What's A Bigger Cliche: "I Hate Mimes!" Or "I'm Scared Of Clowns!"

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I think both of these statements have passed into the realm of urban myth. I think there are plenty of people who have never even encountered a mime who say that they hate them, and plenty of people who say they are scared of clowns who have never actually been scared by a clown. It just seems like the thing to say. For years. I think the mime-hatred is older. I can't even remember the first time I saw a mime get abused in a movie, but it was years ago. And the creepiness of clowns seems to have been something that ReSearch book lovers and Gacey fans took and ran with a while back as well. They are cliches though. I can't even begin to count the times I've heard people say these things. Am I wrong in thinking that people are actually making up their hatred for both? Clowns and mimes are fairly avoidable. Yet, the reactions too them are often visceral as if they are around every corner. The mime cliche is actually fading a bit as it appears there are less mimes in the news and in public parks then there were in the 70's and earlier. The 70's seems to have been a prime mime boom era. (shields and yarnell, mummenshantz, etc,) I know there is a scary clown thread already, but this query of mine is broader in scope. (hahahahaha, i'm bored.) Oh, and i'm not saying that people weren't scared by clowns when they were young, but people were scared by LOTS of things when they were little! You don't see people hatin' on Santa! And yes, yes, I know, behind the mask of a clown lurks a deranged serial-killer. It's time for new cliches, please.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:38 (nineteen years ago) link

OTM!!

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I hate jugglers more

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I hate clowns and I'm scared of mimes. I like Peirots though. And Poirot.

Rumpy Pumpkin (rumpypumpkin), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:43 (nineteen years ago) link

E.T. sucks and is not for little kids.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:43 (nineteen years ago) link

They're just trying to make a buck, folks.

NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Shakes the Clown/the first Mr. Bungle album to thread.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I was afraid of Bob Dog on Mr. Rogers

HAMBURGER NEURON GROUP (ex machina), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Pennywise to thread

Rumpy Pumpkin (rumpypumpkin), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:48 (nineteen years ago) link

The thing I really don't like about mimes is their pants.

Clowns have never bothered me.

So the clown cliche is worse, because it doesn't make sense. There have only been a few scary clowns. But almost all mimes wear those high-waisted stretch pants.

dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Mummenshantz has a lot to answer for -- they were very creepy.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 15:57 (nineteen years ago) link

A good mime can be the cruelest thing ever.

Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Mummenshantz!! I forgot all about them. They were like my mom's only point of reference for a joke for years and years.

Allyzay, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:16 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost
I had this book when I was a child. *blushes*


http://www.lutterworth.com/lp/images/mime.jpg

Mimes are scary. Clowns are not. Mimes are silent = creepy.

Maria D., Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I liked Mummenschantz! I actually saw them do a live performance in 1984, they were great. That said they did provide the punchline to one of the best MST3K references ever:

*silhouettes on a wall show a security guard getting clobbered on the head by some nefarious person*

SERVO: When Mummenschantz goes bad.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:18 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.unl.edu/scarlet/v7n5/toilet.gif

See? Creepy!

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:19 (nineteen years ago) link

The toilet paper rolls could have been located somewhere else.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:20 (nineteen years ago) link

You should have been a Mummenschantz, Ned.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:21 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought that was a pic of The Residents

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:21 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Mar/03232003/images/artMummenschanz.jpg

Seriously are they mimes or clowns or something else entirely?

Allyzay, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Two things: once many years ago while trying to adopt a stray cat, a girlfriend and I ended up at some place where the woman in charge collected all the neighbourhood strays, to the tune of about 40. Besides the plastic covered furniture lamps and the ceramic lifesize great dane (along with all manner of mangled cats), she had about 20 portraits of crying clowns. It was quite a night.

In Montreal there was a group called "Clowns without Frontiers." One of them professed to me, already scarred by above incident, that if everybody just smiled a little more, the world would be a better place. I'm not a man driven to violence but....

And: "Mime is money." Shields and Yarnell anyone? They're still going I believe.

Guymauve (Guymauve), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not sure I want to know what they are.


x-post

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Oops- missed the s&y ref above.

Guymauve (Guymauve), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:23 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost dude don't even TALK about the Residents around me today.

Allyzay, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 16:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Ally listening to the Residents is a bemusing idea.

You should have been a Mummenschantz, Ned.

I'll take the money, sure! And nobody would know who I was!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:06 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.sushiesque.com/photos/middle_east_092803/dresden04.jpg

kephm, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:08 (nineteen years ago) link

The Blue Man Group can't hide behind that blue paint. They are mimes on the inside!

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:11 (nineteen years ago) link

And Jay Leno adores them, which makes them even creepier!

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link

scott is so scary otm that it fills me with delight

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link

do you think japanese teens roll their eyes and say, "oh my god, Kabuki is, like, sooooo creepy". Maybe its universal.

(or maybe they have noh-fear)

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link

mimes are great as long as they're not those stupid ones that mimic a statue which basically involves standing still. yeah mimic inanimate objects, good one.

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:18 (nineteen years ago) link

the new thing to say is that you are into clown sex

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:18 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm into clown sex

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:19 (nineteen years ago) link

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:23 (nineteen years ago) link

I think Mike Score having sex with clowns is what makes me slightly scared of them.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Mime sex would be creepier. It would be really quiet, and then you'd look at their face and they'd be mimicking having an orgasm but no sound would come out.

NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:25 (nineteen years ago) link

But I guess clowns might laugh at you. That would be bad.

NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:25 (nineteen years ago) link

clowns would get lipstick and white makeup all over your dick

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link

oops!

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Sex with goths has the same bad side-effects.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:27 (nineteen years ago) link

mimes will do that pretend to be pulling an infinite string thing to your dick

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:28 (nineteen years ago) link

clowns would get lipstick and white makeup all over your dick

... and the problem with that is?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:28 (nineteen years ago) link

You left out hipsters. It's a cliche to hate and deride fem queens, mimes, pierrots, clowns and hipsters. The, like, worst thing ever would be a homosexual hipster pierrot doing a silent clown act in whiteface, man. (If you're Beavis and Butthead, anyway.)

do you think japanese teens roll their eyes and say, "oh my god, Kabuki is, like, sooooo creepy". Maybe its universal.

I made an album in a style I called 'Spooky Kabuki' in Tokyo in 2002. When I took it in to play the A+R woman at my Japanese label, she said 'Momus, you have to be careful using this kabuki music. We Japanese don't like to hear it. We associate it with very old people, and compulsory school trips, and ghost stories, and museums.' (Of course, this is exactly what I like about it. For me, pop music never has enough death in it.)

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:35 (nineteen years ago) link

When you said "homosexual", did you actually mean "camp"? Because otherwise your worst thing ever doesn't work.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:40 (nineteen years ago) link

don't say sayonara, I wanna see ya tomorra.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link

When you said "homosexual", did you actually mean "camp"?

Naturally I meant Michael Jackson.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:44 (nineteen years ago) link

The, like, worst thing ever would be a homosexual hipster pierrot doing a silent clown act in whiteface, man

A bit like Leo Sayer? (*shudders*)

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Naturally I meant Michael Jackson.

No, what you described was Michael Jackson; I'm just trying to verify intent.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link

When I was in a band the singer wrote a song that rhymed Mummenschantz and circumstance.

lk (lawrence kansas), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:46 (nineteen years ago) link

If it wasn't already included as the closing credits theme when Shakes the Clown was invoked, Too Much Joy's Clowns ought to come to thread by itself.

In the lyrics, Tim declares that he hates clowns as much as he hates mimes, perhaps indicating that mime hatred is older.

Having studied theatre, I have to say a lot of the stuff associated with mimes technically can be pretty impressive as far as movement-based acting goes. (And in many cases studying mime is considered a very good thing to do for all actors... Sort of how football players may study ballet to increase strength and different kinds of coordination.) Certainly this doesn't make "trapped in an invisible box" any more interesting to the audience, but it's worth noting.

Clowns, on the other hand... Bah! It's really too bad that the classical notion of a clown has been replaced what we know as a bunch of chumps with white makeup and big red noses and floppy shoes. The clown (i.e. the character who tries very hard to entertain and fails so the audience laughs with him because they can see that he is genuinely trying and failing) can be quite funny, but it has nothing to do at all with making balloons into the shape of retarded bulbous giraffes.

Related to the classical clown figure, search also the buffoon: the character who is so obviously insane (and often also physically deformed) that he can make fun of your mother to your face and get a laugh instead of a left hook out of you. Now that's entertainment if you ask me.

martin m. (mushrush), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Wow El Diablo that picture made my day. I blame the movie "It" for a certain percentage of clown hatin' among my peers. Agreed that most feelings are cliched. Insane Clown Posse reactions, on the other hand...

Jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 17:57 (nineteen years ago) link

...are completely unustified and based upon the cruelest of stereotypes.

The Saddest Juggalo (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

...don't even get me started on them. Bleh.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

:-(

The Saddest Juggalo (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Rigoletto didn't make me run away in terror.

Jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Rigoletto was the original Juggalo.

The Saddest Juggalo (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Pictures of 19th century and early 20th century clowns are amazing. And a little spooky. Um, not that I have any on me. I lived in Philadelphia for 15 years, so there you found irrational (and occasionally justified) hatred of mummers! And the pictures of the original mummer's parades in Philly in the early part of the 20th century are also quite interesting and bizarre.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:19 (nineteen years ago) link

The, like, worst thing ever would be a homosexual hipster pierrot doing a silent clown act in whiteface, man

This explains the failure of The Centuries to really catch on with the kids.

sexyDancer, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Or Klaus Nomi for that matter.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Momus in trying to conceive of hipsters as a persecuted marginalized minority non-shockah

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:36 (nineteen years ago) link

momus doesn't really seem hip, or a hipster. I don't mean that as a sort of insult, but it does not seem to be a word which you'd think of in connection with momus.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:39 (nineteen years ago) link

"E.T. sucks and is not for little kids.
-- hstencil (hstenci...), June 8th, 2004."
holy shit this is the most OTM in life.

Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:42 (nineteen years ago) link

People who wear cosby sweaters aren't really hipsters, are they?

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Mimes aren't really creepy, they're just kind of stupid and pointless.

Clowns, however, are freaking sick. Yes, they're avoidable, but they're still just frightening as fuck.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh yes, there was a CSI episode about murdered clowns recently, too. if it is on CSI, it has passed past urban myth or cliche into total classic.

Possibly Kate Again (kate), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link

due to the overabundance of clowns and mimes lurking in the french quarter, i have been overexposed and have completely overcome my fear of mimes and can almost not shudder when a clown is around. cirque du soleil's allegria show, however, did involve me losing a piece of my soul to the narrator-ish clown. i think it had more to do with him being a dirty carny frenchman than a clown though.

Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link

"dirty carny frenchman" makes me think of Papa Lazaroux. What category does he fall into?

Jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link

the dangers of mine leave one vulnerable to...
http://www.sushiesque.com/photos/dresden_dolls_012504/dscn0700.html
...photographers

sexyDancer, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 19:00 (nineteen years ago) link

"Vulgar" -- the movie. About a clown who finds the children's party circuit really slim pickings, so he comes up with the idea to add cross-dressing to the act and advertise in the adult backgpages of the city altie. He'ss hired by a couple of white-trash psychopaths modelled on Frank Booth/Dennis Hopper...
and it goes downhill...

George Smith, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 19:02 (nineteen years ago) link

i'm pretty sure i've never actually seen a mime. i used to think they were a myth, like the yeti.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link

And somewhere in Jerry Lewis's house is his copy of The Day The Clown Cried. When, Jerry, when? When do we get to see it?

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 20:11 (nineteen years ago) link

phobias are weird anyway but the clown thing sort of gets me because it's an occupation, right? but people talk about clowns like it's a race?

ARL (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

In 1996, the FBI's Law Enforcement Bulletin published a paper entitled "Trends and Experiences in Computer Crime: Findings From a National Study." It cited a 1995 _April Fool's Day_ article in Datamation magazine as the source for its information on computer viruses.

The April 1, 1995 issue of Datamation featured a column of ridiculous and humorous stories that were clearly April Fool's jokes. (Clear, Crypt News guesses if you're not _too_ asleep at the wheel.) In addition to the virus jokes there is a news brief on the League of Information Systems Professionals or LISP, a "group" working to ensure that "Dilbert" is carried in all local newspapers. LISP is also said to be working for "the reinstatement of the slide rule, especially in belt-mounted leather cases . . ."

If this wasn't sufficiently absurd, consider that the FBI cited
numerous additional Datamation's April Fool's jokes in its national study on computer crime. In addition to joke viruses, the FBI also published news of a government dragnet in which federal agents arrested a dangerously successful hacker gang which victmized mimes.

"The hackers reportedly broke into a NASA computer responsible for controlling the Hubble telescope and are also known to have re-routed telephone calls from the White House to Marcel Marceau University, a miming institute," reads "Trends and Experiences in Computer-Related Crime."

"In one episode, the hackers broke into a NASA computer responsible for controlling the Hubble telescope, aimed the telescope at Earth and then proceeded to spy on a nudist colony near Camden, Maine. In another shocking case, the hackers rerouted telephone calls from the White House to Marcel Marceau University, an institution for mimes, based in Inabox, Montana," reports Datamation in the April Fool's Day issue.

Marty Moore at Datamation magazine laughed on recollection of the April 1, 1995 issue. "You mean someone published the . . . 'Marcel Marceau University' in a paper? Oh, n-o-o-o-o!"


The original on this is long and not overly concerned with mimes although it is a good example of academic and offical stupidity.

www.soci.niu.edu/~crypt/other/quant.htm

George Smith, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 20:50 (nineteen years ago) link

The mime cliche is actually fading a bit as it appears there are less mimes in the news


!

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link

unless of course they actually like it when I completely lose my rag and tell them that they're completely annoying the tits off of me

An interviewer from the Guardian asked him about it when he was on a interview tour of England in February and he fell completely silent. Just waited for the next question. You can get copies of the script on-line though - actual physical shooting scripts off eBay, or digital facsimiles, usually for free

yes I am somewhat obsessed by this

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 22:55 (nineteen years ago) link

I've read the script. I felt fear.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 22:55 (nineteen years ago) link

(J0hn: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!)

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 22:56 (nineteen years ago) link

When Copy And Paste Falls Into THE WRONG HANDS!

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 22:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I did notice that but I though it was conceptual at first.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought maybe he was quoting from the interview.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

No, then that would have to end with a quote saying, "OH MRS. LADY! DOES ANYONE EVER ANNOY THE TITS OFF YOU?"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I've tried to make do with getting really really stoned and watching Hardly Working. Where Jerry plays, yes, a clown. (But it isn't much of a substitute.)

http://www.jerrylewiscomedy.com/film_hardly_working.htm

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 8 June 2004 23:18 (nineteen years ago) link

"I made an album in a style I called 'Spooky Kabuki' in Tokyo in 2002."

Of *course* you did

Patrick Kinghorn, Tuesday, 8 June 2004 23:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I am a clown. I went to clown classes - my clown name is Mendacity. i have not "clowned" in many years - but still, i feel that you must all know the truth - I AM A CLOWN.

aimurchie, Wednesday, 9 June 2004 01:28 (nineteen years ago) link

hahaha

oops

somebody take this vodka away from me b4 things get out of hand

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 01:34 (nineteen years ago) link

When I was very little, a friend convinced me that clowns were born the way they are. Eventually he got me round to the fact they are made in a factory.

This is part of the reason I find them sinister. I always think they must be very sad creatures, doomed from birth to exist as clowns, never to feel the true warmth and love of a family and relying on public self-harm in order to get laughs - the only type of appreciation they have ever received.

dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 09:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I just need to add, best ILX question in MONTHS.

NA (Nick A.), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 14:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I am scared witless of clowns, and masks too, so those pierrot masks give me the screaming abdabs.

Madchen to thread (and Jonnie I think - who is also a little petrified of clowns) to verify my screaming like a girl and running away when I spotted a clown stacking shelves in Sainsbury's once

chris (chris), Wednesday, 9 June 2004 14:07 (nineteen years ago) link


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