So. You're discussing online pornography somewhere - perhaps irl, but more likely online. You mention a concern about coercion - effect of pornography on the brain - etc. Someone disagrees with you; they wave away your concern, and roll out an eloquent, slightly hackneyed panegyric to Freedom of Expression. Censorship would be worse, they say, although you hadn't suggested censorship.
Scenario two. You're discussing the middle east, and perhaps sharia law. Someone comes along with a praise of 'life's wholesome, natural pleasures', 'wine, women'; they become misty-eyed as they say how sad it is that some people, blinded by fanaticism, would seek to restrict these things. Their descriptions of worldly pleasures seem - slightly stiff? Slightly rote?
Scenario three. Subject is racial abuse. The by now familiar figure I've been portraying rolls up to tell you that 'However unfortunate it may be that some people feel offended by another individual's choice of words', censorship would still be worse, stifling the natural flow of free conversations. Again, you hadn't suggested censorship.
Does this type of person actually exist? I am describing three different people, who I have actually encountered over the last five years or so; but I mean, have I encountered a style, or set of ideas, that is bigger than these three people? If it does exist, is it fair to call it 'Creepy Liberalism'? Is there already a name for it?
I am unsure whether this thread is worth doing, because it being of interest to anyone apart from me depends on the type of person I'm thinking of actually existing. But still.
― cardamon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:06 (ten years ago) link
http://terryweaver.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/choir.jpg
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:09 (ten years ago) link
seems like the common thread for this fellow is a conflation of legal permissiveness (along the axis of "freed of expression" vs "censorship") and moral/ethical endorsement of that thing? as in, they dont seem to understand that you can offer full throated opposition to something without at the same time calling for governmental/legal recourse in order to rectify it.
― ryan, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:10 (ten years ago) link
i'm w/ u man. fuck free speech. xxp
― Mordy , Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:10 (ten years ago) link
But yes, those people/person do exist. Why call it "creepy liberalism"? I haven't encountered any true liberals that have been this way, it has usually always been conservatives/libertarians or just plain ignorants.
Yes, there's a definite misunderstanding of what 'freedom of speech'/First Amendment refers to in the general public, and I even last week had to explain to someone how Kickstarter pulling a fundraiser for its content was not a violation of said amendment, but at this point I think the only way to solve that problem is to follow the example of the ending of Return of the Living Dead
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:11 (ten years ago) link
really the best way to reply to these clowns is just to quote the First Amendment, given how short it is.
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:14 (ten years ago) link
I think a better description of this attitude is "ignorant and/or uneducated"... obv. tho I don't think its cool to curtail free speech just because its not the government doing it. "Free Speech" has larger connotations than merely the purview of the first amendment.
― This Is My Design, and I Used Helvetica (Viceroy), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:23 (ten years ago) link
viceroy otm
― Mordy , Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:24 (ten years ago) link
but free speech isn't being curtailed if the government isn't preventing it. There's a reason why I can't just walk into my business and shout "EY, SUCK MY OLIVE-OIL SCENTED DICK K THX" and expect to still have my job the next day.
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:30 (ten years ago) link
like if your business removes your posts from the company e-bulletin board, it's lame, but while it's corporate censorship, really isn't a violation of free speech.
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:34 (ten years ago) link
most of these sound like early-20s white libertarian-leaning dude opinions
― mh, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:34 (ten years ago) link
N.B.
Am aware that my OP there may look as if I'm trying to ridicule people I've disagreed with/make out that people who happened to disagree with me on said issues = weirdo.
I'm not - I do think the idea of free speech is a very important one.
Also: this was in a UK context, which may or may not be important.
― cardamon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:41 (ten years ago) link
Ryan:
Yeah, that conflation of the legal and the ethical is definitely part of this style. I've wondered if there's a persecution complex at work here - person always seeing state oppression everywhere, but not in a clear-sighted way. That hunted, haunted psyche might be where the 'creepy' is coming from.
It may also be, as neanderthal says
I haven't encountered any true liberals that have been this way, it has usually always been conservatives/libertarians or just plain ignorants.
i.e. the hijacking of 'free speech' as an idea by people who are not really in full sympathy with it, or only want to instrumentalise it. Disjunction between the demeanour and the actual politics thus being the source of creepy.
― cardamon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:46 (ten years ago) link
you're harping on the lib vs conservative angle but Caring Way Too Much About False Instances of Censorship is a pleasure enjoyed equally by assholes of both orientations
― ty based gay dead computer god (zachlyon), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 08:22 (ten years ago) link
Wellll, maybe just a little
― dj hollingsworth vs dj perry (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 08:26 (ten years ago) link
I feel that this group maybe intersects with the people who call anyone who criticizes any particular group "racist". Like, recently there was incident here in Finland where a local conservative politician posted some blatantly racist, eugenics-influenced comments on his Facebook profile, which unsurprisingly lead to people calling him a Nazi... And then a totally clueless celebrity radio host decided to chide in, saying that it was wrong to criticize the politician, because that's "racist against the Nazis", and he should be free to post whatever he wants.
But yeah, I think these kind of people generally fall into two groups, neither of which I'd call "liberal" in the political sense of the word:
1) Libertarians, who think that having political/civil rights equals being free to say whatever you want about any person or group with no consequences.
2) Conservatives, who twist liberal concepts to benefit their own goals. Racism debates such as the above, where anti-racism is condemned as a "form of racism too", are a particularly good example of this.
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 08:44 (ten years ago) link
i suspect that an unquestioning defence of free speech without recognizing the complexities of edge cases is something that can only come from a position of privilege, ultimately
― for many people a really special folder makes a huge difference (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 09:47 (ten years ago) link
hang on i think i mean that "free speech" only really exists as a legal concept and that's okay and an important concept but it has never really been a trump card in any legal system, it feels simple-minded to adhere to it as such
― for many people a really special folder makes a huge difference (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 09:54 (ten years ago) link
Certainly though cardamom, even if you don't care about the consumption of alcohol or equal rights for women, you surely must be appalled by sharia's strictures against music, right?
― how's life, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 10:08 (ten years ago) link
I mean, this board is called I Love Music.
― how's life, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 10:09 (ten years ago) link
fp
― dj hollingsworth vs dj perry (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 10:17 (ten years ago) link
This board is called "I Love Everything", though. So I assume we love the pleasures of flesh just as much as music.
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 10:27 (ten years ago) link
Surely the free speech argument works in both directions here? If you have a problem with p0rn or sharia you're covered by the 1st amendment just as much as the other guy, no? I'm not saying you should have to have a debate about free speech in order to raise your concerns, but it might be a way to shut down arguments with idiots.
― 29 facepalms, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 10:31 (ten years ago) link
Rly we need the details and positions held during these arguments if this thread is to be any more than 'i talked to a bad man and another bad man' response 'oh no u talked to a bad man oh no'
― dj hollingsworth vs dj perry (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 10:53 (ten years ago) link
Mostly this, although I've also heard some of them from ppl who were not young or white or dudes.
― Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 11:00 (ten years ago) link
― mh, Monday, July 1, 2013 10:34 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yah, not sure what exactly is novel about "creepy liberals"
xp
― well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 11:05 (ten years ago) link
@ darraghmac - I know, and my inability to supply more details kind of undercuts my question. I mean I can't even be sure I'm not remembering a strawman.
@ how's life - I wasn't in favour of sharia law at the time. It was more that of all the ways one might criticise it, this person's seemed to have something a bit odd about it.
― cardamon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 11:55 (ten years ago) link
but now you are in favor of sharia law, right?
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:00 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, I knew what you were saying. I was just fucking around. xp
― how's life, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:01 (ten years ago) link
xp Well, the mu'atizil school of ethics is interesting, but I can only access their ideas in translation
― cardamon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:01 (ten years ago) link
Screw my spelling today. It's Mu'tazilah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%27tazila
― cardamon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:04 (ten years ago) link
gbx otm. liberals are often creepy.
― Me and my pool noodle (contenderizer), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:08 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThrZ9-sS6aM
― abcfsk, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:35 (ten years ago) link
Conservatives, who twist liberal concepts to benefit their own goals.
this sort of bad faith argument is so common on the right i wish it had a name. the general strategy is almost a reductio ad absurdum in which, say, some concept of fairness that leads the left to things like affirmative action is then the same idea that leads conservatives to decry affirmative action as "discriminatory." ("Blacks are the real racists because they talk about race so much," is another favorite one.)
the irony to all this is that it's an absolutely self-defeating gesture because while it's intended to push back against some imagined liberal hegemony, it's instead parasitic on it--there's really no such thing as contemporary conservatism beyond this automatic adolescent rebellion against the left and liberalism. you could almost say it takes place within the assumptions of liberalism in that notions of "social justice" and fairness are equally central but "twisted" into a parody version of themselves. i guess this is what happens when conservatism is unmoored from anything like tradition and replaces it with radical individualism/autonomy (ie, freedom from society).
― ryan, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:35 (ten years ago) link
there's really no such thing as contemporary conservatism beyond this automatic adolescent rebellion against the left and liberalism
This is v. interesting
― cardamon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:15 (ten years ago) link
it's an overstatement, but i think it applies at least in part to the "media" version of conservatism (talk radio, NRO, etc...)
― ryan, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:15 (ten years ago) link
this is what i'd describe as football fan politics, more akin to cheering for a nebulous team, right or wrong, and it definitely has a leftist equivalent
― for many people a really special folder makes a huge difference (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:17 (ten years ago) link
Definitely. The bad faith characterisation aspect too.
― dj hollingsworth vs dj perry (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:18 (ten years ago) link
just came across an interesting passage from Aldous Huxley who defines being a partisan as "egotism at one remove"--a mechanism which allows you to indulge in just about any vice and call it virtue.
― ryan, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:22 (ten years ago) link
there's also a strong element of the coopting of weighted language -- there are phrases that are commonly used, such as "gun control," which are relatively useless when used as intended because they bring up the baggage attached by groups against the concept
― mh, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:26 (ten years ago) link
or, god help us, what people think "feminism" means
when the right invokes 'free speech' or 'racism' to undermine a common leftist position/belief, is that analogous in any way to the left evoking 'security' as a reason why eg the united states shouldn't use drone strikes. (bc they're undermining their own security by radicalizing more terrorists.) in both cases these aren't ideals that are generally associated w/ the political side and you suspect that maybe they're only being brought up as ideological concern trolling.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
i think it's fair game to address an opposition position and try to show that it fails on its own terms as long as you're honest in what you're doing
― for many people a really special folder makes a huge difference (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:32 (ten years ago) link
Mordy, doesn't it depend on whether the ideal is inherent in the original critique or just bolted on?
― cardamon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:39 (ten years ago) link
Why call it "creepy liberalism"? I haven't encountered any true liberals that have been this way, it has usually always been conservatives/libertarians or just plain ignorants.― Neanderthal, Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Really? I see liberals (you know people who read the Guardian or the NYT) making comments like the ones mentioned in the OP very often, especially the third type. like if you followed the recent discussions around the EDL in the UK you'd see self identified "lefties" (ugh @ that term, but I use it specifically to differentiate from leftists) saying "well yeah the EDL are bigots but hey - free speech" or condemning antifash groups for confronting fascists instead of "engaging in reasoned debate" or some bullshit (also see the Tea Defence League thing or a typical Guardian CiF thread). Usually the people invoking free speech in this context aren't the ones who are affected by the bigotry in question, makes it easy.
― My god. Pure ideology. (ey), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 21:00 (ten years ago) link
how do lefties vs leftists pls
― dj hollingsworth vs dj perry (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 21:01 (ten years ago) link
i mean i suppose people on all sides do it, I did when I was 19, but just didn't get why he picked that side in his description
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 21:03 (ten years ago) link
i assume "leftie" = kneejerk football fan leftists and "leftist" = anybody who holds left-leaning political views
― for many people a really special folder makes a huge difference (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 21:04 (ten years ago) link
lol fuckin splitters
― dj hollingsworth vs dj perry (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 21:09 (ten years ago) link
nah cos the former is a subsection of the latter? i mean, i am avowedly a leftist but i try hard not to be a leftie on the whole
― for many people a really special folder makes a huge difference (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 21:10 (ten years ago) link
I mean I can also def remember being that kind of sexually frustrated, overeager know-it-all mansplaining dork a few times in college, not from a right/libertarian perspective but probably with similar effect.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 12 April 2021 12:53 (two years ago) link
Baffert: My horse is a victim of cancel culture pic.twitter.com/PgWWtiidAI— Andrew Feinberg (@AndrewFeinberg) May 10, 2021
― Josefa, Monday, 10 May 2021 22:53 (two years ago) link
Cancel Culture Killed My Dog
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 11 May 2021 00:13 (two years ago) link
Cancel Culture is the NAME OF MY DOG
― sarahell, Tuesday, 18 May 2021 20:08 (two years ago) link
Yooooooo, who’s going to get their philosophy degree from Bari Weiss/Joe Rogan university?
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 8 November 2021 16:06 (two years ago) link
Was sure it would be about the framing of this shit.
pic.twitter.com/GJb8kCc7oj— Sally Hines (@sally_hines) November 8, 2021
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 8 November 2021 16:17 (two years ago) link
Kathleen Stock is on faculty at the new university, so it all connects: https://www.uaustin.org/
Trying to imagine what these courses will be like. How many different ways can you be daringly racist?
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 8 November 2021 16:26 (two years ago) link
You have to get niche and use ethnic slurs not seen since the 18th century.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 8 November 2021 16:31 (two years ago) link
What's Latin for "No Refunds"?
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 8 November 2021 16:33 (two years ago) link
Caveat emptorThat time a libertarian I met in China used that as the basis to argue against any regulation or certification of dentists, lmao. (He was ‘Murican of course.)
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 8 November 2021 16:57 (two years ago) link
Isn't that why Rand Paul made up his own medical org for accreditation?
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 8 November 2021 17:17 (two years ago) link
the only thing that could make dentists worse is doing away with licensing. can you imagine. i always think of this https://abc13.com/thom-tillis-hand-washing-restaurants-comments/503061/
― certified juice therapist (harbl), Monday, 8 November 2021 17:37 (two years ago) link
“I said I don't have a problem with Starbucks if they choose to opt out of this policy as long as they post a sign that says we don't require our employees to wash their hands after leaving the restroom," Tillis said to audience laughter. "The market will take care of that."
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Monday, 8 November 2021 17:51 (two years ago) link
I remember those comments, I call him Poop Hand Thom now
― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Monday, 8 November 2021 17:56 (two years ago) link
it IS kind of interesting how willing conservatives are to embrace reactive policies like "wait for restaurants to get customers sick/killed, then the market will take care of it", whereas in terms of national security, they are ok with pre-emptively deporting people who just look the wrong way color.
― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Monday, 8 November 2021 17:57 (two years ago) link
It’s a one-fork flowchart - “is this a benefit to capital? Y/N”
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 8 November 2021 18:06 (two years ago) link
Ah, I wondered if there was talk of the Forbidden Courses University anywhere. Insane grifting from the purportedly cancelled.
― emil.y, Monday, 8 November 2021 19:21 (two years ago) link
If they had the courage of their convictions — or if they had convictions — they'd locate in some libertarian paradise like rural South Dakota. Instead they get to make noise about moving to freedom-loving Texas, while settling in a liberal metropolis full of coffee shops and bike lanes.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 8 November 2021 19:40 (two years ago) link
Who will be the Aaron Rodgers Chair of Doing Your Own Research?
― A Pile of Ants (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 8 November 2021 20:18 (two years ago) link
Second major resignation from a key post at Bari Weiss' unaccredited grifter university since it went public this monthhttps://t.co/QT4gJxYDAj— Andrés Pertierra (@ASPertierra) November 15, 2021
― mens rea activist (k3vin k.), Monday, 15 November 2021 18:13 (two years ago) link
Will he have to return his gold-plated skull calipers?
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 15 November 2021 18:24 (two years ago) link
Andrew Sullivan was on 60 Minutes this weekend - anybody know if it was a plug for Grifter U., or for Substack "conservatism" more generally?
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 15 November 2021 18:48 (two years ago) link
"calipers" is a fabulous word
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 15 November 2021 19:01 (two years ago) link
but CALPERS is just another cryptic acronym
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 15 November 2021 19:25 (two years ago) link
By mutual & amicable agreement, I'm stepping off the Board of Advisors of U of Austin #UATX, wishing them well. I'm concentrating on Rationality (the book) and Think With Pinker (the BBC radio & podcast series) & won't be speaking on this further. https://t.co/xgo7exT61C— Steven Pinker (@sapinker) November 15, 2021
Stinker out
― papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 16 November 2021 05:39 (two years ago) link
he was revealing himself a bit too openly with that one
― adam t. (abanana), Tuesday, 16 November 2021 06:04 (two years ago) link
what is cryptic about CALifornia Public Employees Retirement System? It's not a particularly imaginative acronym
― sarahell, Thursday, 16 December 2021 00:53 (two years ago) link
Thanks, sarahell. I never realized it before this moment, but now I see that if you expand CALPERS to show all the words it has abbreviated, suddenly it isn't even remotely cryptic! Anyone can figure it out! I'll try this with other acronyms and see if that trick works with them, too!
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 16 December 2021 01:01 (two years ago) link
Sometimes I get it confused with CLASPERS, because I'm a shark pervert.
― peace, man, Thursday, 16 December 2021 01:07 (two years ago) link
I put calpers on my pizza
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Thursday, 16 December 2021 03:35 (two years ago) link
Skull CALPERS
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 16 December 2021 03:45 (two years ago) link
all I'm saying is that California is a very populous state with a lot of government employees and one of the main reasons people choose to work for the state government is benefits such as a pension, administered by CALPERS, from which they receive immense volumes of correspondence throughout their careers and retirement. This is not to be confused with CALSTERS -- the California State Teachers Employee Retirement System, which is separate.
― sarahell, Friday, 17 December 2021 02:39 (two years ago) link
oh, so that's what you were saying. sorry, that went right over my head. I'll try to pay better attention in the future.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 17 December 2021 03:48 (two years ago) link
Or CALPIRG, those bright-eyed kids with the card tables.
― peace, man, Friday, 17 December 2021 11:09 (two years ago) link
aiui many exhibits in the Ghislaine trial are shown only to the jury and a lot of stuff is heavily redacted, but I’m just going to wildly speculate that Pinker showed up in one too many photos from Epstein’s private collection
― caddy lac brougham? (will), Friday, 17 December 2021 12:49 (two years ago) link
xp - idk to me, a cryptic acronym, is either one where you have no idea how the acronym was derived from the name of the thing, or one where even if you know what the full name is, it is still unclear what the thing actually is or does.
― sarahell, Friday, 17 December 2021 16:01 (two years ago) link
Like compare these in terms of "cryptic-ness"
BUTT - Bouncing Undulating Twerking Tool
vs
BUTT - Bettering Understanding Transitional Talismans
― sarahell, Friday, 17 December 2021 16:06 (two years ago) link
can a mod add a new ILX autoreplace?
― Vangelis fleadh (seandalai), Monday, 20 December 2021 13:21 (two years ago) link
Michael Eisen has been canned from eLife. He’s tenured at Berkley so it’s a stretch to describe it as “being canceled.” Twitter is filled with posts about free speech in defense of Eisen and, in a variety of ways, Eisen is representative of creepy liberalism.
I usually don’t have feelings or opinions about these culture or political issues but I, for whatever reason, can’t stop thinking about this today. Eisen is a great scientist but Eisen was a terrible editor.
― Allen (etaeoe), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 20:53 (five months ago) link
There’s also a personal component for me. Because of his following and position he’s the major example of being a bipolar academic on social media. I genuinely feel like I’m a moment from posting something really dumb.
― Allen (etaeoe), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 20:55 (five months ago) link
he can be a terrible editor and suck in a variety of ways but if he was removed from a post due to retweeting an onion article that's still worthy of condemnation.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 21:04 (five months ago) link
I agree. Nevertheless, the eLife letter claims it’s because of multiple (unnamed) incidents. I believe this wasn’t entirely about posting The Onion article. Especially when that’s, compared to some of his other posts, relatively innocuous.
― Allen (etaeoe), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 21:10 (five months ago) link
My first thought when I see stories like that--and I freely admit I know nothing more about this case than what you have posted here--is that there was probably sexual misconduct at the back of it.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 21:13 (five months ago) link
― Allen (etaeoe), Tuesday, October 24, 2023 5:10 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
could you just…say what’s on your mind here? his canning is facially, incontrovertibly preposterous. what other beef do you have exactly?
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 25 October 2023 04:52 (five months ago) link
Posted about this case because it just seemed the weirdest one. But I see tweets like "an academic has been suspended" or "I lost a freelance gig" etc.
Utterly vile. "Free speech" as conducted in liberal democracies is an utter sham.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 25 October 2023 10:04 (five months ago) link
Unsurprisingly, the craven art world seems to be operating similarly as many universities— Artforum Fires Top Editor After Open Letter on Israel-Hamas War
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Friday, 27 October 2023 11:29 (five months ago) link
More on that kerfuffle— artworks have been returned and artists told to “stay in line.” https://theintercept.com/2023/10/26/artforum-artists-gaza-ceasefire-martin-eisenberg/
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Friday, 27 October 2023 12:15 (five months ago) link
"In the future we'll launder money and dodge taxes with only ethnic cleansing-supportive art."
― papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 27 October 2023 13:40 (five months ago) link
A paragraph from that Intercept link that jumped out
The authors of the response letter — the joint directors of Lévy Gorvy Dayan, which has gallery spaces and offices in New York, London, Paris, and Hong Kong — curate shows with some of the most prolific and highest grossing artists in the world, both living and dead. Their website lists Jean-Michel Basquiat, Gerhard Richter, Andy Warhol, Cy Twombly, Joel Mesler, and Adrian Piper as representative artists and collaborators. Dayan is the granddaughter of Moshe Dayan, the Israeli politician and military commander who is alleged to have ordered the country’s military to attack the American naval ship the USS Liberty during the Six-Day War of 1967
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 28 October 2023 21:38 (five months ago) link
IDK if this is exactly the right thread for this. I don't really listen to Huberman, but I find this style of "investigative" smear piece to be gross and a trend I really don't like. AFAICT, the allegations are that Huberman is flaky and a shitty boyfriend? Like if he yelled and acted jealous of a woman's past I can see that that's "toxic" but it hardly seems worthy of reporting on, esp when the woman is a full-fledged adult with education and resources and there doesn't appear to have been any coercion, threats, assault, etc. Like why is "moderately famous person isn't a great guy" worthy of reporting?
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/andrew-huberman-podcast-stanford-joe-rogan.html?fbclid=IwAR3RqYspsmm0DL0VodXpthlf6DC3p-vziR-enLDDmbc9wFRHTnLpakC2P30
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 26 March 2024 01:52 (two days ago) link