2014 23:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
I think of Columbus as a small city because it is gritty at the core. (Maybe I am not properly recognizing the surrounding areas that are really a part of it. The Twenty-Seventh City by Franzen may be relevant. But, yes, the people still seemed suburban in their preoccupations ... )
― youn, Friday, 8 August 2014 00:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
That Warstler guy is an idiot. He's a regular commenter on Scott Sumner's blog, where I quickly learned to ignore him.
― o. nate, Tuesday, March 6, 2012 1:42 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
stories i came across recently of interest to almost nobody:
"megalomaniac twitter troll runs scammy non-company with ties to rick perry"
(funny he was discussed here 3 years ago. lol yglesias)
― goole, Tuesday, 23 February 2016 23:55 (4 months ago) Permalink