socal vs. norcal

Central Coast, obv.

BAKERSFIELD

i apologize for nothing

well okay I apologize for obnoxious hippies

I meant socal apologism

Norcal. Fuck the rest of Californa.

http://www.banderasnews.com/0807/images/sur13.jpg

State of Jefferson 4EVER

norcal needs apologism for its lack of apologism tho

Socal is soooo much less odious when I don't have to go down there every other fucking week.

i like em both, tbh. but i'd probably go w/ norcal

"norcal needs apologism for its lack of apologism tho"

No we don't.

I admit when I say Norcal I mean SF. The rest of Northern California is pretty meh.

i like socal but it appears most of the good jobs in california (the ones i'm looking for) are in the bay area and sacramento.

i dunno, i haven't spent a ton of time in "norcal" proper; i was under the impression that the bay area was part of the central valley.

Not...really.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I love norcal not just SF

the 199 is the most beautiful stretch of road I've ever been on

i dunno, i haven't spent a ton of time in "norcal" proper; i was under the impression that the bay area was part of the central valley.

Hahahaha! Troll award for today!

SoCal, but I'll give a big ups to the Central Coast, too. Big Sur, San Simeon and SLO were gorgeous last weekend.

Yeah, we like cows in SF. What fucking of it?

and yes, I regard anything north of San Jose to be NorCal, anything south, not.

santa cruz is more norcal than san jose is imo

Eureka is Alaka, dude.

BAKERSFIELD

If I had a dime for every joke he's made about B-field in the last few weeks, I'd have about enough money to park for 24 minutes in the East Bay.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/3168273446_1243a8d7e5_o.jpg

are there any redwoods south of Santa Cruz...?

Bakersfield at least had a great country music scene. Total shithole now though.

Total shithole now though.

Aw, don't judge it just by the odor.

Alright, north of Carmel. Ned, you are from the Maryland/Missouri of California.

xp It's also the color of a shithole though.

I'm judging it based on my memories of visiting a family's cattle farm there when I was 10

x-post

two states, we want two states

That would solve so many problems.

And probably create new ones too, but still.

thanks for the water norcal

for the purposes of this poll, I'm defining norcal as anything north of SLO and socal as anything south.

SLO itself = no man's land where peace treaties can be made. and uh, Bakersfield goes to whoever loses.

Yeah, two states, and maybe we can exchange Eurekaland for parts of Oregon.

the CA county map provides a very clear hint to where northern california ends and southern california begins:

http://www.cagenweb.com/plumas/map_files/image007.gif

SFian: We HATE those Angelinos!

LAian: Who did you say hates us?

Shakey mentioned it above, but it's worth repeating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yreka,_California

In November 1941, Yreka was designated as the capital of the proposed State of Jefferson, a secession movement along the Oregon and California border that has gained cultural traction in the following decades.

That's awesome. I never realized the straight line.

Pretty close, too.

Kingds/Tulare/Inyo seem more SoCal to me, but I can accept being forced to include them for this exercise.

the state of jefferson is a retarded idea. it would have the population of oakland.

That county map gives norcal a majority of the state. To compensate, socal can have Fresno County and East.

It would be more retarded if it had Oakland's actual population ... including its civil servants.

i guess the key for me here is where would i want to live in socal outside of l.a., and where would i want to live in norcal outside of the bay area? the answers would be nowhere and several places, respectively, so i choose norcal.

That county map gives norcal a majority of the state. To compensate, socal can have Fresno County and East.

No way. Parts of Fresno Co. extend further north than Southern San Francisco Co.

We won't take Fresno Co. without compensation.

i guess the key for me here is where would i want to live in socal outside of l.a., and where would i want to live in norcal outside of the bay area? the answers would be nowhere and several places, respectively, so i choose norcal.

santa barbara? san luis obispo? san diego? pomona?

Options abound down here, man!

Hahahaha! Troll award for today!

lolol i was thinking more of the inland counties and of the fact that the bay area is still south of sacto (which is often referred to as central valley even if it is clearly in the northern half of the state). i've only lived in california for three years though, sorry to be a gabbneb.

That county map gives norcal a majority of the state. To compensate, socal can have Fresno County and East.

Fixed:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8042/cali.png

xp BLAM: we'll keep Madera county, how's that?

Alex, most of Norcal is car-centric, too. Trying to get around San Jose without a car is pretty depressing.

It's certainly not typical at all, Alex, but I wouldn't pretend otherwise. I of course wish it was more replicable, though, and that's precisely why I support transit initiatives and the like -- and even something as relatively limited as Measure M down here in the county itself is essentially, as it's asked the county, twice, to ask for and then extend a sales tax increase to support local road, rail and bus systems and maintenance. In both cases they passed and made the two-thirds majority necessary, however razor thin at points -- it's a sign that there is awareness and interest, even here. More can and should be done but I'll take some over none.

Left out a word or two there, should be 'essentially just that'

l.a. county got screwed out of its measure r money (a 1/2-cent sales tax increase that was MEANT to go to funding new transit infrastructure). when the state was doing its budget, it allocated exactly zip to l.a. transit and decided it would use the measure r funds to shore up the operating deficit. er, that's not what it's for!! thanks for stealing something so hard-fought from us.

if i'm ranting, it's because this issue is close to my heart. i love it here, but fuck a "car culture."

i love it here, but fuck a "car culture."

Yes, and yes again. There is something to be said for trying -- however haphazardly sometimes -- to be a role model. There have been instances where friends, either for medical or other reasons, have found themselves carless and have been absolutely convinced there's no way they could get around. Being able to show them they can -- certainly there's a little planning that'll always be necessary, no question of it -- is worth it.

oh, for walkability stans, this is going on:

Trekking Through Great Neighborhoods

Do you enjoy walking around "great places" and "great neighborhoods", and then want to replicate some of those amazing ideas you've learned for your own community?

The California Planning Foundation (CPF) is proud to present three distinctive walking tours in three great communities. These sustainability walking tours will take place in Oakland, Pasadena, and San Diego on Friday, April 3 from 9am to 4pm. 6 CM credits are pending on these CPF professional development workshops.

The San Diego tour will focus on the Hillcrest neighborhood named as one of APA's Great Places Neighborhoods for its diverse, urbane, and trendsetting characteristics. Downtown Pasadena draws on the successful efforts in the integration of redevelopment and green buildings. Sustainability is the key for the Oakland tour that includes talks on green businesses and green collar jobs, and a visit to a local food cooperative.

Last year, over 40 college planning students throughout California received scholarships and awards. Please continue to support this vital program by attending the walking tours as the proceeds will go directly towards funding the very important CPF scholarship program.

Don't miss the opportunity to attend one of the three remarkable walking tours. For additional information and to register, please to go www.californiaplanningfoundation.org/CPFWorkshop2009.pdf

i love it here, but fuck a "car culture."

and i want to clarify that "car culture" is in quotes for a reason. cars are not the enemy, it's the defeatist/arrogant mindset of so many socal people who believe that because the automobile was central to much of a place's early planning, that it necessarily has to (or should) stay that way forever.

All I know about California is two trips to SF for a total of maybe 9 days, four of which were last week. In my time there I heard at least four or five people talk shit about LA and wonder why anyone would ever want to live there or even visit. Which is kind of funny after living in a couple of pretty, less expensive, reasonably-close-to-California places where anything California related, north or south, is despised moving in and jacking up the cost of real estate.

"Californian" is also apparently fightin' words:
http://i44.tinypic.com/nlr5zs.gif

also: cars turn normal people into complete raging d-bags

also: cars turn normal people into complete raging d-bags

This is one opinion.

I, for one, have not experienced this phenomenon.

As to say, I have not become a raging d-bag.

have you tried to park a car in San Francisco?

you know what also sucks about california? prop 13. (unless you're a homeowner who bought a long time ago in a down market and are still paying taxes proportional to that original assessed value; then prop 13 fucking rules.)

good source of funding for public projects? out the window. thus, sales tax is a really big deal here.

there's this thing called road rage, blam!

Hey did someone say road rage:

A 23-year-old man was in custody today following a bizarre road rage incident in Toluca Lake. Sarkis Ambartsumyan was driving on the 101 Freeway at about 3:45 p.m. Tuesday when he got into an argument with another driver, police said.

Ambartsumyan pulled out a handgun and fired several rounds at the other man as they neared the Cahuenga Boulevard exit, police said. The victim, who was struck in the hand, followed Ambartsumyan and tried to get his license plate number as the suspect drove wildly, said Sgt. Ben Alonso of the Los Angeles Police Department.

Ambartsumyan got into a brief collision near Cahuenga Boulevard and Bloomfield Street and "then drove westbound and pulled into an auto body shop," Alonso said.

The victim continued to follow Ambartsumyan and flagged down a Los Angeles Fire Department captain, who saw Ambartsumyan flee the auto body shop. The fire captain notified police, who set up a perimeter and eventually took Ambartsumyan into custody, Alonso said.

Police said a 9-millimeter handgun was recovered, and the victim was taken to a hospital in stable condition. Bail for Ambartsumyan was set at $500,000.

Of course, this could all be explained by it being Toluca Lake.

In the 2003 California recall election in which Arnold Schwarzenegger was elected governor, his advisor Warren Buffett suggested that Proposition 13 be repealed or changed as a method of balancing the state's budget. Schwarzenegger, believing that taking such a step would be to touch a political third rail that could end his gubernatorial career, said, "I told Warren that if he mentions Proposition 13 again he has to do 500 sit-ups."[citation needed] A 2004 Los Angeles Times Magazine cover story that detailed the proposition's damaging effects and advocated its repeal drew heavy criticism from its supporters.

< /policy wonk>

prop 13 does suck. it really screwed schools over until they passed some other proposition, and those two combined are partly what led to all those budget deficits.

Hooray oh wait.

The dysfunction of California's public funding would be hilarious if the consequences weren't so grim in many areas. Black humor is the only correct response to keep from exploding in frustration, and even that only goes so far.

we had to vote in a 1.5% sales tax to fund public hospitals in the county. We have the highest sales tax in the state, though so does El Cajon.

we had to vote in a 1.5% sales tax to fund public hospitals in the county. We have the highest sales tax in the state, though so does El Cajon.

LA has a very long history of killing (and eating LOL) their public transit systems.

the whole state of california needs to get over itself; our governor is the co-star of twins

― NYSE:JAH (get bent), Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:25 PM (2 hours ago)

this was rather pointlessly driven by socal politicians invoking recall and Arnold's narrow victory was propped up by the counties of Orange and LA almost exclusively.

Wow, El Cajon has the highest sales tax of any city in California now? Wow, things have changed since I moved outta that box.

ComicCon vs. WonderCon

gray davis, the last american hero

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38678000/jpg/_38678831_gray1-ap-300.jpg

see what i mean

My perspective as someone who was born/raised in San Diego and went to college in Berkeley is that San Fransisco is a really well executed (maybe the best executed, but NYC is probably better) American city, while LA (and SoCal in general) is in it's own category, like it really doesn't belong in the category 'American City'. Furthermore, all the things that I think of as quintessentially Californian (with a couple of exceptions: hippies, for one) all have their genesis in SoCal culture.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

haters

score one for wheelchair access!

Not actually wanting to revive this particular conversation but seeing as both myself and mrs adamrl have the errr, blessing of very flexible schedules, we are thinking of maybe doing a weeklong road trip of some places in (mostly Northern) CA we still haven't seen. Potential itinerary is LA--->Sequoias-->Yosemite--->Tahoe--->Shasta---Humboldt/Mendocino--->SF---->LA. Obviously, we know SF and Yosemite pretty well, but she wants to do Tahoe and I want to see mystical canyons of redwoods floating with mist. We also feel like we've pretty much covered the Central Coast so will fast track it south from SF. Anyone ITT know where is best to stay for exploring the Redwoods? Eureka and Arcata look pretty grim but I guess that's to be expected, and I don't mind a little of that. We've also never been to Muir Woods, despite living in the Bay for 4 years, and I have a soft spot for the Sonoma Coast so wouldn't mind revisiting Point Reyes. Anywhere else we should consider?

Thanks!

Furthermore, all the things that I think of as quintessentially Californian (with a couple of exceptions: hippies, for one) all have their genesis in SoCal culture.

Sky Saxon of the Seeds coined the term "flower children" and the Sunset Strip scene was happening before anything was going on in SF. The scene up there only took off once they started shutting down clubs on the Strip and people started moving up north. So LA should get credit/blame for hippies too.

if you do Tahoe, have breakfast at the Squeeze Inn in Truckee. a) Truckee's pretty freaking delightful and b) excellent omlettes etc - though don't go on the weekend or you'll have to wait forever to get in.

and the Donner Party memorial at Donner State Park (just outside Truckee) is a good photo op

eureka and arcata are great!

I mean they're like alright places or w/e but they're great jumping off points for seeing redwoods idk

but then again I dont know about the lolweather right now

I'm not too picky about weather

we used to camp up somewhere near the Redwood State Forest, goddamn it's beautiful up there

but that was, like, 8 years ago so I'm really no help at all :/

Have any of you ever heard Northern California referred to as "No Cal"? I just got a memo from a colleague in our Irvine office referring to some Bay Area projects that way.

prop 13 is bad but if it were repealed for standard homeowners the vast majority of them in california would go bankrupt, most likely, such is the rate of real estate inflation in parts of this state. I believe they are now working on looking to repeal it for certain business transactions.

bump?

the only good city in california is san diego

eh

what are you basing that on, sleepingbag?

# of people who can be trolled in california w/ one line

iatee otm.

Have any of you ever heard Northern California referred to as "No Cal"?

I may have heard it years ago on *gulp* sports talk radio.

I divide california up into left and right cal. it's such a so cal thing to do.

prop 13 is bad but if it were repealed for standard homeowners the vast majority of them in california would go bankrupt

I highly doubt that