Boredom, apathy and life fullfillment

There's probably already been countless threads here, of all places, but can't hurt to have a new one.
The same way ILM discussed music listening habits, I'm curious to hear how people here stave off boredom and the unfulfilling repetition of office life.
As far as I'm concerned, I've noticed that my post-work activities have narrowed down to either having meaningless drinks or watching bad TV at home. I know that the key is to do stuff, but somehow it all seems so complicated and tiring... Keen to find inspiration in other people's experience.

god this thread is like a bullseye for me, but i am moving away from this so much that it is exciting.

firstly if you don't already exercise then that is the #1 thing i'd recommend. running, gym, whatever, find a form of exercise you can do daily or every second day. i believe in this bit so much that i'd almost say this alone will make other positive thoughts happen and lead to you discovering other hobbies.

secondly, what has worked for me is just generally considering what things i liked doing as a child or teen, and trying to take up hobbies accordingly. personally it was acting, i did loads of it in school then just stopped, for whatever reason. college/life etc getting in the way.

seize on something like this or use it to find a really good hobby.

finally i'd say that you can't force yourself to do productive or cultural things in the evening, and if you find yourself tired/unmotivated, it's probably due to your job. so try and have a longer term escape route from that.

you may find hobbies lead you to one, i really believe now that doing something for its own sake can lead to personal growth in ways i never understood before i tried this.

like just go out and start living and you'll be amazed at what you suddenly feel or begin to realise, imo.

Big cosign with R. We've pretty objectively had a shitty year in 2012, with a constant stream of low-level crapness that's undone the last two years which were fantastic. But, I've been exercising loads, playing football 2-3 times a week and cycling too (though not quite as much of that as I'd hoped because of the weather) which means I'm actually still feeling pretty good in myself, and positive about what comes next. So yeah, exercise, and just remember the things you used to like doing (like riding a bike or playing football!) and start doing them again.

One thing that I've observed is that although solitary hobbies can be nice, in terms of taking up the time and getting rid of a bit of the boredom and stuffing a tiny stopper in the emptiness, they're not actually that effective at the whole "life fulfilment" thing if they are not, in and of themselves, meaningful.

The thing that seems to elevate a hobby beyond a passtime is that moment that it connects with your values - and through that, with other people. It seems to be just one of those weird things in the human psyche, whereby taking up a "cause" is somehow inherently more satisfying than doing something without an associated meaning. (Or perhaps I am generalising from mine own experience and only attracting people who are somewhat like me.)

And it's best of all when you can align a hobby with a meaningful cause - and it doesn't have to be something world-changing, it can be something small, e.g. turning an interest in gardening into getting involved with a local sustainable living project or (in my case) turning an interest in obscure linguistics into a project to revitalise a politically suppressed minority language. And these things become *meaningful* in a way that just doing a fun pass-time hobby like writing novels or recording indie-pop doesn't provide. And the idea that it is something meaningful and bigger-than-you often overcomes that resistance of being too tired or complicated.

It doesn't really matter what the cause is... it's just more the idea of combining "fun activity you enjoy" with "something which promotes the ideals or qualities you value" which makes that leap from "killing time" to "making life meaningful outside of the office."

Just spending time with people doing interesting or enjoyable things, really. That's about the best you can hope for from life, I think.

He says, once again on his own apart from two huge cats, because his wife is working 100 miles away in a shoe shop for her dad. I said it'd been a shit year.

The thing that seems to elevate a hobby beyond a passtime is that moment that it connects with your values - and through that, with other people. It seems to be just one of those weird things in the human psyche, whereby taking up a "cause" is somehow inherently more satisfying than doing something without an associated meaning. (Or perhaps I am generalising from mine own experience and only attracting people who are somewhat like me.)

i would disagree, tho obv purely on a subjective level. it's the utter deep dive into yourself that gets me into hobbies, not that meeting people isn't also a big thing. i feel like my hobbies just make me think more, that they give me the big sweeps of emotion which i need and lack in my day job. < / acting twat>

OK, so it's maybe not a universal. But it's something that makes things "meaningful" to me and to lots of people that are like me (idealists, perhaps.)

I think, for me the song writing thing was #out saying things worth saying or hearing . Once there is the situation where no-one else hears stuffm that was where the hobby became pointless to me.

about. Not the hashtag dunno where that came from

Yeah, I think that the key to overcoming boredom and apathy is just to do stuff - different kinds of stuff, with lots of different people, erring on the side of outdoor activities. But this is more refreshing than fulfilling - life fulfillment seems like a lofty goal, requiring hard-earned wisdom/self-knowledge.

yeah, getting engrossed in a hobby is the key isn't it - but then I always wonder if it's valuable in itself or simply a good way to kill time and not think about it (but then again surfing the interent always does a pretty good job at that). I never thought about the "cause" angle, although right now I can't seem to think of any I could join...
I used to systematcially sign up for evening classes, language mostly, but then more and more they felt like chores and I would long to go to the pub instead of trekking down to some shitty language school on a cold and dark november night.

i think the hobby can lead to a bigger sense of purpose or a change... what ostensibly seems an evening activity can make you have a new career or ambition for something else, this is sort of where i'm at now.

See, for me, the "cause" aspect is what gives me the impetus to drag myself down to a shitty school on a cold and dark night I'd rather just go home. And once I'm there, I get totally engaged, and it becomes fun. But, for me, it's that edge that overcomes my resistance to going out and interacting with people, even when I know that it would be a good thing to be doing in theory.

When online poker went away, my hobby became recreational eating. :-(((

I've never been more bored or miserable. I spend half my time thinking about throwing everything aside and starting over somewhere more civilized, and the other half thinking "you've got two semi-helpless people counting on you for so much, might as well stick it out until you die of some indolence-related disease."

Current coping mechanisms: ILX, baseball, old movies, comics.

It's a surprisingly deep question to ask yourself: "what do I enjoy doing?". Our lives are generally so regimented, that if you've gone through the school, university and job route - you've usually had to specialise and lost touch long ago with what you actually enjoy doing.

I'm not really a 'joiner', so not attracted to causes - but also if I needed a cause to motivate myself, I'd begin to wonder how much I was really enjoying the activity in question.

For the chronically ambivalent there's also the very real "grass is greener" problem. Pinning down what enjoy doing is often the first step to realizing that you'd rather be doing something else.

I used to systematcially sign up for evening classes, language mostly, but then more and more they felt like chores and I would long to go to the pub

Skip the odd class and go to the pub but keep it going. That way it won't feel like a chore, hopefully!

It is not possible to fix the things about one's life that needs fixing without first understanding that it takes plenty of time and many small steps and mid-course adjustments. It's always tempting to think that what's wanted is some huge, decisive change, such as quitting one's job, changing one's partner, or moving to a new town and starting fresh.

The first place to start is with yourself, because that is the one area where you have some reasonable amount of control. And the first thing to examine is how much control you really have over yourself. The more you get acquainted with your own mind's quirks, flaws and failings, the easier it is to see clearly where you stand and to set reasonable expectations. Distorted expectations are a potent cause of unhappiness.

I'm not saying we ought to be happy that we are all badly flawed, so much as that, once you grasp this nettle, it becomes much easier to relax and accept much of the muddle and abject stupidity we all display, with less frustration and more foregiveness of ourselves and others. That lifts a certain amount of oppression from one's mind and frees you to find happiness in smaller things, while it gives you more patience to steer around the thousands of obstacles between you and your larger goals, over a period of many years.

At least, this it how it seems to me.

... or, hang gliding!

http://www.ratestogo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/hang-gliding.jpg

But seriously, that's good advice Aimless.

i agree with lots of the things already said, esp. exercise. it's so nice to run every 2-3 days. it eats up time in a way that feels productive, rather than re-checking the same 10 websites for new content, and it makes me feel like i'm (figuratively) on the road to something better and tangible.

but man, i sympathize with this topic so much and i really struggle with it. here are my boring thoughts on two broader issues that i think drive everything else:

1) how to pursue hobbies/activities with the knowledge that i probably won't truly excel at it. this is probably a hangup from elementary school days (or the consequences of growing up in a small town where you actually COULD be the best at something). i've had a bad habit of ditching things that i really loved because i didn't want to be just good at them, i wanted to be world famous! now i recognize that quitting things because you can't be the best probably points to narcissistic thinking, conscious or not.

2) finding happiness/meaning/fulfillment in a world without a god, or at least without a god that actually does anything or pays attention.

I hear that, ZS. Had "smartest kid in town" syndrome ... then went out into the wider world and realized it had a lot to do with going to a crappy school on the outskirts of civilization.

Been recently struggling with the, if I'm not great, why bother being creative?! It's too late to become a master anyway! So lately I've been toying with the idea of just doing it to enjoy myself, because it's really a great way to spend time in and of itself. Dipped my toe into Buddhism and it had some interesting insights about these questions, def want to look more into it.

Creativity is not about approval, but engagement.

This is a good thread idea, and I thank everyone who's posted on here. I often feel like I'm in a rut – but if I look back on my life I've learned one new, big skill or hobby every year or so. And now they're just a part of my life and who I am and what I do to the point I don't even notice them. I guess this is what drives me to learn more new things because I like novelty beyond what's been incorporated into my routine.

I've been kind of itchy to get a bicycle again and this thread might be just the push I need.

There is an old legend that king Midas for a long time hunted the wise Silenus, the companion of Dionysus, in the forests, without catching him. When Silenus finally fell into the king’s hands, the king asked what was the best thing of all for men, the very finest. The daemon remained silent, motionless and inflexible, until, compelled by the king, he finally broke out into shrill laughter and said these words, “Suffering creature, born for a day, child of accident and toil, why are you forcing me to say what would give you the greatest pleasure not to hear? The very best thing for you is totally unreachable: not to have been born, not to exist, to be nothing. The second best thing for you, however, is this—to die soon.”

― dayo, Tuesday, 14 December 2010 04:46 (11 hours ago)

uh, sorry, that wasn't helpful. collect stamps!

Silenus was a lying piece of shit is the way I heard it.

Variety is key if you're stuck in a boring repetitive office job...I really appreciate the message of the Dice Man that people crave variety and an element of disorder to break up the routine in their lives, but society very strongly tries to fix you in a stable role (although western democracy is of course more flexible than many other societies).

how to pursue hobbies/activities with the knowledge that i probably won't truly excel at it. this is probably a hangup from elementary school days (or the consequences of growing up in a small town where you actually COULD be the best at something). i've had a bad habit of ditching things that i really loved because i didn't want to be just good at them, i wanted to be world famous!

I was the best guitarist and keyboardist in my high school - or at least that's what my mother wanted to think. In actuality, there were two or three classmates who played better than me. When I auditioned to major at music at my local state university, I didn't pass the audition. So I studied I.T. and sociology instead.

Still played in rock bands and did adventurous things to ward off ennui, but now my voice is gone so i can't sing my own tunes, can't play well either. I work out in gyms and pools, so i'm in decent shape but that isn't particularly fun. Luv hang gliding yet rarely do it. Likewise rafting and riverboarding. I promise myself every summer this will be the year I skydive - there's a stunning beachfront drop zone nearby - but my back problems proclude that most of the time.

Meanwhile, i'm bored....

I feel like I've really slipped in 2012. Last year I seemed to be getting articles published, attending gigs, networking more, and generally keeping on my toes and feeling productive and achieving lots, but this year? Well I guess I've moved house and that's taken a while to acclimatise to. Work is mildly busier. I'm doing more with my band (although not much more than last year...). It feels like I'm running low on steam now though. I've never been one to go home and watch the box - and I do this even less so now than I did in 2011. The evenings seem to just drift by somehow though. IT's very puzzling and I don't know if its finally down to age getting the better of me, or an unconscious lack of focus.

Most of the things I like doing - writing stuff, making mixes, recording music etc - largely involves being at the computer alone, which is fine unless you've been sitting at a computer all day at work anyway. I end up resenting being at the computer during these times, although often I'd only be doing some other indoor activity. It's not that I don't go outside - I cycle a fair bit, enjoy walks etc. I also have a good social life and see a lot of people. It's just the things I find genuinely fulfilling also involve a lot of computer time which I am really starting to hate.

Just had this conversation with a co-worker

Me: What do you like doing?
Him: I dunno, lots of things.
Me: Like what?
Him: I dunno - going out, seeing friends
Me: So if you were given enough money to live off for the rest of your life, what would you do?
Him: Travel. Definitely. I'd want to see as many places in the world as I could possibly cram in.
Me: And once you've done that?
Him: I'd decide which was the nicest and go and live there.
Me: And what would you do once you were there?
Him: I dunno.
Me: Life's pretty futile, isn't it?

lol - that capture my state of mind quite well (aimless escapist fantasies and all)

i'll never understand how people can think of doing nothing or not knowing what you're gonna do as futility rather than freedom

life is so...unfuckingfutile.

so this is me. depressingly so. recently my attempts at getting out the rut has included: making sure i do *something* most days between 2 and 5 (i.e. chores, housework, gardening etc.) and an hour run between 5 and 6. i'm hoping that once shit is done around here, i keep the schedule of doing stuff and being active can jump over into learning to do something, like messing about in my dad's workshop to do some sort of beginner carpentry or something. idk. i need to get out of bed.

Don't underestimate the extent to which a shitty job can make everything else suck. You spend the majority of your waking hours preparing for work, traveling to and from work, or being at work. It's exhausting and if you aren't at least going to a place that gives you some modicum of pleasure, be it the work you do or the environment in which you work, it's brutal. I spent the last five years in a job that ground me down, mind and body. Just yesterday I finalized an offer with another employer and I get to give my notice tomorrow and holy shit, the difference in my brain between Thursday before I had the offer and yesterday when we finalized the negotiations is night and day. "Find a new job!" is completely facile advice for a million reasons, but if it's something you can focus on, it think it could help a lot.

But in the five years when I felt my life essence slipping away from me every time I dragged my weary bones down the hall to my desk, I managed to find a few things to help get me through. I used WCC's approach and took a second job teaching at a community college, which turned out to be incredibly fulfilling and fun. I also did volunteer work here and there for organizations/causes I feel passionate about, which gave me purpose and helped me meet people.

I also took the creative hobby approach, because making things with my hands is very soothing to me and stimulates my brain. My most recent folly is a metalsmithing class, which is basically magic. I mean, when you start heating metal with a blowtorch and then sticking it to other metal with other pieces of metal and then in the end you've made a ring you can wear, it's alchemy as far as I can tell. I also am really digging the elemental nature of manipulating heat and fire and metal. The things I'm making aren't going to win any awards but the fact that I made them at all amazes me every time.

I guess finally, it took me accepting that I'm not really going to change/save the world or be super famous or awesome and that what I've got now is pretty much life, and that's okay. Being happy and content can be a goal and something I'm satisfied with.

Maybe in order to live a less hopeless existence, you should always have an answer to the question: "If you had more money than you could spend in a lifetime, what would you do?". I'm sure that's a pretty depressing question to be asked, especially as many would argue that the idea of money as life's only tether is illusory to say the least. But I think it is important to have this in mind.

In my mind, I think I'd dedicate my life to making and seeking out music. I'd work on putting together a music studio, teach myself how it works and how to record and compose better and then open it to the public - have free workshops for kids and adults etc. I'd travel the world and write a blog or book about the different music scenes in different countries (away from traditional "world music" terms - I'd be more interested in, say, the clubbing scene in Kenya if there is such a thing).

Money's the tough subject. I know people who've basically turned travelling or a hobby into their career or livelihood; and really it hasn't taken that much money - just a little bit of dough to get them off the ground. After this they find themselves teaching abroad or merely just travelling from one place to another, working where they can and surviving day-to-day. But like the Pulp song "cos when you're laid in bed at night / Watching roaches climb the wall / If you called your dad he could stop it all" - I've been told by wide-eyed free-spirits that I should "do whatever I want to do, if you want to travel do it; if you want to start a business, do it" - but it's easy to say this when there's a safety net made of capital there in case everything goes up the spout. Most of us end up working a day to earn that daily penny, and not all options are laid out to us.

I regret not having been able to do an internship or work experience in a place more suited to my interests in earlier years, but it wasn't viable financially. Instead a few years ago I decided to start learning the ropes by teaching myself. I knew I enjoyed writing, but hadn't done anything in a while so I contacted a few people who put me in touch with editors and I started writing about music, and what do you know I got some good feedback (and some equally bad feedback, but what do you expect?). I wanted to play my favourite music out loud, so I hired out a small venue and put on a club night, which led to a bigger venue and then gig nights and six years later I'm doing them regularly and pulling a good crowd and being invited onto festival committees etc.

It is disheartening though, to think that all this was borne through pure depression and frustration and despite a modicum of recognition and self-satisfaction, I'm no further ahead in life by most people's standards (fiscally and vocationally than I was 5 years ago.

Don't underestimate the extent to which a shitty job can make everything else suck. You spend the majority of your waking hours preparing for work, traveling to and from work, or being at work. It's exhausting and if you aren't at least going to a place that gives you some modicum of pleasure, be it the work you do or the environment in which you work, it's brutal.

otm

and in that environment even if you know what you want to do to get out of the rut, you don't have the time or energy for it.

i totally disagree with this though:

Maybe in order to live a less hopeless existence, you should always have an answer to the question: "If you had more money than you could spend in a lifetime, what would you do?".

i think embracing uncertainty and trying to live in the moment is more key to not feeling hopeless, not some pipe dream fantasy that's irrelevant to your actual life, the one that's actually in your power to change

My main problem is perhaps the opposite to most in that I find I have not enough hours in the day to cram in everything I'd like to do. Yesterday was a total indulgence for me as I spent the second part of the afternoon watching episodes of Breaking Bad - and that wasn't before going to see my Dad and sister, tidying up the house, doing my washing and thinking about this unfinished review I'm working on. I still felt guilty about having spent so much time essentially watching TV though.

i think embracing uncertainty and trying to live in the moment is more key to not feeling hopeless, not some pipe dream fantasy that's irrelevant to your actual life, the one that's actually in your power to change

But "embracing uncertainty and trying to live in the moment" isn't always an option for a lot of people. Many find that their lives have developed such an unbroken pattern that they rarely encounter uncertainty. I do see what you're saying here Lex, but the idea of "living in the moment" almost comes off as empty Facebook-post rhetoric unless you have the privilege of being able to live a varied and exciting lifestyle.

you should always have an answer to the question: "If you had more money than you could spend in a lifetime, what would you do?"

Good advice - but one I'm depressingly completely unable to answer

How much of happiness is down to:

a: fulfilment of our own expectations
b: fulfilment of others' expectations

I think for many they'd be kidding themselves if B wasn't a major factor in their pursuit of happiness.

If I had more money than I could spend I'd do exactly what i do now, except i wouldn't go to work. ie nothing. I'd be v happy with that.

My answer to that question is always going to be "Pay off my student loans faster."

i would buy a huge fish tank!

Good idea of you also paid someone to clean it!

*if

xpost to pandemic. What is nothing though? Just sitting and staring? There's a pet theory that says that the human psyche suffers from a kind of perpetual ambient torment - a kind of mental tinnitus - that can only be drowned out through sleep or stimulation. A lack of stimulation, i.e. boredom, is therefore detrimental to the human soul.

I know my answer tends towards the narcissistic option. If not I'd be a lot happier in my life since going to work would not feel like so much potentially wasted time. I would go home each day looking forward to doing everything I was put on this earth to do - work and play. Sadly I've never felt like this.

this thread is hitting many of my buttons at the moment.

following the recent death of my wife, i am actually in a position whereby i never need work again.

it wouldn't be a life of luxury, but we would be able to cope quite easily.

i have taken a few months off in order to deal with the summer holidays with the intention of heading back into the office when the kids go back to school.
as it is, i'm still undecided as to what to do.

problem 1 : my job bores the life out of me.
problem 2 : the daily logistics re kids/school etc, mean that work + single parenting = chaos i just cant face.

however, money would be tighter than ever before, and i do like the social aspect of work (sort of), and not working and just doing the kid thing would drive me f*cking nuts and suspect i'd end up very very bored ..

yet i feel that this could all be viewed as an exciting opportunity, just that i am not in the right place yet to figure out what it is i would actually like to do with this opportunity.

What about part-time work in another field? If the income is mostly supplementary, you might have quite a wide range of choices?

Is working in a different job, if not right now then a bit down the line, feasible? You say finances would be tight but you would be easily able to cope, so I think taking advantage of that and giving yourself some more time would make sense. You have to take care of your social needs somehow to keep yourself from going crazy in the meantime, though.

xp - yeah, what Laurel said!

and thats it .. what else would i want to actually do.

due to constant kid kaos for last 6 weeks i haven't really had the space in my head to give it much thought, but its definitely an option.

also, i do fear stepping out of the 'proper' job market at the age of 44 as it would be very difficult to get back in should there be a need later on.

and then there is the other aspect of this thread : would i feel fulfilled if i became a 100% dad and gave up work altogether.

some days i think that could be good for us all if i just did the proper parenting thing, and then there are others when i dream of office boredom.

its quite a headf*ck of a situation to find yourself in.

i remember talking in the office a while back, and everyone saying how if they could pack it in if there had no money worries, and yet, when you find yourself in that position, the reality is not that straightforward.

some Zizek 101 here, but a good point well made:

happiness is a conformist category. And moreover, none of us really want it. Which is a good thing, since the pursuit of happiness is an Enlightenment value that gets at only one aspect of what it means to live a good life.

"Let’s be serious: when you are in a creative endeavor, in that wonderful fever--'My God, I’m onto something!' and so on--happiness doesn't enter it," he says. "You are ready to suffer. Sometimes scientists, I read in a history of quantum physics... were even ready to take into account the possibility that they (would) die because of radiation. Happiness is, for me, an unethical category." It's also boring.

You can be happy without being moral. You can be happy without being interesting or engaged in the world around you. You can be happy without having a single creative idea or interest or passion. You can get everything you desire, and still not be happy. So why even focus on finding bliss?

i remember talking in the office a while back, and everyone saying how if they could pack it in if there had no money worries, and yet, when you find yourself in that position, the reality is not that straightforward.

I have had this conversation as well, particularly as it pertains to coworkers of mine who are old enough to have retired 20 years ago but stick around. I always insisted that I would retire tomorrow if I could, but whenever people ask what I would do, it usually involves working, just somewhere different.

Leaving the job market at 44... yeah, that's daunting. There's so many variables - your line of work, what kind of pension benefits you have coming to you (so if you couldn't get back into the workforce, it would be okay), the job market. If you did, you would probably have to find a way to stay current in your field, but if you do that, why not work? Bah. So much to consider.

exactly my point(s) carl.

so much to consider, and all that while dealing with the fall out from the emotional intensity and demands of day 2 day stuff for the kids ..

still could be worse ..

gah this thread hits home hard

I work in a pretty pleasant office, but my job has now reached crashing levels of boredom. Soon to change, though I'm not party to when that will actually happen.

but I get home and I'm just a lump. I'm working up the will to start walking again after work - I live near a lovely neighborhood full of trees and big houses that I enjoy walking through...the weather has been so interminably hot these past few months that I used that as an excuse not to go. But I need to and now that the weather's cooling it might be the right time.

We are also heading towards some very dark times financially in a matter of weeks so any dreams I had of taking art classes or dancing classes are going back out the window again. So it's either drawing at home off my own bat or writin. Cooking is a thing that fulfills me, so that keeps me from just petering out creatively all together.

A little voice keeps telling me I should be writing more for myself, and I want to...but I'm so crushed by the vanity of the exercise. Like, who on earth would want to read what I dreamed up in my silly head, that hasn't been contractually asked of me. And the question of being good enough is so soulsucking. I need to not care about that but how do you even start?

sigh. idk.

A lot of people like this - http://750words.com/

Not that it is by any means a cure-all, but my strategy for when boredom and apathy become overwhelming is simply to teach myself something new. Maybe it's a career-relevant skill, maybe it isn't. Maybe it's cooking something I've never cooked before. For me apathy is tied to the mundane, and the best way to break that sense is to remind yourself that the world is filled with new experiences if you are willing to try them. Get in your car or on the train and travel to a place you've never been, or get on the bus and go to a different neighborhood. Bring a camera, bring a notebook. Maybe it seems obvious but it usually helps me.

http://deuceofclubs.com/books/166worthless.htm

There's so much shit to do. But really, why bother with any of it? You're going to die eventually. Then you're really going to wonder whey you bothered with all that shit. (216)

What advice would you give someone who cannot find the motivation to do anything - even things they know they enjoy - because they're too far gone down the line of "What's the point" or "I'm irrationally averse to doing it"?

is it really harsh and unhelpful to think that nobody else can answer those questions for you, or even really suggest a route thru? whatever enlightenment (nb not Enlightenment) we achieve is only coming thru ourselves i think

i never feel closer to the answers than when i realise i'm asking the wrong questions

Someone else can open a door for you (often without even being aware they're doing it) but only a person themselves can choose to step through it.

yeah i mean i think u can take cues, ideas, mantras from other people but the whoness of you? the point - tho i don't like that word either - is internal only if it is a thing

internal only, if it is a thing at all

is what i meant

have/had to lose all notions of "failing" before i cd get past it i think. likewise everything else that's unsatisfactory

i can reconcile this with still having swathes of sadness

caveat that i still believe there's a bunch of Maslow-y stuff that needs to happen first

I think counselling, therapy, self-help books, religion even, can be hugely helpful - more than just cues or mantras - depending on the person of course, and yes of course they have to want that change. maybe even the 'whoness' of you, who seems somewhat resistant to that idea (if i am reading you right) is less permanent than you think. but just to speak from my own experience, cbt didn't completely change who i am but it did stop me from lying in bed all day every day wanting to die.

i don't really believe in a permanent "me" but it's necessary to think/speak like that sometimes? yeah there are a bunch of ideas - therapies included - that can make us less ill. none of them can imbue purpose afaik

i'd probably include those things that make us "well" in the "Maslow-y stuff" category - one needs a certain level of wellness or self-cohesion or whatever the hell it is before one can proceed to notions of fulfilment? but also probably a lot of therapeutic interventions are doomed to fail because the underlying problems are the existential ones they're not equipped to address. getting some kind of brain chemistry balance is probably necessary but a long long way from an answer

you could train a chimp to get up and go to a job every day but you couldn't train it to want those things

well i haven't completely escaped the existential problems, far from it. but one thing i got from counselling is that purpose, motivation, whatever, is far more *external* than i realised. which fits in with wcc's post upthread about doing something that connects with yr values and with other people.

What advice would you give someone who cannot find the motivation to do anything - even things they know they enjoy - because they're too far gone down the line of "What's the point" or "I'm irrationally averse to doing it"?

Not being glib, but speaking from experience with that feeling - therapy and possibly anti-depressants.

ironically, that stuff works because it helps you feel more apathetic to killing yourself

Anti-depressants make me nauseous or have other unwanted side effects, and have no effect on my mood even after using them for months. Therapy only made things worse.

You should definitely not do either of those things then.

bored of everything right now

still keeping healthy though

so stoked to graduate from depression thread to this one

any bottle of port in a storm

I feel more despair than boredom really, listening to people talking of the benefits of overseas tourism on the radio is making me feel sad. Probably sounds like self-pity, but my holidaying days are on hold for now. Some globetrotting artist once said a bored person will be bored anywhere, smug fucker!

feel you dude, i'd settle for a day in Brid at the moment but train tickets are not cheap

I actually applied to the family trust fund this year for something like that, but no answer yet. But if they deliver then I'm luckier than a lot of people.

fingers crossed bud

yes, fingers crossed

I recently booked tickets for a family event and and all the various legs of transport and accommodation were so expensive and so much hassle to organise (plus coordinating with other people, begging for and then having to rearrange days off work, etc) and then I thought "apparently some people book flights and hotels every year in places they don't even know anything about, for fun??"

I am lucky tho in that I guess the hassle is a bigger deterrent than the cost but the cost is p shocking too

i never go anywhere but i don't really care

Some globetrotting artist once said a bored person will be bored anywhere, smug fucker!

― calzino, Wednesday, July 27, 2016 9:29 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya this isnt true for me

i guess maybe for some people it could be

but im definitely happier in certain cities

i think the reason you get bored is the difference

if you just feel bored because you dont do anything for whatever reason then i can see that artist being right

not my case though

boredom/apathy/lacko'fulfillment stuff always seems to strike me worst in the summer. It's like a reverse SAD.

boring stuff is cool..
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703395904576025482554838642

For seven hours on that Saturday, 20 speakers held forth on a range of seemingly dreary diversions, from "The Intangible Beauty of Car Park Roofs" and "Personal Reflections on the English Breakfast," to "The Draw in Test Match Cricket" and "My Relationship With Bus Routes."

boring stuff is cool..
my wife disagrees

i don't really do boredom. apathy and lack of fulfilment however.

yeah, same. but I do apathy and lack of fulfillment exceptionally well

i suspect ILX has got a pretty 1337 cadre of people with these skills

we could create a poll, but i kinda don't care

what is the difference between boredom and apathy? is apathy just general boredom at nothing in particular? while boredome is directed at a particular thing/'interest'/hobby?

I can be apathetic - generally disinterested in doing things - without being bored, i.e. i can sit around the living room gazing out the window at people walking/cycling by while not necessarily feeling that my lack of activity is tedious.

Yeah i love my apathy time tbh