Uh oh. Pledge of Allegiance declared unconstitutional

I never found out the reason the Supreme Court wouldn't rule... does this mean they have to stop until the Supreme Court rules on it?

but that's why he's doing it on behalf of the 3 anonymous parents this time, right - because they will have standing before the court?

The funny part is that "United States of America" and "under god" are possibly the only two parts of this thing that little kids actually understand and say properly: apart from that it's all "fun Asians, invisible, with Hilary and moustache for balls."

Not that I don't think there's something problematic about making the kids hear "under God" in the pledge every day, and being virtually coerced to say it - I think there definitely is.

Just found this article - West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette

this is actually a pretty important legal principle, at least according to the john roberts testimony excerpts i saw yesterday on The News Hour!

That said, I'm not sure this is a great time for this particular cultural bloodbath. I respect Newdow's persistence and of course I think he's right, but given everything else on the Culture War agenda, this is a mostly symbolic fight that will mostly serve as a massive organizing and fundraising incentive for the Christian right.

Yes, unlike gay marriage. Gay marriage is not a largely symbolic issue, there are real legal civil rights at stake that have significant effects on people's day to day lives. There are rights at stake the Pledge, I know, but the gains are a lot smaller for the amount of grief we're going to have to endure over all this. I mean, part of me is glad Newdow is pushing it, but part of me kind of wishes we could hold off on this battle until a slightly more sane time. But whatever. I guess we're gonna have to deal with these guys sooner or later, might as well do it all at once.

This was the biggest mystery I ever faced upon emigration as a child.

exactly. the blowback from this cause even greater problems.

It's just weird that these are also the "anti-big-government" folks.??

Yeah, but Tracer, these guys have never held a sincere, coherent drive for "less big govt". it's never been more than a rallying cry for conservatives to defund social programs that they don't like. None of these guys ever called for the shrinking of the army or the fbi to where it can be drowned in a bathtub. Once they finally got in charge, hey, this gubmint thing ain't too bad...

on a related note, Delay talking about the "ongoing victory" of fiscal conservatism.

It's just another small point of indoctrination. You're that much smaller because we made you say the pledge. This goes beyond the whole god thing, but it's just bullying. Plus, I'm not loyal to a friggin' flag. Maybe if kids were swearing to respect the constitution or something, I'd be okay with it, but they're not.

When Bellamy wrote his Pledge in August, 1892, he was well aware of the Balch Pledge. In 1892 George T. Balch was the most influential person in the development of a patriotic flag ritual for the classroom. He was a New York City auditor and had developed a patriotic verbal flag salute and ritual, the first verbal flag salute used in American public schools. The students in his New York Public Schools gave his "American Patriotic Salute" as follows: students touched first their foreheads, then their hearts, reciting, "We give our Heads - and our Hearts -to God and our Country." Then with a right arm outstretched and palms down in the direction of the flag, they competed the salute "One Country! One Language! One Flag!"

...ummm.

http://image.pathfinder.com/time/europe/photoessays/bono/images/flag.jpg

oh fuck this guy

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-mayor-tosses-man-for-not-standing-for-pledge-of-20140829,0,80941.story

Though Rees said he did not know Richardson by name, he recognized him from previous meetings as the man who sits in the front row and then leaves after the invocation and pledge.

...

The Wisconsin-based atheist group Freedom from Religion Foundation emailed the mayor and the police chief asking both to explain at the next meeting that citizens are within their rights to stay seated for the pledge.

The email said the man who was asked to leave the meeting is a member of that organization.

The group also promised to attend the commission's next meeting and vowed to stay seated during both the invocation and pledge to protest "these egregious violations of the Constitution," according to the email, sent by its staff attorney Andrew Seidel.

good lord

Florida, ahead of the curve

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sixth-grader-arrested-florida-after-refusal-participate-pledge-allegiance-led-n972671

the state with the prettiest name!

am reluctant to spread that story, just because as the article alludes, there may very well be "more to it" (in the fashion perhaps of the texas clock kid).... but jeez. i made a point of not standing for or saying the pledge in my elementary school (they didn't bother w/ it in high school) and sometimes i'd get a little pushback from other students(!) but never, as i recall, from teachers.

the thing that rings true in that article is that the substitute teacher seems like a dumbfuck. no offense to subs in general, many of whom are good people struggling in a shit job, but many of the subs in my (public) schools were obvious nepotism hires who probably could barely pass a background check these days. they were often total idiots who the students (esp. honors students) ran roughshod over.

and i can totally imagine one having a #MAGA seizure in response to a mild provocation from a (black) student.

teacher seems like a dumbfuck

A quick read of the article strongly suggests the teacher had no clue how to recognize a teachable moment and nothing of value to teach anyway.

By way of contrast, my mom was a first grade teacher in a school full of poor and minority kids and she handled the pledge with delicate aplomb, explaining to her six year olds that the words "with liberty and justice for all" described what we wanted the country to be like and what we hoped would be true, even if it was not always true.