― mike hanle y, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
New reprint series, _Krazy & Ignatz_, with Chris Ware book design, will be out shortly from Fantagraphics, incidentally.
― Douglas, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― ethan, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― , Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dave k, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
strangely, I too have considered a Krazy tat - ignaz chucking a brick no less.
Has anybody seen the big Sunday Strip that concerns the ship load of Owls (a ship that passes in the night) forever fleeing the encroach of day, sailing around the Globe as night moves on. Ace
― misterjones, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Andrew L, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Graham, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Precisely.
― Mike Hanle y, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― ducklingmonster, Monday, 4 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Justyn Dillingham, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― mike hanle y, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
1. THE language- baroque and beautiful, has to be repeated to onesself many times to truly appreciate it 2. The proto-psychadelic mesa landscapes of Coconino COunty - A moon and landscape that changes in every panel. 3. The sweet simplicity of the storyline - Dog loves cat, Cat loves mouse, mouse hates cat, mouse beans cat with brick, Dog arrests cat and puts him in Jail. repeat ad infinitum...Amazingly this made for decades of astonishingly good strip. 4. The late period art work produced as GH became blind which looks like he worked on a scratchboard, removing the black to reveal the white, giving it a woodcut quality. 5. For teaching me how to spell 'Dollink' properly
I hope that explains it, Dollinks.
― misterjones, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Momus, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
by the way the word "influenced" is not allowed
― mark s, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― ethan, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Attracted as I am to the idea of relentless modernism always trumping the past, let me put it in these terms: I'll take Krazy Kat any day of the millennium over the sheer tedium that is Mutts, if that makes you feel any better.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Douglas, Tuesday, 5 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― mark s, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― ethan, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
The guy that does that terrible 'Mutts' strip actually wrote a v. good bk on Herriman abt ten years, so perhaps he knows something Ethan doesn't. It reprints some of Herriman's handcoloured Sunday pages, and they're bleedin' bootiful.
Saying that, KK is by no means as exceptional as the Gopnicks of this world like to think. Cliff Sterret's 'Polly and Her Pals', to name one v. obv. example, is just as 'modernist' (or otherwise) as KK, and Windsor McCay was doing the whole comic strip surrealism thing long before Herriman.
I've never really 'got' 'Pogo' - lovely drawings (in the Dell comics style) but neither as funny or as clever as it likes to think it is. Maybe its an American thing - I know there's lots of 'political satire' in 'Pogo' that prob. doesn't travel. For brilliant drawings and boffo yocks, give me Seegar's 'Thimble Theater' (w/ Popeye) any day.
― Andrew L, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
you could just about make a proto-proto- modernist argt for it a la Douanier Rousseau/Grandma Moses/Satie, or a Primitive Modernist argt a la John Lee Hooker/Howlin Wolf (but where's the electricity?)
I think I will go WAY out on a bonkers Mike Davis limb and conjoin it — via California Anti-Urban Gothic — to LA Noir, for its violence, its disconnected poetry and its never-quite displaced racial-sexual undercurrents. It's bettah than fckin Chinatown anyday.
McKay as draughtsman, peerless, and gentle fantasist, yup, he's up there too, but KK and GH are the real deal.
― misterjones, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Momus, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― mike hanle y, Wednesday, 6 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
i'm surprised to see they just reissued the (extremely ODD) '60s cartoon version of this on dvd.
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 08:28 (twenty years ago) link
what's it like?
― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 09:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 14:54 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 15:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 16:09 (twenty years ago) link
well, it's like the comic strip, only it's a cheap-looking cartoon (made by the same studio that made the later made-for-TV Popeyes, if that tells you anything). and Krazy Kat is a gurl cat from Texas who lisps a lot. and there's a lot of stupid old-cartoon-type plots - Ignatz trying to give up throwing bricks at Krazy, western parodies, that kind of thing. it's really, really, really weird. i have a bargain-bin videotape with about 10 of them.
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 4 February 2004 17:07 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 5 February 2004 11:37 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 5 February 2004 11:38 (twenty years ago) link
― hmmm, Thursday, 5 February 2004 12:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 5 February 2004 13:04 (twenty years ago) link
i interviewed youn for an article about a KK-related reading she was giving at my university several years ago. i remember nothing about what she was like on the phone (nice, i guess, otherwise i'd remember), but the poetry was decent.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 18 October 2010 21:00 (thirteen years ago) link
weird I have been a Krazy Kat fan since I was a kid, have read tons of collections, seen photos of him, etc. and yet I had never realized before yesterday that he was black.
You've seen photos of a comic strip character?
― Tuomas, Monday, 18 October 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
he means George Herriman, the creator of Krazy Kat.
― elephant rob, Monday, 18 October 2010 21:55 (thirteen years ago) link
and it was in something famously shitty indie cartoonist Bill Watterson wrote that I first heard about Krazy Kat. Though I didn't get to read much of it until Ware and Fantagraphics reissued them, so thank god for indie comics i say.
― elephant rob, Monday, 18 October 2010 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link
Ah, okay. Now that I think of it, I remember reading an article about Herriman's racial identity... IIRC he was a light-skinned black man and was able to pass as white for most of his adult life.
― Tuomas, Monday, 18 October 2010 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link
(x-post)
― Tuomas, Monday, 18 October 2010 22:02 (thirteen years ago) link
[/Tuomas]
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Monday, 18 October 2010 22:04 (thirteen years ago) link
Michael Tisserand is working on a book about Herriman's race, which is a complex subject I gather. More here: http://dailycartoonist.com/index.php/2010/10/15/festival-of-cartoon-art-keynote-on-george-herriman/
― elephant rob, Monday, 18 October 2010 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, according to this article it didn't even become common knowledge his parents were "colored" until 1971:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3666365/Herriman-Cartoonist-who-equalled-Cervantes.html
― Tuomas, Monday, 18 October 2010 22:10 (thirteen years ago) link
weird I have been a Krazy Kat fan since I was a kid, have read tons of collections, seen photos of him, etc. and yet I had never realized before yesterday that he was black
After all these posts I figure out that you mean George Herriman was black. I thought you meant Krazy was. I just thought I'd whistle past that one. I mean, I was surprised you were this comfy out & out calling Krazy a "he"! Oh, me.
― 17th Century Catholic Spain (Abbbottt), Monday, 18 October 2010 22:38 (thirteen years ago) link
i know monica and heard a reading of that book with matmos performingdunno if i can recommend the poetry? the music was awesomei think herriman is generally thought of as mestizo or black depending on what point you're trying to make.
― Brick Frog! (forksclovetofu), Monday, 18 October 2010 22:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Herriman always seemed like a very mysterious guy to me. I knew he was Creole before this thread but I'm not sure where I learned that.
― 17th Century Catholic Spain (Abbbottt), Monday, 18 October 2010 22:42 (thirteen years ago) link
stonar
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 19 October 2010 04:19 (thirteen years ago) link
all that "tiger tea" i mean really
― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Tuesday, 19 October 2010 04:20 (thirteen years ago) link
What else is good in the way that Krazy Kat is?
― Pizzataco Five (admrl), Thursday, 1 September 2011 21:47 (twelve years ago) link
lionel fyninger's work?
― thank got forks showed up (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 1 September 2011 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
ok...who is that?
― Pizzataco Five (admrl), Thursday, 1 September 2011 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
I just want to say that I reread my Krazy Kat anthology book a couple months ago and I grew a new found appreciation for Herriman's works. The black and white era has some great art. It's still not a very funny strip (like how Tom & Jerry never had any real laughs for me) but it's a hell of a lot better than Tom and Jerry and much more creative
― that's cute, but it's WRONG (CaptainLorax), Thursday, 1 September 2011 21:55 (twelve years ago) link
― Pizzataco Five (admrl), Thursday, September 1, 2011 4:47 PM (11 minutes ago)
I know there are dissenters on ilx, but Richard Thompson's "Cul de Sac".http://www.gocomics.com/culdesac/
― Halal Spaceboy (WmC), Thursday, 1 September 2011 22:02 (twelve years ago) link
Martin Skidmore loved Krazy Kat, as he says above, and wrote a long and thoughtful piece on Herriman and Modernism late last year, at FA. There's things in it I wanted to argue about with him, a bit, but of course he became ill round about then, and somehow after that there was never the time :(
― mark s, Thursday, 1 September 2011 22:07 (twelve years ago) link
cliff sterrett's polly and her pals is prob the closest contemporary strip to herriman's style, tho the setting is v. different:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lPBRHZBGm-M/SfCV8l5Y-RI/AAAAAAAAA98/qq5cp_iDRPk/s400/sterett_water.gif
pogo by walt kelly has some of the same linguistic play as herriman, tho' it is v. deeply embedded in then-contemporary political satire. fantagraphics will start issuing a complete Pogo later on in the year.
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 1 September 2011 22:43 (twelve years ago) link
I'm tempted to say Gasoline Alley/Walt & Skeezix after about Year 2.
― 50,000 raspberries with the face of Peter Ndlovu (aldo), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
cartoonistst had much more real estate in the paper in those days
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:13 (twelve years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/pj6h1.jpg
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:20 (twelve years ago) link
adamrl, have you seen the Dan Nadel-edited anthology Art Out of Time: Unknown Comics Visionaries, 1900-1969? That has a nice selection of obscure and often deeply strange early American comic strip, inc a generous slice of a strip called White Boy by Garrett Price (otherwise only found in the similarly excellent Smithsonian Anthology of American Newspaper Strips). Again, to my mind that has some of the same 'feel' as Krazy Kat:
http://lambiek.net/artists/p/price_garrett/price_whiteboy2.jpg
― Ward Fowler, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:35 (twelve years ago) link
Smithsonian Anthology of American Newspaper Strips)
I had this as a kid!
― did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 20:38 (twelve years ago) link
well you were a very lucky lil latham
there's also the Smithsonian Anthology of Comic Books, which has things like Krigstein's 'Master Race', as reviewed here by Martin Skidmore
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/wedge/2008/09/comics-a-beginners-guide-crimesuspense-thrillers/
― Ward Fowler, Friday, 2 September 2011 20:53 (twelve years ago) link
xpost-ish:
I picked up The Smithsonian Collection Of Newspaper Comics last weekend for three dollars, beating out my last recordholder for bargain hunting: Kramers Ergot #5 (also three dollars).
Jeez louise, it is a marvel.
― "Please let your friends know about it!!" (R Baez), Friday, 2 September 2011 23:21 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i had both of those books as a kid. also COMIX a History of comic books in america, which was dope.
― thank got forks showed up (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 3 September 2011 14:12 (twelve years ago) link
and the Penguin book of comics, another must have.
― thank got forks showed up (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 3 September 2011 14:13 (twelve years ago) link
these are all great great choices for anyone who wants to read more classic comic strips (the two smithsonian books changed my life) but it's interesting that none of them are really much like krazy kat. herriman really is totally sui generis.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:47 (twelve years ago) link
I had never heard of lionel fyninger till I went to the Whitney the other day to see the Cory Archangel show and checked out the rest. Lionel's work blew me away. It predates Krazy Kat and Polly and Her Pals (and a lot of other stuff) right? So if you want to know how all kinds of german expressionist modern artwork influences emerged in the american comic strip, maybe we should look at the german expressionist artist who dabbled in american comic strips near their birth? Some of it was very Little Nemo, but it had a more surreal/expressionist Krazy Kat quality.
― dan selzer, Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:56 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantagraphics/412818782/in/photostream/
― dan selzer, Saturday, 3 September 2011 18:58 (twelve years ago) link
I was able to get a copy of the Feininger in the mid-90s from (I think) Bud Plant. Really impressive and odd. It's amazing to look at som nay of those early strips by all sorts of people - before the form was codified it seemed so open to anything. Sure helped to have full pages, but in general the variation is incredible.
― EZ Snappin, Saturday, 3 September 2011 19:20 (twelve years ago) link
i think i have a spare copy of the complete feininger comics book if anyone wants to buy it from me.
― thank got forks showed up (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 4 September 2011 05:39 (twelve years ago) link
I would if I had any money.
Just to return to Feininger for a moment. The history confuses me a bit. Born in New York. Moved to Germany. Started doing political stuff in germany, then comic strips that appeared in american newspapers. Then he was a major player in expressionism, an instructor at Bauhaus. Then after being declared "degenerate" by the Nazi's he moved to NY where he continued to paint. He made a few wooden models for a german toy train company that weren't produced, but kept making them, and one of the best parts of the exhibit at the Whitney is the huge collection of wooden toys he made for his family over 40 years. Trains, little train depots, tiny people that look like they're right out of an early comic strip. Pretty great.
― dan selzer, Sunday, 4 September 2011 06:02 (twelve years ago) link
the last strip ran 70 years ago today. can't find it online, but if you've never seen it it's one of the eeriest and most poignant endings to any comic i've ever seen.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 26 June 2014 06:44 (nine years ago) link
I've been slowly making my way through the Sundays chronologically over the past few years but I couldn't resist peeking at the last one and yeah, it's pretty damn eerie! Wish it was online...
― cwkiii, Thursday, 26 June 2014 18:55 (nine years ago) link
Huh, that is pretty eerie/poignant -- kind of follows from the one the week before as well.
― How Suarez's biting affects housing prices, in 3 charts (WilliamC), Thursday, 26 June 2014 23:06 (nine years ago) link
found it:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3229/2704014905_1fb85b89c1.jpg
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 26 June 2014 23:49 (nine years ago) link
of the available collections, what would be a good place for a Krazy Kat neophyte to begin?
― The Littlest Boho (stevie), Friday, 27 June 2014 08:11 (nine years ago) link
Krazy and Ignatz 1916-1918 is a pretty good starting point imo.
― cwkiii, Friday, 27 June 2014 12:03 (nine years ago) link
This collection has a nice overview of his work. If you just want the comics, any of the collections from 1916 to 1924 or 1925 will be great, they tend to have his most expansive and experimental work, before the his pages got more standardized.
― JoeStork, Friday, 27 June 2014 17:09 (nine years ago) link
^^^ yeah that book is terrific. really you can't go wrong with any of the collections, but the earlier ones are best to start with -- the later color sunday pages are so stripped-down and succinct that they're almost opaque at times if you don't already know the characters and their relationships.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 27 June 2014 17:32 (nine years ago) link
nb my post from this morning was made before I had any coffee so I totally forgot about that book, which was actually the first one I owned, too, and is a great starting point, probably better than a collection because there's a pretty good bio and tons of examples of his pre-KK stuff.
― cwkiii, Friday, 27 June 2014 18:53 (nine years ago) link
lovely, thanks for the recommendations!
― The Littlest Boho (stevie), Friday, 27 June 2014 22:25 (nine years ago) link
If you just want the comics, any of the collections from 1916 to 1924 or 1925 will be great, they tend to have his most expansive and experimental work, before the his pages got more standardized.
working my way through these and they are so endlessly entertaining, love the Herbert Hoover jokes
― ro✧✧✧@il✧✧✧.c✧✧ (sleeve), Friday, 29 July 2016 05:17 (seven years ago) link
new Herriman bio
http://www.nola.com/arts/index.ssf/2016/11/krazy_kat_herriman_tisserandne.html
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 December 2016 18:24 (seven years ago) link
remarkable thread here
During this time I want to offer you one of the purest expressions of grief and faith I've ever seen, which is a Krazy Kat comic by George Herriman. 1/7 pic.twitter.com/31NtwwWiIf— Michael Tisserand (@m_tisserand) April 3, 2020
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 4 April 2020 23:53 (four years ago) link