We need a thread for the FARGO TV show yah? Oh, yah!

TV show is wonderful.

― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Friday, May 2, 2014 12:58 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah I just spent all weekend watching both the OG movie (which I hadnt seen before somehow!!) and then the 3 eps out so far of the series.

It is really fucking good. Billy Bob Thornton's manipulative, delighted menance is just.... so fucking perfect, I loved him.

― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Monday, May 5, 2014 1:40 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Perhaps "bemused" is better than delighted but you can see he's loving the shit out of the horrible things he's doing.

― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Monday, May 5, 2014 1:40 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The little twist last ep linking the events of the show to the events of the film was very cleverly done.

One thing it's lacking is the movie's undercurrent of profound sadness, but maybe that's coming later.

― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Monday, May 12, 2014 2:35 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But in terms of pure watchability I honestly think there might not be anything better out there right now.

― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Monday, May 12, 2014 2:36 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I dunno I think Martin Freeman does the crushed-under-heel hopeless everyman sadness rather well!

― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Monday, May 12, 2014 3:44 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Perhaps we need a proper thread for the show.

― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Monday, May 12, 2014 3:44 AM (7 hours ago)

Yay! What ep are we up to now? I think Ive only seen 3 or 4. I forget. It was a long weekend of Cohen Bros overload.

i think the guy saying "ah jeez ah jeez ah jeez" while killing someone with a hammer was the point where i realized the spirit of the movie had been distilled into a crass formula. whole thing leaves me feeling kind of gross, and not in the way it intends.

Have you only seen the first episode? I wasn't too convinced after that either, but it definitely finds more of its own identity later on. It's broader and cruder than the movie, sure, but the plotting and character interactions have been a joy. It's almost more like a Carl Hiaasen novel or something.

And Trayce, we're up to 4.

i've watched 3, maybe 4 episodes. i like the cast, maybe enough to keep watching, i'm just saying so far it's left a bad taste in my mouth.

had the same feeling, some dude. stopped halfway into ep 1.

I can't believe this isn't getting more props. Best show on TV IMHO

THAT PAYOFF IN THE START OF EP 4 omg.

Then I had to stop watching, cos bf hasnt seen it yet and I'll acidentally spoil it for him when i get drunk tonight knowing me.

BBT dressed as a meek preacher in a cosby cardigan anf dorky glasses was pretty hilarious.

http://thedissolve.com/features/5-10-15-20/572-adam-goldberg-on-rocky-airplane-hardbodies-and-oth/

didn't know he was in this

[SPOILER FOR ANYONE NOT YET CAUGHT UP WARNING]

That backstory in ep4 where the King supermarket guy's car dies in the snow, he asks god for just one little simple miracle, and he finds the case of money that was buried in the Fargo movie - that just killed me.

I'm a bit confused but maybe its not clear yet. Why does Malvo seem to know this, and is messing with him with Biblical plagues?

(I mean I know why hes messing with him - the ransom thing - but why pick the one thing that would fuck the guys head up? How'd he know?)

Has just picked up on the fact he's a bit of a religious nut.

I just noticed that the vent on Adam Goldberg's jacket is still stitched and it's making me irrationally irritated

I don't like this show :(

I mean ... I like it enough to have watched every episode but I really don't know why I'm still watching.

Allison Tolman is wonderful and I like Billy Bob's performance and that's about it.

i'm 4 episodes deep, gonna watch 5-6 tonight

I get the complaints, but honestly, Billy Bob is so good I'd be on board if they just turned the show into a misanthropic Kung Fu, where he travels from town to town fucking up everyone's lives

i'd also be down for a miniseries where he faces off against rust cohle, batman-joker style

That I'd watch.

What is it people dont like about this? I love it - the pacing, the dialogue, BBT's acting.

it's a "dark" comedy full of murdered minnesota-nice archetypes with a charismatic psychopath at the center - whatever reasons I enjoy it, it's hard to begrudge when others don't

Man, If someone just saw dispatching of the its always sunny guy they'd think this show was an extension of Seven.

If there was a choice in Fargo in the film that dignifies putting a children's choir under the scene - well then Fargo ain't as good as I remember

The Minnesotans of ILX are somewhat annoyed with hearing supposedly outstate characters use the words 'casserole' and 'summer house' in their dialogue. ATTENTION, NOAH HAWLEY: IT'S 'CABIN' AND 'HOTDISH'.

I wish I had a time machine so I could just pop back to college and tell him not to forget this.

Adam Goldberg is a little distracting for whatever reason. But this is my favorite show on tv at the moment. It's pretty by-the-numbers but has just enough quirk to make it seem fresh. And BBT and Bilbo Baggins are both excellent. Show wouldn't be half as good without them.

the commercial frequency during the show is ridiculous, though it's still watchable. lead cop girl is sweet, deaf henchman is the grown son in There Will Be Blood? also, confused at the statement that the events are depicted 'exactly as they occurred', as is stated in the movie. Each story is wildly different. William H. Macy sort of immortalised Lester's character... MF does a decent homage?

You know Macy and Freeman play different characters right?

Also the stories are completely different, not just those two actors.

They take place in different time periods with different characters and different settings.

the commercial frequency during the show is ridiculous, though it's still watchable. lead cop girl is sweet, deaf henchman is the grown son in There Will Be Blood? also, confused at the statement that the events are depicted 'exactly as they occurred', as is stated in the movie. Each story is wildly different. William H. Macy sort of immortalised Lester's character... MF pays decent homage?

also, key and peele....?!?

Yeah the TV show is not a remake at all of the movie. Its not even the same town.

Im all caught up afaik (ep 7 I saw last night). Was it just my imagination or was that last ep a bit shorter than usual? It ended with Molly in the carpark standing in shock and just ended kinda suddenly. I had kids distracting me all over the place, maybe it just seemed shorter.

Also when Gus shot Molly I went NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO really loudly hahaha.

The deaf henchman "Mr. Wrench" is indeed the adult HW in TWBB.

key and peele totally took me out of it but they were also a lot of fun

Jeez, only just clocked that Lester's sis in law is Nancy from Peep Show!

this has been excellent thus far.

fuckin good show.

yeah this is great. the snow shootout was fucking awesome, i don't think i've ever seen that before.

martin freeman keeps going lower, it's incredible. it's walter white's entire character arc compressed into a few episodes.

the air of the supernatural around billy bob's character has been amusing but he needs to come down to earth soon i think.

allison tolman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything

Have loved Billy Bob in this, especially his interaction with the fitness blackmailer.

"I'm confused."
"That's all right, I'm not."

Am I the only one that thought when Freeman was getting more... enthusiastic... with Sam's wife that the camera would pull back to show she was dead, that maybe he'd choked her to death?

Got a real Usual Suspects vibe off Freeman walking out of the police station smirking last week.

Yeah him fitting up his brother was awesome. They set the right characters up for knockdown, though I do wonder, will Malvo get a comeuppance? I feel like no. But I dont care! I kind of love his malevolece!

Oh wait - Malvo = malevolent. Ha.

Also yeah the "I'm confused!" "thats ok, I'm not" exchange made me grin.

Keeps getting better

key and peele! why nobody mentioning key and peele!

Who's key and peele and when were they on the show?

Wait were they the feds in the car? That bit was lol.

Yes the file room cops

also, key and peele....?!?

― braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:53 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

key and peele totally took me out of it but they were also a lot of fun

― Clay, Thursday, May 29, 2014 2:04 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Just caught that last ep (8?) with the whole file room banishment and the jump in timeline. Threw me a bit, but the cliffhanger was niiiiiice.

And I like how I'm now kinda really starting to hate Lester, instead of feel he's the underdog.

My favorite moment, as moments go: Lorraine on the phone: "What's the use of being a billionaire if you can't have somebody killed?"---and then! Listens to other person's response, which we can't hear, and then she's like, "Yeah---Ha ha!" Laughing at her own line (not nec. a joek), or the op response, both---billionaires bein' billionaires---epitome of the touch JJL always brings to this mogul fairy godmother, so confident of her power, her authority, that she never has to lean in, just, to Roy or whomever,"Here are your options, and if you chose X---", or just, "Here's how it's gonna be." She loves to see that look in their eyes. Though Dot is a learning experience.

Just like Munch and Roy, she can't quite topple the indomitable Dot. And just as Roy, Munch and Lorraine epitomized different kinds of power and willfulness, so did Dot. One mystery is how Dot, raised as she was, in isolation and subjugation, ended up the person she became, and not like her erstwhile brother Gator, though there is a case to be made that Dot represented a sort of primal goodness, just as Roy represented primal (chaotic?) evil (and Munch kind of neutral evil and Lorraine kind of ... lawful evil? I don't know my D&D tropes, lol).

My Prime ran out just before this last ep, so maybe won't be able to watch for a while (fucked if I'm giving bezos any more of my coin)

Y'know, I had assumed Munch's "pound of flesh" debt was the ear too (though I'd forgot about it already!) but that seemed disproportionate, so now reading some comments here I think I agree he meant the fact she didn't kill Roy, because really, that is what he wanted. He got at Gator, but not Roy.

One odd/annoying thing I found was the subtitles were spelling his name as "Oolay Moonk" when he told them his name. I dont know if that was a weird error, or intentional to show the pronunciation? Do we only know the name otherwise from IMDB?

it was definitely about the ear

I can't remember from the early episodes, but was his partner killed - the one who invaded Dot's house with him on the first night? I thought maybe that was the debt? I don't think it was connected to Roy; back in those early episodes he was upset that he did not defeat his "tiger" - Munch's whole arc is rooted in his initial failure.

Hmm, I recall that Dot did smash his partner's head in with a toilet lid at the gas station, but I'm not sure how much affinity Munch had for that partner; iirc it was kind of like the "Fargo" movie baddies, with one a midwest fuckup but the other partner (in this case, Munch) more enigmatic, and definitely not his friend. But yeah, there are a number of things Munch might consider a debt. Having rescued Dot, her having thwarted his original obligation of capturing her, or having not killed Roy, which is why he rescued her and gave her the gun.

that line that was something like “I’m the largest single donor to the Federalist society” was… oh, we’re playing a different level of the game here entirely. Roy not knowing what that was? what a small-timer

"Koreans make cars?"

Yet even he knows how to livestream, of course! Sign of the times, seriously.

Just like Munch and Roy, she can't quite topple the indomitable Dot. And just as Roy, Munch and Lorraine epitomized different kinds of power and willfulness, so did Dot. One mystery is how Dot, raised as she was, in isolation and subjugation, ended up the person she became, and not like her erstwhile brother Gator, though there is a case to be made that Dot represented a sort of primal goodness, just as Roy represented primal (chaotic?) evil (and Munch kind of neutral evil and Lorraine kind of ... lawful evil? I don't know my D&D tropes, lol).

i enjoyed watching this season fine but i don't feel like it really added up to much ultimately. this show is always so binary about good and evil but can't even do that right (JJL's character is clearly evil but is ultimately treated as a heroine - sure she's come around on dot but she's still a right-wing debtlord). however i did really enjoy the final chunk with munch in the lyons' home. the messaging is pretty simple but the munch/sin-eater thing was the most unique aspect of the show this season, i really enjoy that actor's performance and it brought the strangeness that the season really needed (the puppet show episode was the only other thing approaching this feel and it turned out to be a ~all a dreeeam~).

i've watched every season except 4 (which i started) but i can't remember - has every season been as humorless as this one? i feel like humor is an essential part of the coens' tone and there was nothing approaching funny in this season. like how do you cast lamorne morris and have him be totally serious the entire time?

i guess a way to summarize all that is that this season felt a little too much like a straight crime/revenge story with too few coens-y quirks

This season had less humor than the first three for sure. Or the humor of this season was darker than previous ones.

honestly a great season that lost me completely when the trooper chose to get knifed for no reason.

moonk obv dot's trauma/PTSD just walking around out there. biscuit obv homer's olive tree.

With an extra day to think back on the whole season, I do think this season probably had one too many characters/plot arcs. For instance, Indira stopped having anything to do once she took her new job. And Whit... enough said itt about him already. Jennifer Jason Leigh also went quiet for a few episodes. Nevertheless I loved the whole thing and I think this was the best since s2. This is probably the first show since Mad Man where I think Jon Hamm was truly excellent.

I think the first three were about cops vs. baddies, right? The last season, season 4, was kind of more about feuding factions, which in a sense this season was about, too. I agree that both cops were pretty ancillary in this season, though perhaps to underscore the limitations of legal power.

https://www.vulture.com/article/fargo-jennifer-jason-leigh-lorraine-finale-ending-interview.html

season two also had the kansas city mob vs gerhardt clan faction thing going on, but also there was law enforcement vs other law enforcement with lou being treated dismissively by whoever those other law enforcement guys were, like molly in season one and gloria in season three. seasons three and four had a fatal home visit in the denouement, which also happened in season five, but inverted because of dharma. emmit and loy threw their fates to the wind, as it were, maybe good, maybe bad, but dot was straight up in the sanctified and righteous zone despite being a little bitey and whatnot and therefore what unfolded was totally in keeping with the gestalt. this series has an eternal returns with variations that turn on karma mostly, but also chance, which is part of karma, i'm assuming. some seasons are like other seasons but different, and other seasons aren't, i guess.

regarding witt ,he didn't have to die. he was the only pure character or characterization in this season. he died anyway, doing what he felt obligated to do. danish perished , and it was kinda like, hey! you bastards, you killed dave foley (south park reference), dave foley is my boo! i didn't care for it, frankly. but witt, that was we. we're him, if we're at our best. we're cogs that get our spokes ground off if the wheels grind too hard. his sacrifice is our sacrifice. witt is the kermit the frog, the jim halpert, the point of entry for the common man or woman who is pure of heart and didn't ask for this shit. it's not what we hope for but at best it's what we get. if dot and indira visit our grave and offer respects that's validation of our existence.

also, yeah, there was not a lot of comedy in this season, but imo, that scene where munch was like, a man has a code, and dot and family was all, this is how you make biscuits, that was all-encompassing and over-arching. munch is a theoretical construct carrying the weight of original sin and consequence and the weight of the world and dot flips him with bisquick Jiu-juitsu i didn't outwardly guffaw or lmao but internally i've been irrevoca bly altered. so much seriousness given to munch's pronunciations in this season and then, whatever, this is biscuits and forgiveness. eat it or don't.

a man has a code, that the coen's universe in a nutshell? karma, fate, predestination, character, all as literary theory? teleological imperatives? you can see it coming? grace. dot offered munch grace, like she did to gator, and in that moment i eexperinced absolution and transcendence. granted, this is just a tv show, but i'll take it where i can get it.

wayne and scotty were also pure, but didn't have to confront eventualities like witt. witt is the secret heart of this season even if the character was given short shrift vis a vis narrative weight.it wasn't about him but he did his fucking part and paid for it. .

that aligns with a lot of my thoughts on the season, slugbuggy

the halting conversation between Dot and Munch had the tension of her attempts to feel out where he was coming from while she stayed resolute in her stance. the turning point, where she wasn’t wrong but lacked context, was her point that taking a job implies risk and that if you lose something, it doesn’t mean a debt was incurred, but that you knew you were risking something

Munch’s story about taking on sin (and eating it), when he had no knowledge of the risk and really had no choice as a starving man, was a parallel she didn’t expect. He didn’t know and was wronged. Dot was taken into Roy’s house not knowing what would happen, when she had nothing, too.

I'm convinced that Danish is based mostly on another one-eyed attorney, Phil Ken Sebben.

One of my main irritations in action-trash (which this isn't, want to be clear) is that when the people with super killing skills get going, all law enforcement agencies conveniently disappear. I liked that Fargo S5 had almost every flavor of cops — local police, rural sheriff's departments, highway patrol, FBI, and I think that was DHS in the final showdown unless the FBI has their own tactical assault team. Not that I like cops, but I like verisimilitude.

It was DHS, the product of I believe an overt Trump reference, when Lorraine gripes something along the lines "call the orange idiot, it's time to cash in on all those campaign donations."

“500 years earlier”
This season is SO DUMB watching anyway

I'm convinced that Danish is based mostly on another one-eyed attorney, Phil Ken Sebben.

HA haaaa.... SNOW.

The golfing husband doesn’t know how to grip a club

Don’t think that was unintentional

In ep 10 the denouement started with a half hour to go. I shut it off. Do I need to watch the rest ?

Finally resumed this after a few weeks off so I can get to True Detective; just about to start E7. Have avoided the thread...the possible new bond between matriarch Lyon and Sheriff Olmstead is promising.

you should watch the rest imo xp

I know I won't be saying anything here that wasn't said already (will catch up when I finish), but the ending of E7--the footsteps, the look on Dot's face, "I got you"--quite terrifying.

Let me praise and nitpick over the soundtrack. I love "I'm Your Puppet," so great pick. Seems to come off the radio, stops, then reappears when Dot walks into the diner--are they playing the same station? They missed a potentially great moment: Dot closes her eyes, she's about to lose herself in the song, but they stop it abruptly before she gets the chance. Poor choice--a few seconds more with her eyes closed would have been great.

The Optic Nerve's "A Long Way to Go" was a nice simulation of 1966 garage--wish it had actually been from '66, but that's okay.

Finished up. I don't know if it's necessary to still hide stuff...If you haven't finished, don't read this.

I liked the (unexpected, and thoughtful) turn towards abusive violence in the last few episodes. I didn't expect that--didn't comport with my early impressions of Tillman. Thought JJL's character became more shaded as the season went on, without losing her essential distance, like her awkward embrace with Dot in the final episode ("okeydoke"). Her jailhouse visit with Roy was very satisfying. And I really liked "Whipping Post" to end S9...even though I don't particularly like "Whipping Post"! I just like it when someone's coming from the same general place I am.

Complaints: thought Moonk--the character, and the whole subplot--was a drag. He was obviously meant to evoke Peter Stormare in the movie, but the epilogue to me felt like Noah Hawley wanting to fix (like Tarantino fixing the Manson murders) Anton Chigurth's story in No Country for Old Men. "You don't have to do this" Carla Jean said to Chigurth in No Country; he did, because he couldn't not do it, but Dot manages to find the right words to say. Would have been fine without that last scene and fine without Moonk at all. Also, wish it had been Farr who got to put down Tillman. The way they did it seemed like a very 1960s thing to do.

Don't know how to rank all the seasons except that S2 remains far and away my favourite. The rest all had things I liked.

Well I made it about halfway through rhe denouement, until the point it tried too hard for comedy

The viewership has been declining season over season, this might be the last one?

That would be my guess. I liked the way a character would connect some seasons to others, especially Mike Milligan across S2 and S4. 1, 2, and 4 all connected; can't remember if 3 did. I don't think there was anything in 5, was there?

Pretty sure Hawley said there are likely more seasons in the pipes, but he's also busy with the Alien show now.

Totally loved this season, more than S2, maybe more than S1 even (my previous high bar). It got the tension, the action, the humor, the weirdness, all in great balance. Ending was weird and unexpected and awesome. The "suburban mom who's secretly a fighter and weapons expert" also reminded me of Long Kiss Goodnight a bit

None of the other season have come close to S1 for me personally.

just watched long kiss goodnight for the first time a few days ago, and yes totally

Just watched S1 for first time, it’s not said out right, but Malvo lets the guy from the car lot live (who earlier was buying health insurance). I kind of took it that the car being gone and never explained was like him letting Gus live in the stop earlier in the show.

i'm rewatching no country for old men for the first time in a long time and wondering if the last chunk of the fargo s5 finale is maybe riffing on the javier bardem/kelly macdonald conversation near the end of the movie (though that doesn't seem to work out as well for kelly macdonald)

munch kind of has the anton chigurh haircut

Yeah agreed, clemenza also mentioned this upthread, except I really liked it.

Complaints: thought Moonk--the character, and the whole subplot--was a drag. He was obviously meant to evoke Peter Stormare in the movie, but the epilogue to me felt like Noah Hawley wanting to fix (like Tarantino fixing the Manson murders) Anton Chigurth's story in No Country for Old Men. "You don't have to do this" Carla Jean said to Chigurth in No Country; he did, because he couldn't not do it, but Dot manages to find the right words to say. Would have been fine without that last scene and fine without Moonk at all.

Hawley has explicitly talked about the similarity: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/fargo-season-5-finale-explained-noah-hawley-1235789647/

Kind of makes sense to drag other Coens properties into Fargo, I think of the show as riffing on their whole deal

yeah there have always been allusions to other Coen movies, from direct lifts of dialogue to things like a mysterious otherworldly stranger sitting at the bar in a bowling alley (Ray Wise in season 3).

There are boodles of these references I’m noticing. Hotel hallway in Vegas and in season 2 with ref to Barton Fink. The scene where Bear takes his niece out into the woods has the ‘you don’t have to do this’ from Millers Crossing.

“We are going crazy with boredom out at the lake.” The first show she finds on tv is a nature bug documentary like in the movie Fargo.

Hanzee grilling the guy at the store about the couple is also a bit like the No Country for old Men scene.

White Denim’s cover of “Just Checked In…” was another Big Lebowski ref.

Munch is the dybbuk

I liked the way a character would connect some seasons to others, especially Mike Milligan across S2 and S4. 1, 2, and 4 all connected; can't remember if 3 did. I don't think there was anything in 5, was there?

― clemenza, Saturday, 3 February 2024 17:35 (one month ago) link

I was looking for this too. All I found was that Jason Schwartzman (Josto Faddo from S4) narrates the voiceover in episode 5 from Season 5 called "The Tiger."

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/who-narrates-fargo-season-5-episode-5-the-tiger/