Tom Wolfe and White Suits

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i was thinking how little "news" writing excites me as writing and how little i think the objective is possible. I poked arround a used bookstore today, and got two wolfe's, and have been reading didion, and wonder if there was a split somewhere in the mid60s in news and information gathering that could be matched with the entertainment industry (youth vs old, etc).

discuss that and what you think of "new" journalism (can you add bangs?)

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 07:54 (twenty years ago) link

I wish that "new journalism" wasn't so inextricably linked to the WOW HEY MAN sixties.

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 08:24 (twenty years ago) link

aha! i was just thinking the other day how much i enjoy 60s 'new journalist' stuff wolfe/mailer/thompson/etc. in fact i cant stand mailer & wolfes novels, but i'll read any journalist/factual books they wrote ('miami and the siege of chicago' is especially good). does capotes 'in cold blood' predate all this?

zappi (joni), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 08:27 (twenty years ago) link

i was thinking how much i hated mailer, and then i stopped myself and thot of "why are we in vietnam" & the executioners song.

anthony easton (anthony), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 08:32 (twenty years ago) link

i've just remembered that i've got a comp book called 'the new journalism', it doesnt have bangs in it but does have robert christgaus first magazine article. must dig out....
those white suits were rubbish though, werent they?

zappi (joni), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 08:43 (twenty years ago) link

why are we in vietnam is cool but mainly mailer is a cunt

duane, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 08:47 (twenty years ago) link

tom wolfe seemed cool when taking physco-delphics was new but fuck that too. the best bks like that are hunter s t's "angels" & ed sanders's "the family"

duane, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 08:49 (twenty years ago) link

lester bangs but yo who doesnt

duane, Tuesday, 25 November 2003 08:50 (twenty years ago) link

john gregory dunne's (mr didion) 'the studio' is good; wolfe has the central handicap that he can't write for toffee. HST has flashes of brilliance but 'hell's angels' is boring. the one about his 'freak power' campaign, and 'the kentucky derby is decadent and depreaved' are classic. mailer is a tosspot.

enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 09:25 (twenty years ago) link

I've been studying this lately, yeah the New Journalism book is pretty interesting, compiled by Wolfe. I particularly like the Joe Esterhasz (sp?) piece from Rolling Stone, "Charlie Simpsons Apocalypse" where he visits a town in which the authorities and townsfolk have been in conflict with the hippies.

I thought that article was really well balanced, in that by describing how he got information from both sides by fitting in as one of the "townsfolk", cigar in mouth etc, and then as one of the hippies (not shaving for a few days, telling them he writes for ROLLING STONE!!) he manages to paint a picture of the pettiness and prejudice of both sides, even if he does paint himself as a fairly suave dude at the same time.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 12:00 (twenty years ago) link

"why are we in vietnam" is a bloody awful book! i've tried to read it twice and couldn't get past the halfway point either time.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:24 (twenty years ago) link

Joe Esterhasz

was he the JE who wrote 'basic instinct' etc?

enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:29 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know, that would be an odd transition but possible I suppose. It can't be that common a name.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 25 November 2003 13:31 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...
I just slept at Tom Wolfe's niece's house. She showed me all his correspondence with her, some of which was actual consultation for I Am Charlotte Simmons. His penmanship is the most staggering shit I have ever seen: he sweeps his capitals like that crazy discus cutting weapon in Predator 2, just BEAUTIFUL. He sketches translucent greenish-bluish peacock feathery-looking figures in the background too. I'm gonna try to get her to write him a letter asking about his favorite rappers, how to be a modern dandy, etc etc, and then scan and publish the entire correspondence. Yup, I'm digging 2005.

LeCoq (LeCoq), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 23:29 (nineteen years ago) link

It's always been difficult for me to get past his THE AMAZING ROLLY-GOLLY BLAND AND BLUE CRRRRRRRRRRAZY VENTURES OF THE NEW AND USED RADICALS OF THE AMERICAN BLUE DOUBLE LINED AND DRIED HIGHWAY kind of titles.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

have you seen that stuff about the Tom Wolfe/George W. Bush mutual appreciation love-in?

zappi (joni), Thursday, 10 February 2005 00:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Yesireeee!!!! Tom has -- vvvvvvvvrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooommmmmm -- sped off to the righteous religious republican rrrrrrrright. Because Americans live freer than all us phag European intellectuals or something.

Miles Finch, Thursday, 10 February 2005 10:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Staccato no-comma just-the-facts journalism was the "new journalism" for awhile, and it was invented by Samuel Morse. Prior to the telegraph reporters wrote discursive poetical-novelistic charge-of-the-light-brigade missives that took weeks to reach their destinations. Everything was a "feature." Wolfe's stuff is really the old stuff, so the starch-collar conservative white suit crap isn't such a cognitive dissonance after all. I'd love to see him interviewed by Katie Couric.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 10 February 2005 22:02 (nineteen years ago) link

They could get together and talk about how *SHOCKING* the whole concept of friends with benefits is.

Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Thursday, 10 February 2005 22:19 (nineteen years ago) link

one of my favorite writers (Edward Abbey), who is a traditional conservative of sorts, called another of my favorite writers (Tom Wolfe), who is also a traditional conservative of sorts, a "faggoty fascist fop." either I contain multitudes or I'm in denial about something here.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 10 February 2005 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

why is the white suit "conservative"?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 10 February 2005 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Because any dirt will show up on it very very quickly

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 10 February 2005 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

i've never liked tom wolfe

latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 10 February 2005 23:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Didn't he have a cameo on the Simpsons where he got mud on his suit, unzipped it down the back to reveal...another white suit underneath?

Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 11 February 2005 10:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Itd be great if he didnt and you just had it in your head.

BTW Tracer Hand - Thanks for your post.

David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 11 February 2005 16:35 (nineteen years ago) link

I can verify the Tom Wolfe Simpsons appearance, but I agree it would be better if it just existed in Girolamo's head.

sugarpants (sugarpants), Friday, 11 February 2005 16:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Tom Wolfe - dud
white suit - dud
*new journalism* - can be good if done well, but seems much harder to do well than just straight journalism.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 11 February 2005 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link

The white suit did work for Mark Twain, though. And Colonel Sanders.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 11 February 2005 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link

And John Travolta.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 11 February 2005 17:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Just not Tom Wolfe, I guess.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Friday, 11 February 2005 17:02 (nineteen years ago) link

columnists: paid BY each word they write /
wire reporters: (paid salary) work for news pools who at least at one time had to pay FOR each word they wrote (the cost of transmitting). cost directly impinged on verbosity, although now time is the only limiter.

the philosophical foundation behind the great press associations which today form the bedrock of "hard news" and all the rhetoric of objectivity was laid down by mr. reuter (after it became clear that electric wires and not pigeons were going to make his fortune): to write about scandals which involved famous people, any spectacular event in which a lot of people died, and then down the list (i can't find the orig. charter admonition just now but it is even more lurid than that)

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 11 February 2005 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link

My great grandad favoured a white suit, so I'm all for 'em

Ba-ba ra-ra cu-cu da-daismus (Dada), Friday, 11 February 2005 17:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Just not Tom Wolfe, I guess.

-- Pleasant Plains

Did you see that Harper's anniversary cover? He looked like such a schmuck next to Mark Twain.

Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 11 February 2005 17:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Papa gone mad, mamma, she's feeling sad
I'm gonna baptize you in fire so you can sin no more
I'm gonna establish my rule through civil war
Gonna make you see just how loyal and true a man can be.

The first and last lines are brazenly drawn from the common well, while the middle lines had to have been dispatched straight from the unconscious. The song's atmosphere is breezy and menacing; the first and last lines of each verse supply the breeziness, the middle two the menace. The printed lyrics do not, of course, account for Dylan's vocal performance, which, of a piece with the white suits and riverboat-gambler hats he has been affecting lately, renders uncannily credible the grandiose rhetoric of the middle lines; nor do they convey the insouciant creepiness of Augie Meyers's roller-rink organ. Treating Dylan as merely a writer is like judging a movie on its screenplay alone. (from "I is Someone Else" by Luc Sante. The New York Review of Books 52(4).)

[This is half relevant. I see that Duane recommends Hunter S. T.'s Angels above.]

youn, Monday, 21 February 2005 09:48 (nineteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

New novel:

http://www.amazon.com/Back-Blood-Novel-Tom-Wolfe/dp/0316036315

Earth, Wind & Fire & Alabama (Eazy), Wednesday, 5 September 2012 15:36 (eleven years ago) link

A big, panoramic story of the new America, as told by our master chronicler of the way we live now.

As a police launch speeds across Miami's Biscayne Bay-with officer Nestor Camacho on board-Tom Wolfe is off and running. Into the feverous landscape of the city, he introduces the Cuban mayor, the black police chief, a wanna-go-muckraking young journalist and his Yale-marinated editor; an Anglo sex-addiction psychiatrist and his Latina nurse by day, loin lock by night-until lately, the love of Nestor's life; a refined, and oh-so-light-skinned young woman from Haiti and her Creole-spouting, black-gang-banger-stylin' little brother; a billionaire porn addict, crack dealers in the 'hoods, "de-skilled" conceptual artists at the Miami Art Basel Fair, "spectators" at the annual Biscayne Bay regatta looking only for that night's orgy, yenta-heavy ex-New Yorkers at an "Active Adult" condo, and a nest of shady Russians. Based on the same sort of detailed, on-scene, high-energy reporting that powered Tom Wolfe's previous bestselling novels, BACK TO BLOOD is another brilliant, spot-on, scrupulous, and often hilarious reckoning with our times.

Thomas Pynchon you aren't.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 5 September 2012 15:39 (eleven years ago) link

crack dealers in the 'hoods

rmde

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 5 September 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link

camacho...cuban...black...anglo...latina...light-skinned...haiti...creole...black-gang-banger...'hoods...yenta...shady russians

look at this quarterstaff (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 5 September 2012 15:52 (eleven years ago) link

God this guy is a terrible novelist.

franny glass, Thursday, 6 September 2012 00:04 (eleven years ago) link

Eh, terrible fake rap lyrics aside, I enjoyed I Am Charlotte Simmons more than Inherent Vice.

Sandy Denny Real Estate (jaymc), Thursday, 6 September 2012 00:06 (eleven years ago) link

ken kesey had some pretty scathing things to say about him IIRC.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 6 September 2012 00:06 (eleven years ago) link

one month passes...

i will read this when i have time, but man '80s magazine design was...a thing, wasn't it.

throwing john shade (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 2 November 2012 13:26 (eleven years ago) link

yeah like being grainy text heavy hard-to read was a leftist virtue. nobody could mistake mother jones for a "glossy"

in honor of the new novel. i think this is especially effective because hitchens acknowledges wolfe's strengths albeit back-handedly

He can be funny, too, and his bullshit detector, though deaf in the right ear, is still acute. Where he falls down is in trying to be a social anthropologist.
This is a well-known money-spinner, often employed by conservative behaviorists down on their luck. You begin to babble about orgasm as a sacrament, or about denims as a social uniform. From being a modest miniaturist, you become a pundit and then a full-dress blowhard and cultural censor.

(REAL NAME) (m coleman), Friday, 2 November 2012 13:29 (eleven years ago) link

one could argue that hitch became a bit of blowhard himself but whatever his sins he was never a miniaturist or modest

(REAL NAME) (m coleman), Friday, 2 November 2012 13:31 (eleven years ago) link

It is a bit rich to read Hitch complaining about Wolfe's conservatism, but this was almost twenty years before Hitchens joined the Bush bandwagon.

Sug ban (Nicole), Friday, 2 November 2012 13:33 (eleven years ago) link

two months pass...

Trying to read even the first couple of paragraphs defeated me

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/01/04/eunuchs-of-the-universe-tom-wolfe-on-wall-street-today.html

Ned Raggett, Friday, 4 January 2013 15:54 (eleven years ago) link

my favorite part of that hitch thing is all the extraneous bile directed at elaine's

difficult listening hour, Friday, 4 January 2013 16:30 (eleven years ago) link

three years pass...

new harpers has a 16,000-word excerpt from his forthcoming book on language acquisition

my god he is an awful writer

mookieproof, Thursday, 28 July 2016 23:42 (seven years ago) link

Skimmed it but I'm avoiding reading it because I don't want to get a headache internally arguing with his dilettantish knowledge of linguistics and his usual reactionary bullshit.

bobby shimurda (bamcquern), Friday, 29 July 2016 01:22 (seven years ago) link

Plus I'm just pirahã'd out. Other hacky pseudo-whorfian journos have already bled this subject dry.

bobby shimurda (bamcquern), Friday, 29 July 2016 01:26 (seven years ago) link

i have fond memories of reading his '60s journalism but dunno if i want to revisit, every time i've looked at something of his from the past few decades it comes off as pretty hacky and forced

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 29 July 2016 01:27 (seven years ago) link

two months pass...

Epic takedown of Wolfe's piece of shit article in Harpers and the book it comes from:

http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/tom-wolfes-reflections-language/

Josefa, Monday, 3 October 2016 02:04 (seven years ago) link

Btw who the hell is E.J. Spode? A pseudonym I presume..?

Josefa, Monday, 3 October 2016 03:11 (seven years ago) link

one year passes...

RIP and all. So who gets the suits?

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 15:53 (five years ago) link

hm rip, id been reading hooking up recently... the title essay is bad obv but great as kitsch; the ft bragg story is readable but also p bad

johnny crunch, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 16:01 (five years ago) link

Plenty of stuff to not like about him, but at his best what a writer. I had read this just a few weeks ago:

http://nymag.com/news/media/47353/

The Electric Gin-and-Tonic Acid Test.

RIP Tom Wolfe, whom I met only once.

I was dressed as a WWI soldier and we rode a golf cart together through the Connecticut twilight. And then Bill Buckley walked by with Big Bird.

I swear to god this was a 100% true story.

— Katherine Mangu-Ward (@kmanguward) May 15, 2018

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 17:07 (five years ago) link

All his books after The Right Stuff were very ignorable, but for about a decade he put out some very good and readable material that said interesting things about how people lived in the USA. Then he tried to become an Important Thinker and lost his mojo.

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 17:13 (five years ago) link

the haughty, vicious interchanges between Wolfe and Mailer are classic

Joe Gargan (dandydonweiner), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 18:14 (five years ago) link

RIP

Vanities was when I got off the bus, but he was on fire for much of the 1960s

Brad C., Tuesday, 15 May 2018 18:37 (five years ago) link

rip -- i could never get much out of his later books but his classic stuff was great to discover as a teen. rick perlstein dismissed him on twitter as "the jordan peterson of the 70s," which kinda surprised me b/c i see a lot of echoes of wolfe's style in nixonland.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 18:42 (five years ago) link

He definitely calcified early and kept on calcifying. No use for his fiction. But his heyday stuff is fun to read.

didn't believe in evolution!

the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 May 2018 16:16 (five years ago) link

I did like this recent essay on how the 2008 financial crisis let Wall Street gracefully retire a generation of traders and executives whose testosterone was no longer as valuable in the age of quants.

... (Eazy), Thursday, 17 May 2018 20:25 (five years ago) link

five years pass...

Just starting on this:

https://newrepublic.com/article/177571/tom-wolfe-electric-kool-aid-conservative

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 6 January 2024 20:09 (three months ago) link


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