― Momus, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Perhaps something in babydom encourages conservatism. Having briefly
looked after a coworker's kids yesterday (and they're both cool, but a
handful), it was quite tempting to boil everything down to
narrow-minded sloganeering in order to get a point across.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― nathalie, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― dave q, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
There's something good about living right on the cusp of London,
suburbia's a lot more peaceful and spacious. I like the freedom of
being able to dip into the city as and when I choose.
― Trevor, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Ally, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Sean, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
I would absolutely *love* to live in London at the moment, but wallet
wise that's a total no-no. At present there is only one borough in
the whole of London where the average annual salary is sufficient to
meet the average annual mortgage repayment. To say that all suburbia
looks the same smacks of ignorance and upper middle class snobbery to
― jel, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― DG, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
It is defined as housing to sleep in, which is oddly why nothing
obviously exciting goes on there. Except those garage bands, those
DJ's, those people making killing machines out of wheelchairs &
flymo's to win on Robot Wars. Around the idea that most people who
spend their time in suburbia are at school you might get a vague idea
why less excitement is going on.
Your friends become inexplicably(?) conservative (small C?) and
boring because now they just aren't interested in entertaining you
anymore. They have something more important in their life - a baby.
If you don't live in hicksville, or suburbia then you have nowhere to
― Pete, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Well it all depends how much you value your job really, so that's
another matter entirely. I *heart* my job, so if that means I'm lost
then I can live with that.
Anyhow, speaking of Zone 6 the district line beckons me - can't wait
to curl up in a comfy chair with my pipe and slippers - I hear
there's a good film on telly tonight. ;-)
London alternative: move to Brighton instead. The glut of demi-trendy
breeder-tendency kidult bourgie bohos MUST BE SEEN TO BE BELIEVED.
― suzy, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Eh? This is hard to get. But I *think* you're saying: people
shouldn't move to the inner city, then leave again. Why the hell not?
Who are you to tell them what do to with their lives, for goodness'
― David Inglesfield, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― bnw, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Kerry, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
points: safe and suitable for walking, biking, and going on
vacation without locking the doorstrees and grassproximity to
stores and other people
Bad points:Not enough wilderness to be
really gorgeouslack of cultural events (school concerts are about
And worst of all, NO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. There is a lovely
fun job I was offered today and I can't take it. Why not? Because the
rest of my family has places to go and we do not have multiple cars
or a goddamn BUS to get me there. I am really, really upset about
this. The only place I can work anytime soon is the grocery store.
― Lyra, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
I grew up in a suburb (bordering city) which was multicultural and
filled to the brim with Jewish intellectuals and faculty brats. You
only went private if from out of town and/or you suffered from
behavioural problems. 20/20 hindsight tells me it was great, but this
was the exception.
Still, I moved to NYC and then to London at first available chance.
― anthony, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Nude Spock, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
I HAVE WONDERED WHAT A CITY BABY WOULD BE LIKE?!?!?! City babies I met in college seemed well - adjusted though a
bit boozy and promiscuous.
― Mike Hanle y, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Bill, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
What all this says is that a lot of people in South Essex and North
Kent - Richard Littlejohn country, the cliches are rooted in truth
I'm afraid - are consciously reacting to the multiculturalism of the
city from which they garner their wealth, and react by creating a
kind of aggressive white English state, a recreation of an imagined
monocultural outer London. And of course it's infinitely nastier and
pettier than those London suburbs ever were. London actually felt no
closer from there than it feels from South Dorset, which is a curious
state of affairs.
However I know other suburbs are nicer and more civilised places: the
parts of south-west London straddling the Thames (from blue to yellow
in one glorious thrust in '97) seem lovely to me. Colindale is OK.
Does Brighton count as a suburb of the "extended city of London" (cf
Hywel Williams in the Guardian late last year). If so, it's GRATE.
― Robin Carmody, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
I think that, broadly speaking, Robin's right - at least in terms of
voting habits etc of suburbs east of London and those of the suburbs
south-west of London.
I think (hope) that most of the NF activity was just a couple of nuts
rather than typical of the people where I live. The stickering was
quite frenzied (about 50 suddenly appeared over night covering
Worcester Park station. I actually know for a fact that there is/was
at least one active NF member who lived near me (I remember seeing a
picture of him at an NF rally in Searchlight and thinking "Blimey -
he went to the same school as me"). The NF opened an office in Epsom
but despite me living quite near Epsom, I have NO IDEA what it's like
(why would anyone get a train in THAT direction?).
Other scary far-right things that happened in my lovely south-west
Crazed nut phoned police after Brick Lane nailbomb claiming
responsibility (Edward Davey MP said the phone box should
Asian guy attacked by ten drunken yobs a few weeks ago in violent
On a more positive note, New Malden has something like the highest
concentration of Koreans outside Korea in the world. I'm not sure
why they love New Malden so much - it's not that good.
― jamesmichaelward, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
since moving to a semi-urban area (St Louis), i enjoy it a lot less.
i'm hoping to move to NYC in about 2 or 3 years, and hopefully i'll
enjoy that more. i think the main problem w/ St Louis is the lack of
ANY type of worthwhile "scene", but that seems to be a whole new
thread topic. i simply moved to the part of the city i liked best,
and i'm a lot happier now.
while suburbans can be snobs, driving around in giant Sport Utility
Vehicles and partaking in Lawn Wars, fighting over who has the bigger
status symbol, most teenagers who complain about suburban life tend
to be boring individuals inthe first place, no matter what setting
you place them in. it's all about making the best of what you're
― mike j, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
The areas I had in mind are, I guess, further from central London
than the area where you live.
I have however always been struck by how much nastier and more
aggressive Toryism is when it's actually facing multiculturalism in
the face than when it's at a relative distance. So only very
recently have West Country Tory MPs become quite as nasty as the
south-east mob (Oliver Letwin and Adrian Flook are obviously far more
right-wing and far easier to hate instantly than Sir James Spicer and
Edward Du Cann were).
However all the points you make are true, and I only had a minority
(albeit a particularly aggressive and vicious one) in mind. I just
found it curious that the biggest Tory revival in terms of
Westminster seats was in East London / Essex (rather than in the
outer shires as had been generally expected) and was throwing a few
thoughts, perhaps overt generalisations, around.
― Robin Carmody, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Geoff, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― DG, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― dave q, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― matthew james, Saturday, 1 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 2 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
Of course, when I'm thinking of "suburbs" I'm thinking of places
where all the houses look exactly the same -- Levittown-style
stuff, where people give the streets fancy names to hide the fact
that they live in an utter and total corporate contrivance. But not
all towns near to cities are like that, of course, and it is not for
those that my withering stare is intended...
― Phil, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
― travis bickle, Monday, 3 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
like nobody moved to celebration florida to flee corruption and trade barriers
― iatee, Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
it's not like disney got the power to change the legal system or trade agreements in Florida
― iatee, Thursday, September 6, 2012 12:04 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
bet we could find counterexamples
― your naïve bacon (mh), Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Newgod joins this board, and quickly he's some dude (goole), Thursday, 6 September 2012 17:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
― iatee, Sunday, 16 September 2012 19:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
― iatee, Monday, 15 October 2012 14:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
tbf most of these people think they're going to still be living in mcmansions in suburbs and driving their oversized cars at the age of 85, as god intended
― ɥɯ ︵ (°□°) (mh), Monday, 15 October 2012 14:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
not that this is new or anything but I like this graph
― iatee, Monday, 26 November 2012 17:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
Isolated Cabin Dwellers More Likely to Vote Republican (The Atlantic)
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Monday, 26 November 2012 17:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
― iatee, Thursday, 27 December 2012 23:59 (11 months ago) Permalink
― Jeff, Friday, 25 January 2013 15:21 (10 months ago) Permalink
The "multifamily island" looks to me like it might actually be an business hotel/extended stay sort of place.
― s.clover, Friday, 25 January 2013 15:34 (10 months ago) Permalink
― salsa shark, Monday, 18 February 2013 08:14 (9 months ago) Permalink
are american suburbs more fun to grow up in than english ones? i imagine you spend your days zooming about on yr skatebaord and then go home and listen to hardcore. in the sun.
― the Shearer of simulated snowsex etc. (Dwight Yorke), Monday, 18 February 2013 10:04 (9 months ago) Permalink
They were awesome for the skateboarding years. Pure hell when I got old enough to want to go to shows.
― how's life, Monday, 18 February 2013 11:38 (9 months ago) Permalink
I grew up in a "suburban" part of a city - inside city limits but public transit was very limited and there was no commercial area within walking distance. It was good in some ways -a yard to play football in, places to build snowforts and sled, quiet, etc. I was pretty miserable as a teenager though when I couldn't get anywhere without taking a long bus ride to the metro -- 1hr trip to anything worthwhile. Although I guess that's better than not having it at all.
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Monday, 18 February 2013 14:07 (9 months ago) Permalink
I spent my weekends in a planned community. Cul-de-sacs out the wazoo. Walking and biking paths snaking through the neighborhoods. Only two ways into the town. Playgrounds close by. That part of town where every street was named after a PGA golfer.
As a kid, my step-brother and I would enter a drainage tunnel and walk along through it to see where we'd come out at. Our local playground was this "tree-house", where there was a long tube with a ladder inside it that would lead to a circular platform, walled off with metal bars.
It must've looked pretty sharp when people started moving in during the late 70s, but by the time we were done with it around 1990, all that new had worn off in a bad way. All those houses with the wooden facades started looking pretty bad. Traffic was getting heavier, winding up and down those curvy streets to the cul-de-sac of your choice. Those walking and bike paths that went between and behind the houses were perfect for scoping out burglaries, peeping toms and even the occasional rape. People kept peeing down the tube of our "tree-house", so the community nailed plywood over the openings.
We went back over there recently for a Christmas party. There's a big five lane "loop" going around the city, mere feet from some people's backyards. They razed all the land around the lake my family would picnic at, so now it looks like this little pond surrounded by strip malls and Walmart Neighborhood Grocery. Those two routes into the city were clogged and I read that they're thinking about adding a third artery, if the state highway department lets them put in a new interchange on the interstate.
Instead of the planned "New Town" that the commercials for the place advertised, it looks now just like a regular town... albeit one that is choking itself through the shortsighted planning of that utopia that never quite came to pass. And it's STILL 30 minutes removed from any other city. I don't know why people still move out to those brick mini mcmansions on the slab. The crime is still there. The county property taxes are the same as in the "big" city. You can't see the stars at night. I honestly couldn't tell you what is the pay-out for all that.
― pplains, Monday, 18 February 2013 15:03 (9 months ago) Permalink
That part of town where every street was named after a PGA golfer.
We had a part of town where every street was named from Tolkein.
― how's life, Monday, 18 February 2013 15:25 (9 months ago) Permalink
A Frodo Lane, everybody wants one.
― pplains, Monday, 18 February 2013 15:50 (9 months ago) Permalink
haha I was just thinking "Out on my skateboard the night is just hummin'."
― s.clover, Monday, 18 February 2013 15:55 (9 months ago) Permalink
this is a good piece about the nutty vegas street names
― max, Monday, 18 February 2013 16:00 (9 months ago) Permalink
there's a road near me called 'good intentions road'
― 乒乓, Monday, 18 February 2013 16:01 (9 months ago) Permalink
I drove down it once and it got really warm inside the car
― 乒乓, Monday, 18 February 2013 16:02 (9 months ago) Permalink
― Stranded In the Jungle Groove (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 18 February 2013 16:21 (9 months ago) Permalink
I like the vegas article
― iatee, Monday, 18 February 2013 17:04 (9 months ago) Permalink
did we talk about this? this seems like the right thread for it, somehow
― goole, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 21:33 (9 months ago) Permalink
lumping AK and HI into the continental states seems like a major error to me crossedarms.jpg
― goole, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 21:36 (9 months ago) Permalink
I think you mean contiguous, Alaska is still on North America, man
― ☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:04 (9 months ago) Permalink
― 乒乓, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:07 (9 months ago) Permalink
Some of the name choices are just dummmmmmb.
― The New Jack Mormons! (kingfish), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:08 (9 months ago) Permalink
keep looking for a state named "Candy" next to it
― ☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:08 (9 months ago) Permalink
Seems like a fun way to shake things up in the states, can we vote on this to be put into legislation somewhere
― sleepingbag, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:09 (9 months ago) Permalink
if you want to move you have to find someone in another state to swap with
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 26 February 2013 22:11 (9 months ago) Permalink
no they just redraw the borders every day
― iatee, Tuesday, 26 February 2013 23:14 (9 months ago) Permalink
― iatee, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 18:19 (6 months ago) Permalink
― goole, Wednesday, 5 June 2013 18:23 (6 months ago) Permalink
― I turned away to leave these few in thought and contemplation (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 6 June 2013 14:01 (6 months ago) Permalink
cool jpg man
― iatee, Thursday, 6 June 2013 14:03 (6 months ago) Permalink
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Thursday, 6 June 2013 17:07 (6 months ago) Permalink
Me too, btw. Keep that shit outta here.
― how's life, Thursday, 6 June 2013 17:09 (6 months ago) Permalink
That NYT article is the sort of bullshit that newspapers can't resist, even when they know there's nothing real there. On a par with something headlined "Do Blondes Really have More Fun?"
― Aimless, Thursday, 6 June 2013 18:40 (6 months ago) Permalink
― max, Monday, 22 July 2013 10:50 (4 months ago) Permalink
I just came to link to the gawker article on that.this weekend I went to visit my girlfriend at bard college (ah so ok, this will have nothing to do with poverty) and couldn't get a taxi at the train station. realized there is no such thing as a bus in the area, and that it is actually impossible to walk anywhere at all (all semi-rural highways with little to no shoulder).it was totally enraging and I got to hang out at the locked train station for about an hour in the middle of the night before my gf could scramble a ride. everytime I'm up there I think it's basically immoral or unethical to build a place like that. literally impossible to do anything without owning a private car. I don't know how anyone could justify that kind of planning!
― chinavision!, Monday, 22 July 2013 16:29 (4 months ago) Permalink
if you can't afford a car you're written off as a lazy criminal. our only hope for better planning is if rich people want to walk or take more public transportation, and it'll only be in enclaves they can afford to live in. the people who need it these resources the least. that's just the society we live in.
― Spectrum, Monday, 22 July 2013 16:38 (4 months ago) Permalink
one problem with that article is it is doing percentiles nationwide. so a whole areas can go up or down in avg income (witness north dakota). in that sense its not only a mobility story, but a story of which regions have been doing well or poorly, and the two notions get mashed together. also not clear how they inflation adjust, etc. can't drill in more to the details, because the website is down :-(
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Monday, 22 July 2013 16:41 (4 months ago) Permalink
Pretty crazy that in some of those North Dakota regions there's like a 20-30% chance that a child born in the bottom fifth rose to the top fifth. Just shows how powerful the oil boom is.
― Cap'n Conserv-a-pedia (Hurting 2), Monday, 22 July 2013 16:57 (4 months ago) Permalink
remember that's not top fifth north dakota -- that's top fifth nationwide. so just everyone in ND is better off than before -- not an indicator of relative mobility in ND.
sites back up for me, skimmed the data, they don't seem to have put any thought into the sort of things i'm worried about -- no story on inflation adjustment, etc.
also as far as i can tell they're not comparing kids at _their parents age at time of survey_ with the incomes of their parents. so that's why you get this "everything towards the middle" effect. like obv income should grow over time. but because their cohort were born '80-81 they're all 33 or so now. if their parents income is from when their parents were e.g. 40 then at least for some classes of jobs, even if they were exactly in their parents footsteps, they would be making less b/c they're younger. for other classes of jobs you're going to top out in earnings earlier. so that's another confounding factor that makes this data v. up for interpretation
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Monday, 22 July 2013 17:12 (4 months ago) Permalink
― Mordy , Monday, 5 August 2013 21:48 (4 months ago) Permalink
Hey, found a no-car, pedestrian neighborhood away from the city for iatee.
― pplains, Monday, 25 November 2013 16:03 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Wednesday, 27 November 2013 03:48 (1 week ago) Permalink