bc i've heard a couple of people cite some study that found that people who talk about their potential projects are less likely to follow through on them bc supposedly talking about them scratches the same itch as actually doing them. but then other people think that making their ideas public force them to follow through on them or look like flakes, and also your friends might help improve your ideas or help get them done. seems like a controversial question. what do you think?
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:31 (ten years ago) link
It's hard to say. I tend to not want to talk about things for fear I won't do them, but I'm not sure I do any higher proportion of things I don't talk about than things I do talk about. Like most people, I have way more ideas than time or energy, so I'm not going to do most of them anyway.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:36 (ten years ago) link
telling ppl my plans makes me less likely to do things unless I have a deadline where I need to hand something off to someone else
see: me contributing to almost every ILX comp I committed to with two exceptions caused by IRL interruptions, compared to me not having set foot back in a gym since... 2009?
― THE WORINÐLVE (DJP), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:37 (ten years ago) link
yeah it feels moot because i don't really do anything either way
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:37 (ten years ago) link
tbh, the line of thinking that goes into "don't tell anyone your plans, lest your confession sap your resolve" feels really icky to me in a highly boot-strappy randian way? i seem to vaguely recall the study you're talking about but i feel the premise gained so much traction because it speaks to cultural values of individualism and independence
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:41 (ten years ago) link
anecdotally: when i was quitting smoking i don't think i could have made it a week without smoking if i wasn't accountable to my friends & family, & confident that i had their encouragement & support
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:49 (ten years ago) link
yeah i get this, not always but sometimes. i've told friends recently not to indulge this and one kindly sent me abuse on a daily basis for about a week. <3
― Shamrock Shoe (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:51 (ten years ago) link
the best ideas will be welcomed with scorn, indifference, fake enthusiasm or else be stolen
― rip van wanko, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
ymmv
― rip van wanko, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:54 (ten years ago) link
i try not to tell anyone about anything until it's done or strongly in progress and has a likely end in sight. I don't want someone waiting to see whether I will follow through, I just want to show what is already done or talk about it if it's almost done.
― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:56 (ten years ago) link
i think you're supposed to have something for ransom that your peers destroy if you don't follow through, like in that movie ransom or taken.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:56 (ten years ago) link
xp - not sure what effect this has on my actual follow through, but that's my approach to following through.
― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 20:59 (ten years ago) link
― rip van wanko, Tuesday, July 30, 2013 1:53 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― rip van wanko, Tuesday, July 30, 2013 1:54 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm. i tend to think there is not a causal relationship here but i do think sometimes the reason i might want to talk about an idea to my friends is also the reason why i won't end up doing it.
― maven with rockabilly glasses (Matt P), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 21:06 (ten years ago) link
the reason i might want to talk about an idea to my friends is also the reason why i won't end up doing it
yeah this is fair i guess; but all the same i think there are other factors that are better indicators of meeting a stated goal
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 21:12 (ten years ago) link
bc i've heard a couple of people cite some study that found that people who talk about their potential projects are less likely to follow through on them bc supposedly talking about them scratches the same itch as actually doing them.
absolutely a real phenomenon in my experience.
― wk, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 21:29 (ten years ago) link
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, July 30, 2013 2:12 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh for sure. i definitely think the talking about it/doing it binary is the symptom of a larger dysfunctional (and gendered) approach to work that is only accurate inasmuch as it's believed, otoh i have a hard time not believing it in practice.
― maven with rockabilly glasses (Matt P), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 21:44 (ten years ago) link
Really? I don't understand that at all.Xpost
― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 21:45 (ten years ago) link
in my own experience talking about creative projects that i'd really like to do with other people pretty much dooms them before they're started
― Rothko's Chicken and Waffles (donna rouge), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 21:46 (ten years ago) link
On a kind of mystical mumbo jumbo level, I feel like if I have a really great idea and I want to get it out, then discussing it in detail with somebody else does let out all of the energy that should be going toward actually working on the idea. The idea escapes out of me and says "CU L8r sucker" before I've had a chance to do anything about it.
This is probably more true with less concrete and more conceptual ideas, and especially writing and storytelling. If you have a story inside of you that you want to tell, and you describe a whole outline of it to a friend, then you've told the story and you're done. There's no need to write it down anymore. The level of detail is a factor too. In depth discussions diffuse the energy a lot worse than just saying "I'm writing a book." I think this is similar to the idea that you're supposed to work on something for a fixed amount of time each day and stop while you're still in the groove and eager to keep working. That way you have the drive to pick up where you left off the next day.
On a practical level, rip van winko is otm with the observation that "the best ideas will be welcomed with scorn, indifference, fake enthusiasm or else be stolen". Any kind of reaction you get out of people is probably going to be loaded with all kinds of subtle judgements and doubts so that even if people are perfectly polite about it, you still might be damaging the idea by talking about it too much before it's born.
― wk, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:02 (ten years ago) link
also I think the best and most original ideas are often kind of crazy, so it's best to let them marinate in my crazy head rather than saying them out loud and realizing how ridiculous they actually sound.
― wk, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:05 (ten years ago) link
it's crude but Don't Brag About Your Intentions is probably a reasonable rule of thumb IMO.
― piscesx, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:17 (ten years ago) link
assuming you're bragging
― maven with rockabilly glasses (Matt P), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link
Don't Brag About Your Intentions good idea for a teen in woods morality slasher movie, you should write up a draft immediately
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:24 (ten years ago) link
I'm going to post some really OTM shit itt.
― wk, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:25 (ten years ago) link
DON'T TELL ANYONE ANTHING. EVER! otherwise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njSzOZLT5sk
― scott seward, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:30 (ten years ago) link
b-b-but if i can't tell people what my plans are then how can i get them to crowdfund my project for me???
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:33 (ten years ago) link
LOOSE LIPS!
This is the thread of Scott Seward's Zine, if he's still doing it
― scott seward, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:38 (ten years ago) link
haw
― maven with rockabilly glasses (Matt P), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:39 (ten years ago) link
telling people about it doesn't really affect my motivation, but i've stopped doing it because 1) so much can change during the process that it might end up not being what i've talked about at all, and 2) if i've been talking about it for months, actually finishing the thing seems anti-climactic, or like checking a box, idk.
― precious bonsai children of new york (Jordan), Tuesday, 30 July 2013 22:39 (ten years ago) link
telling people about it doesn't really affect my motivation
if i've been talking about it for months, actually finishing the thing seems anti-climactic, or like checking a box
uh
― wk, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 23:13 (ten years ago) link
Depends on project and people, surely.
Your project is to stop drinking and all your friends are booze-hounds = they might dismiss that, be unhelpful Your project is to stop drinking and you know people who have also stopped drinking = they might be on-board and helpful
If you wanted to set up a festival or some other public event you'd need to get other people involved from early stages anyway
― cardamon, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 12:00 (ten years ago) link
Almost without exception, I only mention something when I'm 100% sure I'll follow through. I may, with a couple of close friends, discuss an idea at an earlier stage, when I'm not sure if anything will ever come of it.
The idea of not following through on something has always seemed like complete failure to me. So I consciously try to avoid such public admissions of failure.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 12:13 (ten years ago) link
I've had this go both ways. I came up with an idea for baked potato nachos and once I told a few people about it, that was as far as I needed to go with it (also I found out TGIF actually has this - it was ass). But more often I tend to not tell people about stuff until I have something to show, usually the early stages of a song. One of the last songs I worked on may not have gotten finished if I hadn't told my friend about it - I was running on empty ideaswise and he got me re-excited about it and we ended up finishing it together.
― Vinnie, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 13:17 (ten years ago) link
ok i tracked down one of the studies cited for this:
When other people take notice of one’s identity-relevant behavioral intentions, one’s performance of the intended behaviors is compromised. This effect occurs both when the intentions are experimenter supplied and when they are self-generated, and is observed in both immediate performance and performance measured over a period of 1 week. It does not emerge when people are not committed to the superordinate identity goal.
http://www.psych.nyu.edu/gollwitzer/09_Gollwitzer_Sheeran_Seifert_Michalski_When_Intentions_.pdf
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 31 July 2013 13:20 (ten years ago) link
It does not emerge when people are not committed to the superordinate identity goal.
this is the most interesting part to me
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 31 July 2013 13:38 (ten years ago) link
later in the conclusion:
Third, recent research by Fishbach and her colleagues (Fishbach & Dhar, 2005; Koo & Fishbach, 2008) suggests that interpreting a behavioral performance in terms of indicating commitment to a goal enhances further goal striving, whereas conceiving of a performance in terms of progress toward a goal reduces further goal striving. This implies that a behavioral intention worded to indicate a strong commitment to the identity goal (e.g., ‘‘I want to write a paper to become a great scientist’’) should be less negatively affected by social reality than a behavioral intention that implies progress toward the identity goal (e.g., ‘‘I intend to write a paper, as is done by great scientists’’).
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 31 July 2013 13:42 (ten years ago) link
I follow this guy on Twitter who's constantly making opaque references to his "Secret Project" and it makes me want to never talk about anything I'm working on ever again.
― Immediate Follower (NA), Wednesday, 30 July 2014 19:44 (nine years ago) link