I'm an alcoholic

So, based on recent observation, talks with the BF (who also acknowledges that he is an alcoholic), and a very intense house meeting where my drinking was brought up, I have come to accept the fact that I'm an alcoholic. I've known that I have had problems with the drink for a while, but only recently has it become an issue.

I guess what I'm wondering about is how I can change. I've cut back on drinking dramatically before and would like to do so again. I find a lot of the twelve-step type stuff a bit abysmal. Any thoughts?

Thanks for any advice. I really find it hard to talk about this, and appreciate honest responses.

xoxo
the table is the table

I don't drink at all(hate the taste nothing to do with anything else) , so I cant offer you any valuable advice, sorry. But good luck with it all! At least you're trying to do something about it!

As distasteful as you may find them (and believe me, I completely understand and sympathize with anyone repelled by the religious component of practically all of them), the structure of a 12 step program may be what you need. Regardless, you should speak to a professional counselor.

I wish you luck. I just had a good friend die due to alcohol. He had been an alcoholic for about 10-15 years and had a seizure in his sleep. He was trying to go cold turkey and his body freaked out. I also have alcoholism in my family and it has done more damage to our relationships than imaginable. All of this is a long way of saying you're making the right choice to address the issue and change. Good luck and you can definitely do it.

best of luck, homes, and w/r/t 12 step program's religious components, this thread elsewhere covers some of those concerns, it appears

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/newcomers-recovery/104342-any-non-religious-programs.html

Good luck, table.

^

you've taken the first very difficult step (so to speak) of self-recognition, that takes guts. as dan recommends don't be afraid to reach out for counseling.

good luck, TTITT.

Regardless, you should speak to a professional counselor.

v. good advice.

Thanks, everyone. Keep it coming.

the LifeRing thing linked to on that thread Omar— seems kind of perfect, especially since it was founded in Northern California, where I reside.

hey man--don't have time to get into anything (and in fact i should already be out the door and not on the internet at all at the moment) but just wanted to take an extra minute to say big kudos on being so open about this and taking any forward steps at all. i know i'm hitting dead-horse territory but w/o the gory details i've been around enough alcoholism and having the gusto to step up to this at all is pretty bigtime imo. good luck and all my best wishes.

My ex just told me about his first meeting at a gay-centric rehab type program. It sounded like a lot of drama, but I bet that's true of most group-based rehab activities.

hey table as someone who always has to watch their own intake i'll be thinking of you. best of luck pursuing help.

Table, can I ask if BF is seeking treatment too? Curious is all.

I think you are really brave...hope you find a program to get you on the right journey again. It takes courage, and it sounds like you've got it.

We need to talk about it. He wants to cut back. He's worried about himself to the same degree that I'm worried about myself. That said, there's no way either of us can go cold turkey. I mean, we both get the shakes and can't sleep if we don't drink at least a few beers a day.

And hey, thanks.

Sending my best. Omar's link looks really helpful.

you can do this

hey table, big ups on being so open about this. You are doing exactly what you should be at this stage, sounds like. I reached a similar impasse a couple years ago, and while everyone will find their own way of dealing with such things, one of the most important determining factors for me was sorting out whether my addiction was physical or purely emotional/psychological. You won't know this unless you stop for a while & watch for the telltale signs of physical withdrawal. Whether or not you are actually, physically addicted should have some bearing on which course of action you take. My two cents, anyway.

If you ever want to chat off-board about it, just drop me a line & would be happy to do so.

good luck

Take care, table. And if you hate the first meeting you go to, or don't connect with the people or the format, try another: another time, another neighborhood.

I mean, we both get the shakes and can't sleep if we don't drink at least a few beers a day.

I think this question has been answered. Tables, you should go in for detox before you do anything else.

oops sry didn't see that - yeah, so ^^ that, then

xxpost Eazy otm. My boss has been sober 20+ years, I talk to him a lot about AA, and that was a big thing: AA is so grassroots and varied that every one is different. One does not represent all, was what he said.

Do you drink much stronger than beer? Tbh the best thing I ever did re: drinking was just restrict myself to beer. Not too much, obv. Cold turkey's never worked for me or anyone I know, it always seemed to lead to an eventual blowout binge as alcohol becomes more and more a forbidden temptation type thing.

Oh and those seizures suck. Had one once, luckily was w a friend who had experience w epileptics and looked after me really well.

It's a hard thing. Once you've admitted it, all sorts of guilt things come into the rest of your life when you do drink. Don't hate yourself if you drink.

Detox should be handled professionally if you are physically addicted. (based on limited understanding) each ugly detox/withdrawal makes you more vulnerable to further problems the next time and the next time. there will be next times. Some benzos, and blood pressure monitoring are important in the first 3 to 7 days.

Cutting back can give you more time to continue drinking, but if you think you are really ready to have life without it at all, i dont know. Meetings are good. A counselor is good. Don't let anybody convince you that relapse=death. Sometimes relapse is better than death.

Fish oil, B-complex, don't overdo the caffeine. Meditation, physical activity. Breathe.

one of the tough things that i remember when i quit drinking for a while after having major problems is how to deal socially. Like a lot of social activity revolves around drinking. Changing habits and patterns that you're used to is hard.

Maybe another thing that would help is coming up with other things to do or things you want to do but haven't had the wherewithall to do because of drinking & partying? In a way giving yourself an incentive to change your behavior.

no good advice from me I'm afraid, but best of luck!

just curious -- any chance you're willing to share what prompted you to come to this conclusion? i understand if you don't want to document it here, but i'm a little curious as to how people come to this conclusion. it seems like a hard one to make and what many might consider a gray area, especially if they are behaving like others in their social circle.... either way, good luck dude.

don't have any experience w/ this personally or, thankfully, w/ in my family, so i'm just here to wish good luck and offer love

stay strong, it'll be worth it

echoing j0rdan's sentiments - <3 u t, you're a tough kid and i know you'll persevere

I have lots of clean and sober friends. They all went through NA/AA. None of them were religious before and none of them got religion after coming out the other side, but they all grumble/kvetch about the religiosity of NA/AA. Not to speak for them, but my sense is that the tradeoff of putting up with the "higher power" rhetoric of some AA/NA folk was worth staying clean (from alcohol and heroin, mostly). The good news is that they are still alive, and they're much, much happier. People in recovery do amazing stuff with the time/energy that used to go into getting fucked up. Teddy, I know you can do this, and I want to reassure you that you're still going to be you on the other side of this transformation.

12 step = running away long and fast and forever. fuck being cured by magic

good luck. this thread makes me feel i should look at my own habits, i am pretty sure by plenty of definitions i am an alcoholic, but then so are loads of people i know. and i hold down a job and never drink in the day etc.

Hi there, and good luck with this, TTITT

I've had lifelong problems with alcohol (and I do mean lifelong) but what follows is representative only of my experience, the biggest thing that I've learned WRT addiction is that one size does not fit all.

I have had nothing but bad experiences with AA. That's not even down the religious aspect, it's down to my particular personality - that I found it overly dependent on a certain kind of peer pressure and a group mentality. If you're a community minded person who has no trouble "joining" that may work for you. For me, it had the opposite effect - being in a room full of people saying they weren't going to drive only made me want to run the hell out of there and go drink some more. I was told this was some kind of adolescent rebellion - no, it's not. That maverick, "not the joining kind" thing is a deep part of my personality, and I don't want to have to fight against *it* as well as addiction, to help myself.

I've been to rehab twice, it did no good at all. I had a court order to stop drinking for a year while I was on probation - I quit for the year, no problem, then threw myself back into drinking, aggressively, when the probation was over.

I have not stopped, dead, but I finally, in my late 30s, came to a sensible relationship with drinking.

Part of that was going on SSRIs - that they did somehow flip a switch in my head, that that kind of *rush* I used to get when I started to get drunk (that "woooo! let's do this more! and more! and more! until we all fall down!") just didn't engage. Drinking made me tired and kind of sleepy, so if I wanted to drink at social situations, I had to have one and stop. (And I could do that, because the "whee! let's drink more!" urge never kicked in.)

But:
1) this was about the kind of alcoholic that I was, that I could say no to the first drink, I could even say no to the second drink, if I hadn't caught a buzz off it, but once that buzz had caught hold, I was gonna be there til I passed out, and nothing would stop me.

2) I would NOT recommend SSRIs as a method *solely* of coming off drink, as they are deeply addictive (or habit-forming or whatever they want to call it) - coming off SSRIs was harder than any alcohol detox I have ever done.

What did help is that while I was on SSRIs, I had to totally dismantle and reassemble certain aspects of my personality and large chunks of the *way* that I socialised.

It will hurt, but if you have friends that you are only ever around when you're drinking, you have to lose them. For other people - well, I live in England, which is a very pro-alcoholic society, I had to come up with valid excuses that could not be "aw, but come on!"-ed out of. "Sorry, I physically can't, I'm on medication" was a very good one. There were whole situations that I had to just remove from my life if I couldn't do without drinking - work socialising, I make an excuse every time and just don't go. After 1 or 2 times of you missing the work Xmas do, people stop asking. In a way, you kind of have to rebrand yourself as a non-drinker. I did this in my new job, when I started, I told my boss "I'm not really a pub kinda person" and always refused offers until people got the idea that I Was A Non-Drinker. (Once you have established this idea in their heads, and, more importantly, *yours*, you can start to go back to "oh, alright, I'l have a half glass of champagne at someone's birthday" but getting drunk, getting buzzed, is pretty much off the menu.)

Other situations that you associate really heavily with drinking - you may find your enjoyment of them affected. I learned to play gigs, as a musician, without drinking, but I started to realise that I didn't actually *enjoy* them, so I stopped. Sexuality became a huge no-go area for me, because I realised how hard it was for me to have sex without being drunk. I haven't figured a way around that one, yet. There are many social situations that I don't feel up to, without drinking - the idea of sitting in a pub for four hours to celebrate someone's birthday is actually kinda intolerable to me. Yeah, it's affected my relationships with friends when I say that I'll go to something, and then cometh the day, I just don't feel up to it - so I JUST DON'T GO. It sucks. It isn't fun. I've had to let go of a lot of the idea of me as "a fun person" if I can't *do* "fun" without being drunk. I still have social anxiety issues I have to deal with, but I'd rather deal with them than the alcoholism that was masking them. It seems more permanent. (And also holds out the hope that I will be able to "do" alcohol again in social situations that I don't find so difficult.)

As to the detox thing. That is probably something you are going to have to see a medical doctor about. I've done cold turkey detox in the criminal system - not fun. I can't tell if "a few beers during the day" means you go all day without drinking and then have to have a few beers at night to get you to bed, or if it means you crack open a stella (or your local equivalent) at breakfast and sozzle quietly through the whole day. The former is the kind of thing you can actually crack on your own through changing your habits (and will probably require reduction, not cold turkey - try doing it every other day, and on the days you don't, substitute some other really relaxing activity - take a bath, drinking chamomile tea while listening to classical music, have soppy sex and a backrub - whatever works for you - and try to find psychological ways of dealing with stress related sleep disorders.) If it's the latter, and you are drinking all day, every day - go to a doctor. That requires medical attention.

Sorry this is so overly long, and probably only really applicable to my personal situations, and not to yours. I just wanted to get across the idea that a person *can* do it - even if AA is not an option. It isn't *easy* but it is doable, and it is survivable.

Good luck to you both. You can do this.

Christ, that's even longer than I thought. Sorry.

I'm gonna run away now before I chicken out and ask a mod to remove it for fear of ILX and IRL repercussions for having been so honest. Sorry.

Shit, that'll teach me to post without proofreading for fear of not posting at all. Third paragraph should be:

being in a room full of people saying they weren't going to drive drink only made me want to run the hell out of there and go drink some more.

Best of luck with this, table. Realising that you have a drink problem is a big necessary step, well done.
My history: heavy drinker for 10 years, sober & teetotal for the past 8. I have to say that most of the time I still badly miss being able to have a drink, but...

"woooo! let's do this more! and more! and more! until we all fall down!"

^^^ realising that this wasn't fun or enjoyable any more really helped me stay off the booze during the first couple of years. Also, breaking contact with people who I used to hang out and get slaughtered with.

hey table, I don't have any advice to give but I'm really impressed by your openness and your ability to face the problem. Alcoholism runs in my family, but so does stubborn pride and an inability to talk about things or ask for help (esp if it's something with guilt involved, like drinking when you shouldn't), and I've seen it cause a lot of sadness over the years. So kudos to you, and I wish you the best of luck.

Superb post Kate, thanks. Um I think Dave Q said once (not to treat him as some Great Sage, but he's a smart guy) that if people who care abt you think you have a drinking problem, you have one. Haven't come across a better definition since. Alcoholism is v good friends w selfdeception.

<3s and good luck dude

Good luck, beat the demon, you *can* do it. I have seen alcohol destroy people and it sucks big time.

I am not an alcoholic, but my family members ABC and CBS both spent time as RAGING out of control alcoholics. Counseling and medications or whatever just perpetuate the isolation that an alcoholic experiences ("no one understands me", "I can't identify my problems", "I hate my job / neighbors so-called 'friends'"). ABC used to berate me too for being carefree. I said what kind of future should be spent with a miserable no-life person like YOU. He said that my "spiritual" attitude was idiotic and had no place in today's society. Cutting him out of my life for a few years helped. He had abandoned or trash-talked all his old friends too. The "success" model had gotten to him. Then he got fired from his job at a really super prestigious corporation (now disgraced ha ha - no I'm not telling you which one) and was forced into a spiritual crisis. I am in favor of this "tough love" approach. He ended up being bailed out by his "dumb" old friends.

Just as ABC was recovering, CBS developed a life-threatening alcohol problem, I mean going out several times a week and coming home staggering drunk and blacking out, ending up in the hospital. So then CBS and ABC were fighting, oblivious to everyone they were affecting. It didn't help that she dropped out of school and couldn't keep a job. CBS ended up in jail and everything. Same thing, caught up in work and money only fighting things and people that weren't worth fighting. I said I am sick of you complaining, just cut the bitches out of your life. So what if you are poor and have a criminal record, if you stop being a miserable drunk someone who believes in you will eventually take you under their wing.

Like I said, tough love works. So do socialization and group activities like vacations, healthy projects, going outside instead of sitting in front of the television. The alcoholic needs to get out of the isolation and counseling and pills and even some "programs" that berate or guilt trip the individual don't necessarily do that. Anti-individual attitudes are BAD, they end up creating lonely unhappy frustrated people, and a lot of alcohol programs aren't positive in nature, they are all about what the alcoholic is doing wrong and how the leader is always right.

Doesn't a person drink because they feel bad about themselves? Maybe I am wrong, but I lived with two alcoholics and they stopped drinking when they stopped trying to be someone else. Cut the negative influence from your life and develop yourself.

webmailing you, but hang in there.

Doesn't a person drink because they feel bad about themselves? Maybe I am wrong, but I lived with two alcoholics and they stopped drinking when they stopped trying to be someone else. Cut the negative influence from your life and develop yourself.

people drink and are alcoholics for all kinds of different reasons.

Agreed, but u s steel's description accurately describes me back then.

hey table, I don't have any advice to give but I'm really impressed by your openness and your ability to face the problem. Alcoholism runs in my family, but so does stubborn pride and an inability to talk about things or ask for help (esp if it's something with guilt involved, like drinking when you shouldn't), and I've seen it cause a lot of sadness over the years. So kudos to you, and I wish you the best of luck.

― the dialectic of specs (c sharp major),

^ can only echo this and repeat my honest admiration for your strength in attempting this in such an open way right off the bat.

and though kate and i have been butting heads lately, that was a fantastic post from her.

And tough love only works in very specific circumstances and with certain types of people--it can backfire, horribly, if used indiscriminately. (Or for things other than addictions--I'm not going to get into how I think the whole tough love philosophy has been a corrosive influence on the US since it started in the early eighties. That really belongs in one of the US Politics threads.)

Both parents are alcoholics and I know too well what it does to people, so I'm glad you've decided to stop it (relatively) early on.

What worked for you to help you quit drinking last time? Seems to me that while whatever you did was good enough to work for a short while, there are deeper problems that maybe you didn't address.

Not knowing all of your circumstances (not that anyone needs to in a public forum), it is difficult to give advice. Sometimes people are in an intractable situation that isn't entirely their fault and probably won't quit drinking until they are free of it, as in my story about my relative CBS.

Going back to Kate's post upthread (which was good, Kate, you shouldn't worry about it) - the peer pressure stuff is largely internal. My social circle (which intersects with Ted's) revolves a lot around drinking and smoking pot. But there are people in that circle that don't drink and/or don't smoke pot that aren't not seen as "fun people". Obviously, if you don't feel like a fun person and are not having fun in a situation, then the other people are gonna pick up on that. But, for the most part, esp. if booze and weed are involved, the other people are not really gonna be focused on whether or not you're indulging yourself.

As an aside

Jesus Christ boys, the fuckin acid reflux.

thats the fuckin truth but

sorry thread turned to shit

ianaa but im on passing filial terms or have been bytimes with a few doozies and sincere good luck to all dealing regardless of inclination to discuss bodies/poop itt

I am glad bodies shit out most of the mass they consume instead of growing and growing until they are stars. Stars for my mean dad, the king.

being sick is not a bad thing. it's ok to be diseased.

Other del, this seems like an irresponsible and insensitive thing to post on a thread that was only bumped because one of our own, some guy named sleeve, felt strongly enough about his sickness that he would go to this channel for some support in fighting it. It's sort of the whole point of this thread. No one using it for their intended purpose needs to know about gut flora research, read drunk peoples thought experiments, or hear excuses about how we can be one with everything, including sickness. Just, no. Knowing what I know about recovery-seeking among the powerless, they want literature pertinent to that mode of thought. Is it too much to ask that we resist the impulse to channel the shittiest imitation of kerouac we can muster, and instead simply support (or simply not not support) someone we may want to pretend is our friend?

Been having a rough go of it, and things are slated to get harder--hoping for recommendations on managing urges when in a minefield of triggers.

What are your triggers?

"Stars for my mean dad, the king" this is my favorite GYBE/Mogwai collaboration album!

Let’s stay focused ppl

I know this won’t seem like a big deal maybe but I am 48 hours smoke-free— down from 10-15 a day overnight

I know that at hour 73 it’s like angels singing and I feel like I can run 10 miles so I’m holding on through it

Weird how stress/anxiety alleviation brings back your capacity toward discipline

xps yo del griffith thanks for that supportive post, really appreciate it. sorry for late response.

9 days, things are good, 12-step is good and I'm lucky I clicked with the 1st group

I'm even more of a soda snob than I was before, was always a fan

had lime-coriander bitters in soda with simple while I DJd last night at the local bar, hell yeah.

Get it, dogg. I will never not like hearing success stories about people setting and respecting limits for themselves.

The butters and soda trick is revelatory it’s like “ok hanging out in bars while sober isn’t so bad”. A few places in LA used to assume I was DD and give them to me for free

what is the protocol re: n/a drinks at bars? on the rare occasion that I'm in one these days, and order a club soda, I expect not to be charged. Esp if I'm among a group of boozers. Am I out of line?

I always get charged for bitters and soda but it's $2, don't care.

plain water i would not pay for but anything else -- even water with lime -- i tip a dollar at least. someone has to wash that glass and it beats paying $8 for a beer.

otm

good luck / strength re smoking, flambo!

Thank you! I have a craving every minute or so, and then a “what could be wrong with just one” subroutine, followed by a “no, no, you are so happy right now without them”, and then a dopamine rush of self-righteousness

grab that rush, it’s how I quit smoking

sleeve, you may like this article. It's about a master somm who has been sober for 25 years. He does a lot of current work on the physiology and cultural differences of tasting.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cathyhuyghe/2017/08/09/alcoholism-and-addiction-in-the-wine-industry-a-candid-perspective-from-a-master-of-wine/#3e8f46b76ce7

derp, he's a master of wine not master somm.

haha like I would know the difference

thanks :)

This is a thread for ILXors ON THE WAGON (and for the Wagon Curious)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibx8JpIIq28

this is gonna start with a bunch of whining but it gets positive by the end!

my sad little journey started two and a half years ago, with a bar calling an ambulance on me for my violently excessive drinking, which brought me to the hospital and helped me delude myself that quitting my then-quality job was somehow a good idea, i believe it is outlined above. ended up going through 30-day treatment which eventually made me pretty cynical about the recovery industry in the united states, it was basically a month of barely-facilitated AA meetings dominated by racist electricians from iowa (but with once a week access to hot tubs!). it also stuck me with a massive bill of $xx,xxx (won't say precise amount). after treatment i supported myself via multiple minimum-wage jobs with terrible hours which only increased my misery, was waffling between months of sobriety and weeks of benders. tried many AA meetings but they alternately depressed me or alienated me. but due to some perseverance, my previous work background, and some major luck i scored an extremely quality position a year or so ago which massively helped me, healthwise. it's almost as if your means and life situation are contributing factors to your mental health?

even with this new job i did need some 1:1 therapy and tried to do that as best i could (then got stuck with another multi-thousand bill under the tutelage of an ex drunk who would actually interrupt me while i was trying to share my thoughts! apparently to be a LADC in my state doesn't really require much, i think he was using his role to maintain his own sobriety).

anyway, even with severe debt and after trying a lot of the typically suggested conventional recovery things i started taking naltrexone via the sinclair method. naltrexone is an inhibitor which suppresses your brain's reward system towards booze and slowly deprograms your love for alcohol. it has done wonders for me, i still drink a little too much, but i wake up early every morning, and am doing quite well in most parts of my life even through COVID and quarantine which honestly would have killed me before. my drinking dropped by 50% almost instantly, and it continues to slowly drop. my life has never been better career, work, or relationship-wise. also you can fucking die from going cold turkey and from my on and off the wagon approach (look up kindling) and i am sure i was on that path... in fact at one point i did have auditory and visual hallucinations and was very close to a seizure. i don't want to evangelize but this has helped me so much and if anyone out there is looking for a different way to recover in your own way please DM me!

also, fuck the USA, our healthcare system, and our doctrinaire approach to 'recovery' and beyond. even bill w was okay with psychedelics

glad you’re alive and doing better!

six months without a drink felt hard towards the end so i gave myself two nice strong belgian beers but I didn’t enjoy the experience at all. I think i may have finally programmed myself off of alcohol for good. pot, luck, somewhat fanatical exercise, love were helpful in my case.

pot, luck

lol

any time i've quit for an extended period of time beer totally resumes its original vile profile for me. it's like "oh i taught myself this was good"

<3 to you global tetrahedon, glad you're doing better

The recovery industry in the US is so incredibly uneven, it makes me crazy. I had the kind of rehab experience that everyone should have--including people who don't have a substance use problem! Top-notch staff with actual graduate degrees, strong medical support, plenty of fresh air and opportunities for exercise (this is important), excellent and nourishing food (this is also important!), emphasis on getting good sleep and enough rest overall (very important!). No 12-stepping; lots of informed, evidence-based psychoeducation and individual/family counseling. Seriously, everyone should get to go do this. Oh and it was covered by my insurance (which I was lucky enough to have).

I have no idea what the ratio of high-quality rehabs to crap rehabs may be, but my guess is dismal.

Pro tip: avoid rehabs in Florida. That place seems to be a total recovery shitshow.

Good luck, global.

I've a buddy who's a therapist at a Palm Beach County rehab. He's said you wouldn't believe the four or five celebrities who've passed through (and returned).

I know someone who blabbed about the celebrities in his AA group. Seemed shitty.

My friend mentioned no names.

i agree that everyone (including non addicts!) should do some kind of (quality) rehab

the one i was at seemed to be fueled by union types. i guess they have the good insurance and the construction industry is rife with substance problems. but this often made sessions feel like one was out at the job site

naltrexone (and its injectable, vivitrol) is great, i recommend it (and the sinclair method) all the time

good for you, global, and good luck

glad to hear things are going well, global

yes, loved reading your post

agree that everyone (including non addicts!) should do some kind of (quality) rehab

if only there were some kind of effective rehab program for addiction to wealth in excess of one's basic needs.

my favourite uncle died yesterday at 60 years old. of my mum's 3 brothers, all younger than her, he lived the longest. the oldest died at 50 of a heart attack 12 years ago. the youngest died at 56 of a stroke 2 years ago, he had been suffering from throat cancer and an aggressive prostate cancer, both of which were terminal and inoperable. all 3 of them were drinkers. the youngest was a classic alcoholic archetype and chain-smoker. the other two were respectable, successful men, never drank to the stage of foolishness, didn't drink at home, and didn't drink spirits, just pints, but were in the pub every day of their lives that it was at all possible. you might also call them alcoholics. we have no familial predisposition towards heart disease.

i quit drinking in september. i sort of hate sobriety. i think about drink a lot. when i think about my uncle who passed away yesterday and the way he drank - for fun, socially, having a good laugh, with a pleasant meal, really enjoying life, knowing everyone who drank in the local pub and being part of a community, i find it hard to say it would be better if he had lived a sober life and not died yesterday. it would've been an utterly different life, devoid of many of its chief pleasures. but i know my own propensity for drinking like my other uncle, the alcoholic, who would drink mainly in the pub, but until absolutely obliterated, and would drink at home alone when the pub closed, and was asking my grandmother for money as a middle-aged man, because he'd spent all his perfectly respectable wage packet from working as a joiner on booze.

i wish i hadn't grown up somewhere where the pub was the agora. if id been viennese instead of glasgwegian would this even by an issue?

Tell me about it, jim.

One of my uncle's died last year of prostate cancer. He was one of the few ones who'd stopped drinking and wasn't an alcoholic. The NHS couldn't help him because his kidneys were gone and he had left his condition untreated until it got terminal. I had to explain to mum that although he'd been teetotal for years, he was still chain-smoking rollups and also often buying speed off old dodgy smackhead friends of mine, it's amazing he lived as long as he did taking that shit.

Good exploration of the cultural continuum of alcohol dependency jim

The mother's side have/had it bad (two from six nonfunctional, one functional, one married a fuckin *worldie*) but culturally it's very notable how it has seriously dwindled into the next generation. Quick mental survey of the forty cousins i know of on that side we have only one who would compare and he got it from his father rather than my aunt

Materfamilias herself was, and i forget the exact multiplier, four or five times over the old driving limit the night she burned the house down, and had been out of her mind riddled for at least the decade before that but likelier closer to twice that tbh (my memories of extreme parental drunkenness and the ensuing mess rank among my earliest)

The aul fellas side are very respectable, would drink more like the "better" version you describe- especially the men, fishermen/businessmen who've progressed to a bottle of chardonnay a night (every night) rather than brawling twice a week after vodka binges. The aulfella himself the worst of them tbh.

Of us four boys one cannot/shouldnt drink and took twenty years to know it, one took almost as long to learn how he could and couldnt, one doesnt socialise at all and one never drank, very pointedly so.

Im the one who has learned how i can drink, but thats in the irish context tbf- its not like im the one holding back at a fap or anything.

So yeah, its complicated

And sympathies on yr uncle and luck with the drinking yrself

thanks, deems

Wow.

I'm as steady as she goes (every night), fairly high functioning as things go, and unlikely to make changes. I wish jim and others in this thread the best with their decisions and say that they are probably the correct ones.

Jim fwiw just about everyone I've ever known says that the not drinking thing gets easier and less suckish over time, which has been my experience as well. I no longer think about drinking very much, and when I do it is more a wistful thing, nothing like an actual craving. I sometimes have FOMO but then I remember that because I am only one person living my one life I am going to miss out on most things anyway, so why get too worked up about it.

It's pretty nuts how incredibly drinky western culture is. To be outside of that takes getting used to, for sure.