tarkovsky's stalker

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they are showing this, in the architecture building, tonight. should I go?

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 05:57 (10 years ago) Permalink

a thousand times yes. one of my favorite movies. the final shot is stunning

ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 06:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

can't wait for the bruckheimer remake

sdfsdf, Tuesday, 2 March 2004 06:13 (10 years ago) Permalink

what other tarkovsky films have you seen RJG ?

Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 14:25 (10 years ago) Permalink

DAMN YES. This is one of the most beautiful films ever!!! Do not miss it!!!

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 14:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

I read and enjoyed Roadside Picnic (what Stalker is based on) last year. I'd be interested to see if the fillum conjures the same doom-laden atmosphere as the book.

robster (robster), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 14:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

Roadside Picnic is great, but, er "loosely based"....

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 14:34 (10 years ago) Permalink

I've never seen any other tarkovsky films.

I want to go to this but it is on in one hour and my tutorial just finished and I did not go and I feel a bit guilty and don't want to bump into anyone who might make me feel worse.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

Tarkovsky is someone I like more in theory than in practice. I think I dozed off during Solaris.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

I am concerned.

the last film I saw, in arch and presented by the guy that is presenting this, was 'alphaville' and I hadn't had a lot of sleep beforehand and did doze off OK, a little bit, and I haven't had a lot of sleep, now, and I could see it happening, again, and it does last for two hours and forty minutes.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:12 (10 years ago) Permalink

For all I know Stalker might be different, but the two Tarkovsys I've seen - Solaris and The Sacrifice - were ultra slow-moving with lots of talk and very little action. In other words, dangerous stuff for the sleep-deprived.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:16 (10 years ago) Permalink

stalker may be boring if that's not your thing. (for what its worth i think solaris is almost unforgivably boring, but i still kind of like it. stalker is a little more interesting.)

do you like long takes? really long ones?

ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:20 (10 years ago) Permalink

yeah, I do.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:20 (10 years ago) Permalink

really, really long ones?

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:21 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think so.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:23 (10 years ago) Permalink

Then hie thee hither to that Tarkovsky flick!

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:25 (10 years ago) Permalink

stalker has longer slower pacing than other tarkovsky fliks.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

yeah but it's not AS bad because i think there is a very simple, direct plot (as opposed to no plot at all in his other films.) i mean , it's kind of inherently interesting because there is a defined goal they are working towards.

ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

decided not to-------have cut is too close wrt its beginning and what I have to do before I leave my flat & I am going to meet some friends, in a pub, instead. I should see it, someday.

thanks xxxxx

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

all his films have plot!

(nb i love stalker)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:32 (10 years ago) Permalink

there isn't a tarkovsky thread so you should all continue to chat about him, here, and encourage me to seek out his movies.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:35 (10 years ago) Permalink

YES! I wish I could go. : (

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:36 (10 years ago) Permalink

oh too late. obv. I hated 'the sacrifice' but now love it. I'm sure 'solaris' ws on at the gft recently and the cinema is the only place to see that one really. momus always says something about 'textural more than textual' so I'll not. we cd talk about 'mirror'?

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:38 (10 years ago) Permalink

you could've come, too.

they're showing 'alphaville' again, in a week or two, have you seen that?

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

I couldn't really. I'm super-busy this week apparently.

they're showing that at the gft? I'm going to all the godard things at the gft, which inc. 'alphaville', yeah. I have it around here on video somewhere.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

oh, that's at the GFT, too. I meant at the architecture building but I think the GFT is nicer, to watch films in.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:43 (10 years ago) Permalink

I always view Tarkovsky as slightly medicinal... i.e., I'm taking my culture medicine. It's a bit like going to a gallery, as opposed to the entertainment world of films. The whole Soviet film 'industry' had completely different aims than Hollywood.

andy, Tuesday, 2 March 2004 19:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

i dont view tarkovsky that way at all

sokurov raises more questions about pretentiousness and lack of content (though i usually like him too)

when i've seen solaris it's been like a kick in the gut, i cry and cry--stalker i have a greater distance from, perhaps that's in the design; the best part is when he gets the phone call in The Zone

is it a published number i wonder?

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 21:56 (10 years ago) Permalink

tarkovsky is in NO WAY representative of the "soviet film industry"

he had a hard time getting films made, and often they were only made because he was a "prestige" asset

but eventually it was difficult enough that he left, and he died in france

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 22:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

Large chunks of Stalker were filmed in Tallinn, in a peculiar 'industrial-ish quarter' that's almost in the centre of the town (and not too far from the port). It's an area surrounded by heavy stone walls, I've never seen what it looks like inside.

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 23:03 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think the best part of "Stalker" is the whole sequence from where the protagonists enter the zone in their land-rover, up to where they get into the zone, and you see the abandoned tanks, bodies in armoured cars etc. The part where they are on the little rail trolly, and you can see the landscape behind them changing is just phenomenally good, esp w/the newer artemiev soundtrack.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 23:22 (10 years ago) Permalink

he should've went.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 23:23 (10 years ago) Permalink

>esp w/the newer artemiev soundtrack.

newer?

the one I know has the loop of the rail trolly looping while the filtered electronics slowly grow louder

is there another version?

(Jon L), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 23:28 (10 years ago) Permalink

I am a huge fan of Tarkovsky.. Andrei Rublev and Nostalghia above all. Mirror is mostly excellent..

if you haven't had enough sleep, don't go see Stalker. I don't really love it.. I've seen it twice but still feel like I'm missing something.

daria g (daria g), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 01:25 (10 years ago) Permalink

I should've gone.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 09:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

that's the message of the movie, yes. took me longer to figure it out. so how was it?

wfsdfsdf, Wednesday, 3 March 2004 09:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

I should've gone.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 10:02 (10 years ago) Permalink

don't beat yourself up about it dude.

chris (chris), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 10:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

you're right and you're right.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 10:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

you should try to see them in a cinema rather than on a TV too RJG - it helps to be away from other distractions/choices and -> reduce the psychometabolic rate down to the pace of the films
(they do indeed have alot of very long takes and long tracking shots)

in spite of his concerns with the metaphysical/religious/spiritual (maybe implied, or maybe i just misinterpret) not being ones i resonate with, i nonetheless find his films very appealing. i get the same kind of awe as when looking at a magnificent cathedral or stained-glass window - they don't make me believe in god or the afterlife, but they are magnificent.

i got more 'psychological' than spiritual stuff from them - memory, desire, regret - though from certain angles those kinds of feelings sometimes verge on something more 'profound'

he made me appreciate the visual details of things more, and his fascination with rain/trickling/dripping water has something almost sensually/biologically resonant about it (iirc there is a few-seconds shot in 'nostalgia' of rainwater droplets hitting bottles/jars in sunlight - delicate and transitory beauty, all colourbursting microrainbows & gentle chiming , created in the midst of a grotty hovel from 'miserable' weather and a leaky roof...)

solaris is my favourite - it is the only one i have seen more than once - nostalgia second fav - stalker/andrei rublev/the sacrifice all pretty equal to me
i have never got to a cinema to see 'mirror' grrrr

(and ha yes don't go to a hot cinema when short of sleep to see one - this was my downfall at the ica cinema's showing of andrei rublev - iirc (it was 20 yrs ago so i may not) it was at least 3hrs 30min long and i slept through approx 30 mins in the middle...)

Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 12:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

I live half a block from the glasgow film theatre and one and a half blocks from the centre for contemporary arts.

I never seem to go to the cinema. : (((

I wish cozen would make me.


I will keep an eye open for showings. thanks, ray.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 12:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

do you like long takes? really long ones? ... really, really long ones?

I don't know what's happening to me, because my tolerance for long-held shots used to be so low that I needed films like Requiem for a Dream and Run Lola Run. Now, I'm to the point where Stalker's shots didn't really strike me as all that long, all told. Perhaps because so many of them are moving, panning, or tracking shots.

But, yeah, gorgeous film. As of yet one of only two Tarkovskys I've seen (Solaris), but I can't wait to catch Nostalghia and Mirror.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:03 (10 years ago) Permalink

i think it's pretty easy all told to train your eye to new aesthetic experiences, whether that means long held shots or anything else

although i suppose i prefer long shots that have a painterly aspect, that observes one or another principal of interesting composition--which really is most of the long take films that are most respected; i've seen a film by philippe garrel which seemed purposely drab and affectless and even artless in its long takes, and it tested my patience (i take that phrase seriously, i think it's good sometimes to test your patience)

i've never seen "nostalghia" or "the sacrifice"

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:13 (10 years ago) Permalink

this 'stalker' was being presented as an architectural film.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

RJG, you're totally welcome to come to the cinema whenever I go.

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'm not gay!

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:27 (10 years ago) Permalink

well, who is, really?

thanks. make me aware of upcoming trips!

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

when cozen is not at the cinema you will be barred from entry of course

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

Just piping in... Stalker presented as architectural film is quite spot on, as it is "about" moving in the space of the Zone, searching for the hidden room, moving along oblique routes.

Janne (Janne), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

ok. you know I go to the cinema too much tho, right?

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

And we were headed for such a beautiful friendship, elan.

clemenza, Sunday, 12 February 2012 18:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I know I should be beyond the point where I feel so personally about things outside of myself (I got shit for saying more or less the same thing about The Tree of Life on the sandbox movie thread) but I wonder if this movie doesn't work as a sort of litmus test about whether or not one feels sure they know what reality really is, or whether they (like I do) are in constant doubt as to what is real and what isn't. Mind, this is drawn from very little experience but I wonder if anyone else feels the same way.

tanuki, Sunday, 12 February 2012 20:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

also n.b. I don't think everyone who dislikes this movie is a terrible person, but maybe people who are sure of themselves also tend to dislike this movie.

tanuki, Sunday, 12 February 2012 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dunno, i'm quite unsure of myself in certain respects (and full of headstrong confidence in others), but i like stalker and the tree of life primarily because i find them beautiful. i can certainly see why others might dislike either or both. they're long, slow, abstract and arguably pretentious films.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Sunday, 12 February 2012 20:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ordered that Geoff Dyer book yesterday, really looking forward to it. One of my favourite writers on one of my favourite films.

I am using your worlds, Sunday, 12 February 2012 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's not like I think Stalker dislikers are bad or terrible! I just always feel like there's going to be a large gap between the way we experience things.

elan, Sunday, 12 February 2012 22:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

so with Zona out now, there'll be a Stalker screening in NYC Saturday eve with a panel (incl Walter Murch, Francine Prose, Phillip Lopate and Dyer) talking between the reels!

http://nyihumanities.org/event/tarkovsky-interruptus

G Kenny discusses the book (and Hoberman review of same) here:

http://somecamerunning.typepad.com/some_came_running/2012/03/geoff-dyers-zona.html

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 March 2012 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

um, I love Tarkovsky and shamefully have never watched all of the film. I think I'm going to attempt some multiple viewing, book reading, extravaganza

Walter Murch on a panel? I hope there's coverage or a recording of the talking.

valleys of your mind (mh), Thursday, 8 March 2012 15:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

just read abt that in the wsj & it was vague enough that i thought there was also a screening/talk on fri ;_; sounds rad tho

johnny crunch, Thursday, 8 March 2012 15:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Anyone read Dyer's bk?

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

no

he looks like a nudnik

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ws reading his wiki -- he's written on a wide range of subjects, you know.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes but i saw him talking abt stalker w/ m kermode on bbc hds benighted 'the culture show'

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

& i distrust ppl called geoff

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

the bldgblog guy is named geoff and he seems ok

valleys of your mind (mh), Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

in your opinion

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

ws saying it as something to distrust really - travel one min, jazz the next, now not only film but STALKER! Sounds like a mid-life crisis bk instead of a fully researced account of Tarkovsky and his (and Soviet cinema's) struggle w/the authorities.

Ah well..xxp

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 8 March 2012 23:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

there was one broadsheet review which was all 'less abt tarkovsky than abt geoff dyer' as if that might be more enticing

The term “hipster racism” from Carmen Van Kerckhove at Racialicious (nakhchivan), Friday, 9 March 2012 00:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've read books that ended up being semi-autobiographical about pretty boring people, this couldn't be worse

valleys of your mind (mh), Friday, 9 March 2012 00:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not the recommenation I was looking for!

xyzzzz__, Friday, 9 March 2012 09:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://somecamerunning.typepad.com/some_came_running/2012/03/tarkovsky-interruptus.html

"...this emboldened Slate's Dana Stevens, whose contributions up to this point had been inoffensive enough to be ignorable/forgettable, to chime in about the "weak writing" in the film."

Why is Dana Stevens invited to these things? n.b. I can't recall ever reading a Dana Stevens review but her talks on the Culture Gabfest are...lacking.

stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Sunday, 11 March 2012 06:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

"cultural vegetable."

Never heard this term before, only 10 year olds dislike all vegetables.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 March 2012 10:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

that phrase was at the center of an NYT Magazine-launched brouhaha over "difficult/boring" films last year.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 11 March 2012 14:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

There was this not exactly good article on slow cinema. Liked it ended w/Akerman although the quote doesn't sound intelligent.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 March 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

wow, Kenny wrote they couldn't even find a good print for the New School thing. Imagine how universal that will be 10 years from now.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 11 March 2012 21:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

is it true that they all died from cancers they picked up while filming in that place?? i can't imagine how wading neck-deep in sewer water in an abandoned hydroelectric plant could have seemed like a good idea ... didn't they have an actor's union?

― renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid)

tarkovsky, his wife, the DP, and the three lead actors all died within 15 yrs of this at relatively young ages iirc, at least three of them of cancer which i think was linked to the filming location (though not definitively.)

omar little, Sunday, 11 March 2012 22:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

A while back I read that it was some rare type of cancer. The fact that they all had it lent itself to the idea that it was caused by shared environmental exposure.

elan, Monday, 12 March 2012 00:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

From the Stalker wikipedia page:

Sound designer Vladimir Sharun recalls:
We were shooting near Tallinn in the area around the small river Jägala with a half-functioning hydroelectric station. Up the river was a chemical plant and it poured out poisonous liquids downstream. There is even this shot in Stalker: snow falling in the summer and white foam floating down the river. In fact it was some horrible poison. Many women in our crew got allergic reactions on their faces. Tarkovsky died from cancer of the right bronchial tube. And Tolya Solonitsyn too. That it was all connected to the location shooting for Stalker became clear to me when Larisa Tarkovskaya died from the same illness in Paris.[5]

elan, Monday, 12 March 2012 00:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh, there was another Dyer/screening today :p

http://www.movingimage.us/films/2012/03/11/detail/geoff-dyer-on-tarkovsky-cinema-and-life/

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 March 2012 00:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Have always heard about The Conquerer being a movie that was actually fatal for the people involved; had no idea the same happened with Stalker.

tanuki, Monday, 12 March 2012 01:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/mar/16/author-geoff-dyer-literary-establishment

^blood boils, etc.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 17 March 2012 08:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not really...just 'next', you know.

I am at fkn war w/proper spelling and punctuation tho'.

All nothing compared to the awfulness of people dying from the conditions surrounding the Stalker shoot. Was dimly aware of it when a camera man was talking about T and people who had passed on. A 5 min interview on a DVD that was a kinda gem. Wish I had that round here so I could remind myself of exactly what he said.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 17 March 2012 09:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

I read Zona today - I enjoyed it. It's pretty short (you can probably read it in less time than it takes to watch the film) but that's probably for the best. It was a lot lighter than I expected it to be - more of a cultural sorbet than a cultural vegetable.

windborne grey frogs (dowd), Saturday, 17 March 2012 22:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh, I forgot why I posted. A quote from Zona

"As such it would have rendered that line of Stalker's - 'Home at last' - rather odd. [footnote-] Or maybe not. In the years when I used to go to Burning Man in the Black Rock Desert, we were greeted at the festival entrance with the words 'Welcome Home!' and tears always welled up in my eyes because it was true, because I believed absolutely in the Temporal Autonomous Zone of Black Rock City."

windborne grey frogs (dowd), Saturday, 17 March 2012 22:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

^ interview here - more of a lamentation for people who passed on, love that shot of the lamp going off..

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 18 March 2012 01:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

inside report from fukushima nuclear reactor evacuation zone

Milton Parker, Thursday, 3 May 2012 23:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Roadside Picnic coming back into print (in English) for the first time in 30 years fwiw

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 3 May 2012 23:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

bought it at B&N a couple of weeks ago actually!

I cannot host as my wife hates Walker (latebloomer), Friday, 4 May 2012 07:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

More on the video game:

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/may/01/zone-chernobyl-tarkovsky-video-game/

toby, Friday, 4 May 2012 08:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

> Roadside Picnic coming back into print (in English) for the first time in 30 years fwiw

amazon.co.uk have always had copies. in fact there as SF Masterworks edition which must be newer as the imprint isn't 30 years old. (2007 it says)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roadside-Picnic-MASTERWORKS-Boris-Strugatsky/dp/0575079789/ref=sr_1_1

koogs, Friday, 4 May 2012 08:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I read the SF Masterworks edition in 2008.

treefell, Friday, 4 May 2012 12:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

My brother gave me the Geoff Dyer book for my birthday, but I haven't read it yet. Not sure what to expect.

Moodles, Friday, 4 May 2012 13:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

A heart-stopping, high-octane thrill ride that never let's up, that's what

bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Friday, 4 May 2012 17:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dyer's greatest regret in life = a good punchline, esp. 'cause you suspect he's serious.

I serve at the pleasure of Dr. Dre and a team of Sorbonne scientists. (R Baez), Friday, 4 May 2012 17:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

okay in AMERICA I should have said

xp

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 May 2012 17:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

the vid milton posted is amazing

ogmor, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

otm, completely mesmerising.

that mustardless plate (Bill A), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

i have an english PDF of roadside picnic ... one of the fort thunder guys had it downloadable on his website, i believe it was m4t br1nkm4n ... maybe it was even the fort thunder website itself?

seems to have been taken down now but i can share if anybody would like.

the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 20:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

kind of a bummer because it was where i'd go to read all of the teratoid heights comics

the late great, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

RIP providence

diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:09 (2 years ago) Permalink


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