Monty Python's Flying Circus - Classic or Dud?

total classic, btw. as I have written elsewhere recently, almost unspeakably *important* at times.

"that series 1 episode where it's mostly about the Scottish man fighting alien blancmanges is pretty poor."

I love that episode! One of the very first ones I ever saw... for some reason, people always rag on the Python sketches that went any longer than five minutes, but i thought this and Scott of the Antarctic were quite good.

Series three, very good. Series four, okay... even though Cleese's writing material did make into several episodes, the sense of balance he provided the show was gone, and a lot of the material just fell into overdone and overplayed nonsense. See the sketch with Terry Gilliam on the couch eating beans very messily with Chapman in drag and Jones I believe going on about snogging. I mean, I like gross-out humor, but a lot of the fourth season just seemed pointless and uninspired. There are a few moments of brilliance still present, however.

(Also, does anyone remember those Time Life UK adverts where they tried some rip-off thing where you signed up for a series of tapes at 5.99 each or something that only had two episodes on each one, all out of sequence, and all from those smudgy mid seventies NTSC transfers?)

If not classic I don't know what is.

Er, these are arguments for Python?

I had no idea there were episodes without John Cleese, though.

The Spanish Inquisition sticks in my mind as the sketch that made me chuckle a lot. I don't even mind when people quote that one.

"I say, Lionel! Catch!"

Ah ... so you're a Two Ronnies man, then?

I'd caught programmes here and there on TV, but the majority of it I'd never seen before. My conclusion? Classic. Python is quite simply the funniest and most creative comedy show there has ever been. Perhaps only Chris Morris comes close to the subversive surrealism of it.

Actually, Terry Gilliam's interludes are what I like least; I find him manic and vulgar. For me he's the Ringo Starr of the Pythons, a sort of fratboy Salvador Dali. The others remind me of Lewis Carroll, Edward Lear, Eric Satie... brilliant eccentric humour which can only come out of a certain high-minded seriousness. For instance, I discovered recently that one of the sketches was based on a Fluxus performance that happened in London. Now, even to parody a Fluxus performance, the Pythons had to be arty and curious enough to go to one, just as, to parody medieval romance it helped to be steeped in the subject, as Terry Jones was.

Those darn Americans! ;-)

Momus, people were writing news articles about Fluxus events back then; it seems like the sort of thing that you'd just be aware of (especially after Yoko had gotten famous through Lennon). I'm not sure any of them actually went to such an event.

I'm not sure that the slow-moving bullet hitting the tenor or the old lady tripping the busses are any more manic and vulgar than the French aero-sheep demonstration or "sex on the telly" bit.

(I have the DVD set. I can hereby attest to the fact that watching a whole day worth of MPFC can drive one slightly batty. I, on the other hand, thoroughly enjoyed myself.)

Also, for anyone who loves the show and hasn't heard any of Python's comedy albums, I highly suggest picking those up. "Matching Tie and Hankerchief" is by far my favorite of the bunch.

I picked-up a CD set of ... hmmm .... maybe 'The Best of Python'? It sounds like someone put a tape recorder next to a TV speaker while MPFC was on, and then burned that to CD. Horrible quality. And yet funny. We listened to that skit about the architect who was supposed to design an apartment building and ended-up with a slaughterhouse instead while driving through Flagstaff in the middle of the night during a snow storm. Without the visual cues for the skits, well, it is an experience. Highly recommended.

idle did the songs, the skits i mentioned i think of as all basically cleese joints (i mean cleese was in all of them, right? i don't remember super good)

thread is a decent argument vs Python fans

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius)

"a decent argument vs python fans" is like "a decent argument vs dream theater fans", seriously it's not even necessary, we know already

Tbh, don’t remember Rutlemania ever really breaking out in any significant sense in the American market.

Inasmuch as SNL hosting was being cited as evidence of his prominence, since All You Need Is Cash was commissioned by Lorne Michaels & basically made as an SNL lead-in or filler or w/e aiui

Right, well aware of this, but that is more a proxy for the SNL/Michaels/Idle connection, it’s not like people came for the Rutles and stayed for the Idle.

The Rutles special legendarily the lowest rated program in the nation when it aired.

but still, about same size as SNL audience

p sure most of my high school class saw it

The Rutles special legendarily the lowest rated program in the nation when it aired.

ha, did not know this. nearly everything famous about SNL is completely opaque to non-US humans.

I saw it when it aired, as did some of my school friends, but it was more from a Beatles angle than a Python slant. Bought the album and studied it. There was a ton of stuff in the accompanying booklet so it was almost like watching the show again, which I was finally able to do when decades later I got the DVD at J&R Music World.

People knew about the Pythons from PBS, in New York WNET/13, where the show aired on Sunday evenings, usually paired with various other British sitcoms or shows such as Rising Damp or The Two Ronnies and kids would talk about it in school on Monday morning.
https://www.nytimes.com/1975/09/10/archives/monty-pythons-fully-different-new-series-plus-tom-mix-and-fellini.html

idle next worst, despite good turns and writing plenty of the good sequences. introduced innes and generally a shitty influence, and intrinsically unfunny in any post python effort

There was always Rutland Weekend Television, I don't think that's ever been repeated though, so it might be terrible, the Neil Innes bits are good. Also it's never been released on DVD, I wonder if that's Idle's decision? I've got the album though!

(xp) You got Rising Damp? Cool.

at the time i loved rutland weekend TV bcz of this guy:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hU0QZQRTNr0/hqdefault.jpg

= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Woolf

https://www.nytimes.com/1975/03/15/archives/bbcs-monty-python-surprise-hit-on-public-tv-serious-doubts-at-first.html

(xp) Harold Pinter's old mucker.

...still alive, 90! And many more, Henry!

Have to admit at the time I never really got into Rising Damp, or The Rise and Fall of Reginald Perrin for that matter. It was only when I got to college (François Truffaut to thread!) and saw Billy Liar as well as Saturday Night and Sunday Morning and rewatching A Hard Day's Night, the latter with the similarly named Norman Rossington, did I start wondering what this Leonard Rossiter guy was about.

Hollywood should do a remake of "Rising Damp" with Ralph Fiennes as Rigsby.

Just now learned that the common thread between Monty Python and Rising Damp was Ian MacNaughton.

"Grrrrrrreat. We're losing the lion. Rewrite. Lose the lion everyone. That's fantastic!"

In my mind's eye I have over the years minimized Eric's contribution to the Rutles, extending his silencing from the epicenter of Ollie Halsall singing his character's vocals, preferring to think of them as an offshoot of The Bonzos (see my current controversial screenname) as well as Patto/Timebox.

I used to have at least some of the Rutland Weekend Televisions as video files, assume they're still accessible on the Internet somewhere. It was OK, mark otm about Henry Woolf

Forgot to mention Fans of the Rutles and Rockpile, are you familiar with a band called Fatso?

since i'm declaring my teenage allegiance in the thread i shd also mention that as a loyal child of beatles fans i was hotly offended by the entire concept of the rutles, and also george h's enthusiasm (my favourite beatle why so treacherous!): i refused to countenance that any of the parodies were any good, and indeed anything but utterly point-missing -- however i loved the bonzos unreservedly (and still do)

no wonder i became a professional rock critic eh foax

george h's enthusiasm balanced by the fact that, acc to Idle's autobiog, he listened to the rutles songs gruffly made sure that the beatles got a sizeable cut of the songwriting royalties

Is any Rutles song a pastiche of one of George’s? Can’t recall one.

"Nevertheless"

offsetting what he was going to lose in the "my sweet lord" debacle i guess -- that wd sharpen yr senses round such an issue

John told Idle "Get Up and Go" was too close to "Get Back" and Dick James would probably sue them if it was on the album (so they left it off).

Posted this on the Bonzos thread earlier today, perhaps it is relevant here as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SQ7GeiGh8&feature=emb_logo

Start again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SQ7GeiGh8

There was always Rutland Weekend Television,

Radio 5 is also good and at least sometimes funny; shows Idle dedicating the same sort of attention to detail another medium as he did to the extremely dense & visual Python books.

Actually the only thing I remember disagreeing with in dm's long post with Idle bringing along Innes as a negative.

its a controversial take i admit but in particular i cant forgive urban spaceman

(xp) "Nausea" is not set in Paris, Neil. Tut tut.

Yeah, that was a little, um, defensive or something.

john cleese, 1972:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

john cleese, 2020:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/john-cleese-baffled-jk-rowling-105247414.html

I've always wondered what happened to his chin between Python and Fawlty Towers, let alone old age

tbh at this point I expected even worse from him

the other participant in the argument sketch is, of course, dead. however, in 1982 he said this:

https://youtu.be/nwOcc-buSsg?t=481

Trump's latest interview vs monty python parrot sketch pic.twitter.com/GKlpNF4ffB

— Darren Dutton (@Darren_Dutton) August 4, 2020

Never knew about the origin of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwJQQyF0yy0

wow! how great. never knew that either.

as in you didn't know it was pre python?

nope!

I often do the real version of that: mi bed was a bit of foam on't floor for 3 years in a mice infested slum in a box room wi' brother and sister and we had black mould on toast for breakfast...

Also the bookshop sketch. Too bad it is not complete.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYlOV7K-xOU

Cleese posted that "Four Yorkshiremen" video to honor the passing of Barry Cryer, who plays the waiter.

easier to acknowledge a passing waiter than to get one to acknowledge you nest pas

*nudge, nudge, wink, wink*