FUCK EDITORS

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I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!

I get to work under a guy who does it purely for the ego. "It's just a hobby," he says whenever I ask him to please be a little more professional or whatever. He actually tells publicists that I'm going to review something or interview someone before even telling me. And then he tells me I have a bad attitude if I say that I can't interview somebody on five minutes notice for the fifth time this month.

I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!I AM NOT MONTEL WILLIAMS!

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:49 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.americanatickets.com/tv/montel.gif
Neither am I.

Montel Williams (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 17 July 2003 18:00 (twenty years ago) link

actually, the right answer is:
http://www.lawandorder-fr.com/photos/svu/thumbs/belzer01.jpg

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Thursday, 17 July 2003 18:02 (twenty years ago) link

try again, horace.

Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 17 July 2003 18:31 (twenty years ago) link

There's no point writing for free weeklies if you don't control the power relationship with the editor. The whole point of free weeklies is to give writers a free ride creatively (hence the "free" in "free weeklies", I thought?!?), because the editors can't provide a good incentive to make you stay if they fuck you over.

This is prob. why so much of the writing in free weeklies is pretty bad though... I mean, everyone but *us* needs editors, right?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 19 July 2003 11:02 (twenty years ago) link

I'd like to be one but I'm not an organiser at all. I suspect this is the general problem.

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 19 July 2003 11:05 (twenty years ago) link

So who does everyone write for, anyway? at least those publications you wish to mention...

Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Saturday, 19 July 2003 15:46 (twenty years ago) link

Mostly the All Music Guide but also Careless Talk Costs Lives, Fake Jazz and now, here and there, the Seattle Weekly -- also The Broken Face now that I think about it. Then there's Freaky Trigger, god bless it!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 19 July 2003 18:07 (twenty years ago) link

two years pass...
There are writers who editors like, and those they’d bet their careers on. How can you be that writer who the editor will call on every time she needs an important assignment to be done? Are you a hot favorite or a pass-on-for-another-freelancer who keeps querying but receives no response? Here are the qualities that will endear you to an editor.

1. Giving more than you promise
When an editor asks for two samples, give her three. If she trusts you with an assignment, don’t wait for the final deadline, but send it in a day in advance. If she’s asked you to provide notes, make sure you give her everything she needs so that she doesn’t have to ask for anything more. If you make an editor’s job easier, she’ll love you for it. And she’ll be willing to trust you again with more assignments.

2. Constantly coming up with fresh slants
There may not be too many new topics (unless you’re writing about technology; then you just can’t complain), but there can always be new slants. An editor likes writers who can reduce her brainwork, and make her look good in front of her superiors by coming up consistently with great ideas.

3. Having all the answers
It’s important to know about your subject. That’s why so many well-paid writers advise you to specialize. So, if an editor calls you to discuss your query, and poses follow-up questions, you better have the answers. Because an editor’s never going to trust you with an assignment unless she’s sure you know what you’re doing. And not having answers to her questions is a sure-shot sign that you don’t.

4. Coming up with clever titles, and great sidebars
The most important thing I’ve learnt so far is to visualize your article. See how it appears on the page. Granted, it’s usually not going to come out like you’d imagined it, but for a minute forget that you’re a writer, and think like a designer. See the beautiful fonts and the shaded box on the side? That’s how the editor sees your article. Now it’s your job to bring that visual to life with your words.

5. Understanding the core audience of the magazine
If you’re writing for a magazine for home PC users, your editor’s not going to appreciate ideas on network security, however wonderful they may be. Similarly, when writing for a small business owner, you’d want to treat that person as a little smarter, even if he might have the same knowledge base as that of a home user. His computing decisions are more important. That’s why you should always be familiar with the reader’s knowledge level. That’ll help you make the distinction between good ideas, and great ones.

Mridu Khullar, Friday, 18 November 2005 15:30 (eighteen years ago) link

got that trife?

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 18 November 2005 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link

#4 is especially OTM because it's so often overlooked.

As for this: "When an editor asks for two samples, give her three," I can't speak for editors at large, but don't do that for me. I've got enough to read without an extra sample. The extra one means you either couldn't make up your mind or you don't have any two that alone will sell your writing.

JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 18 November 2005 15:36 (eighteen years ago) link

haha i do have to say that there's no way i would have employed 2003-era trife

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 18 November 2005 15:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think two samples is ever enough; how can you get an idea of writer's capable of with just two samples? Honestly, the more the better, up to a point (as long as they're not in some big expensive binder that's trying to impress me but, believe me, won't, especially when I take a few samples out then toss the binder.) I'm not gonna read them all, but I'll *skim* them. Two samples tells me very little.

Most of that advice makes pretty good sense, actually. (And I say that as somebody who, early on, used to get pissed when Spin editors changed commas to semicolons. Though later, they did stupider stuff.)

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 15:45 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know. That makes sense, but I also want someone who's going to be easy to work with. Someone whose not following pitch guidelines probably isn't going to follow submission guidelines and is probably going to bug me about changes and when it's running and all that. It's not like I'd get mad or reject someone out of hand for including extra samples, but I just don't think it's wise to start off by ignoring the request of the person you're hoping to work with.

Of course, maybe that's why I'm not a brilliant pitch-maker... :)

JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 18 November 2005 16:21 (eighteen years ago) link

In my experience, editors want 7-10 samples, I try to stick to that range.

Publications I write for:

Baltimore City Paper
Orlando Weekly
Grooves Magazine
Signal-to-Noise Magazine
Miami New Times
Pitch Weekly
Creative Loafing Atlanta
Staticmultimedia

I don’t think there’s any harm in non-local writers writing for alt-weeklies as long as they’re good; it’s important to cover ye olde local scene though. I remember back when the Baltimore City Paper didn’t do anywhere near as much of this as they do now – the volume of venom from local hipster musicians was incredible.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 18 November 2005 16:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, I never tell anybody how many samples I'd want, either. I want to see how many *they* think they should send. If they ask me how many, I kind of consider that an initial mark against them, probably, to be honest. I mean, take the initiative for crissakes! Don't make me do your thinking for you! Right, I want writers who'll make my life easier. So if they ask, I say, "send however many will convince me I should assign you something," and leave it at that. And if they ask me how to pitch a story, I say "pitch in a way that will convince me I should assign it to you." Then it's up to them, as it should be.

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link

> the volume of venom from local hipster musicians was incredible.<

All the more reason NOT to do too much local coverage. (I mean, right, my job is to provide publicity for local hipster musicians.)

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean, we do review local bands plenty as part of the mix, and it would be wrong if we didn't. But scene boosterism for its own sake is the ultimate dud of all duds, and always has been, since forever.

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 17:18 (eighteen years ago) link

In my experience, editors want 7-10 samples

Eep. I'm learning something here.

I never give too specific of pitch guidelines either, so I'm not sure why it bugged me by the suggestion that you should give more samples than requested. I think I just don't like it that someone else assumes they know what I need. Although this thread is pointing out that maybe they do!

JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 18 November 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link

As a marginally talented hipster local musician and an editor, I'm torn on this issue. Good thing local hipsters don't make video games.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 18 November 2005 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link

So if they ask, I say, "send however many will convince me I should assign you something," and leave it at that. And if they ask me how to pitch a story, I say "pitch in a way that will convince me I should assign it to you."

Jeezus.

> the volume of venom from local hipster musicians was incredible.<
All the more reason NOT to do too much local coverage. (I mean, right, my job is to provide publicity for local hipster musicians.)

Did work for a local daily newspaper for years. It was intensely local, sometimes to self-destruction, and the hometown artists had grown accustomed to pattycake treatment. After a couple of weeks, every Monday morning the assistant managing editor for features would be in a really foul mood because he had to answer phone calls from them after I'd slaughtered some hometown favorite over the weekend. The best moment was when a bunch of them brought in a signed petition to have me fired. The griping in the letters section actually seemed to stimulate more readers into looking at the section, which had been one of the most ignored in polls judging aimed at rating what people turned to (sports, the comics and the horoscope always won). If they'd had a sex columnist or someone who told bathroom jokes, that probably would have been first.

George the Animal Steele, Friday, 18 November 2005 17:53 (eighteen years ago) link

7 to 10 is a bit much. I don't have time to wade through all that. I usually like three or four, but from different sources so that I can tell whether the writing reflects the writer's talent or the editors'.

Mridu's advice is good, particularly the bit about fresh slants.

s>c>, Friday, 18 November 2005 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought this was going to be about...

http://karma2.karmadownload.com/images/albums/SKCD77_pic.jpg

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought it was about the editors of Fuck magazine.

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought this thread was about someone who wanted to fuck editors :(

Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link

That thread title could use an editor.

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:16 (eighteen years ago) link

i'd like to see several more of trife's clips before deciding whether to read this thread.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:51 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean, we do review local bands plenty as part of the mix, and it would be wrong if we didn't. But scene boosterism for its own sake is the ultimate dud of all duds, and always has been, since forever.

i have the angry emails to dispute this as my intent in covering local music.

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:55 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost to george: are you familiar with the work of 3D C0ndran? I grew up reading his clips in the Mercury and then the Reading Eagle/Times (R.I.P.) That's your beat kind of, wasn't it?

I never understand why the weekend section focused so much on Anthracite entertainment; it always seem to enforce racialized fears that get so much play in Berks Co. as it is.

w/r/t local coverage in Philly: there's basically a one man monopoly on local band coverage in our weeklies and then there's Philebrity. As someone who actually lives here and doesn't carpetbag from NYC, it's amazing how detached and disillusioned coverage has been of Philly bands generally speaking. Maybe it's for the best; if you've waited on bands as customers, then it's probably better to avoid ever writing about them, right?

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:58 (eighteen years ago) link

well, you just cant become friends with musicians. in my experience this is no bad thing, in the main.

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 18 November 2005 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost to george: are you familiar with the work of 3D C0ndran? I grew up reading his clips in the Mercury and then the Reading Eagle/Times (R.I.P.) That's your beat kind of, wasn't it?

Yeah. I worked for the Allentown Morning Call in the Lehigh Valley, straight east from Berks and up the northeast extension from Philly. Went to college in Reading and the LV and there wasn't a lot of difference between the two. Anyway, after I left the Call, the music editor used some of Condran's free-lance reviews to help fill the hole. Don't remember seeing a lot but I wasn't paying much attention so I'm sure some stuff escaped me.

The Call was really into the local heevahava scene. It was what xhuxk referred to as local boosterism run amok. It had been that way for years. Everyone was totally into hagiography so this was circumvented by starting a new feature called "Nightclubbing," a weekly column that published satirical reviews of the locals in their watering holes alongside similarly voiced reviews of whatever semi-bigshots were at the Fairgrounds or in the Stabler Arena.

George the Animal Steele, Friday, 18 November 2005 19:12 (eighteen years ago) link

well, you just cant become friends with musicians. in my experience this is no bad thing, in the main.

-- strongo hulkington's ghost (wt...) (webmail), November 18th, 2005 7:01 PM. (dubplatestyle) (link)

Yeah, it's weird. With the exception of the ex-Man Man guys, that's pretty easy to maintain, and as someone who's had peripheral experience with Philadelphia, you can understand why. Search Marah and knifepoint and you may find some interesting results.
xpost

When it comes to local Philly weeklies, it seems their predisposed to running the same people's pieces (see Philly Weekly for instance) and not welcome other writers at all, as though it were an affront to the editorial sensibility of the paper. Is this pretty common?

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Friday, 18 November 2005 19:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Local coverage is my bread and butter these days and I find it pretty rewarding, because you can actually see the direct impact of what you write (as upposed to maybe changing a dozen people's minds about a record that thousands/millions already have their own ideas about). And in my experience, if you know the scene well enough to cherry pick the stuff worthy of coverage, then you don't have to resort to scene boosterism for its own sake. And even if I'm not hanging out with any artists like old pals, it is good to network and build relationships, if for nothing else than people are more likely to give me their CDs and I don't have to track down the one store that sells them. If anything, it's the fact that I blog about this stuff that seems to create conflicts, because I'm more honest and frank there. So it doesn't matter if I just wrote an extremely positive 1000-word piece about someone, if I make a little negative comment on the internet, suddenly their manager is all pissed at me. But eh, that's a learning experience.

So far I have no editing horror stories to report from working for Strongo or his predecessor!

Al (sitcom), Friday, 18 November 2005 19:40 (eighteen years ago) link

as upposed to

Hello editors!

Al (sitcom), Friday, 18 November 2005 19:42 (eighteen years ago) link

So it doesn't matter if I just wrote an extremely positive 1000-word piece about someone, if I make a little negative comment on the internet, suddenly their manager is all pissed at me. But eh, that's a learning experience.

Damn Technorati!

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Friday, 18 November 2005 20:19 (eighteen years ago) link

But scene boosterism for its own sake is the ultimate dud of all duds, and always has been, since forever.

Agreed, Chuck ... on the flip side, though, scene-bitching is just as bad. Man-in-the-scene iconoclasm just doesn't have much value or shelf-life anyway you try it ... and that's all I'll say relative to my past experience.

Chris O., Friday, 18 November 2005 20:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Al, are you Tony Ware or Craig Smith?

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 18 November 2005 20:47 (eighteen years ago) link

i can confirm he is not.

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 18 November 2005 20:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Man-in-the-scene iconoclasm just doesn't have much value or shelf-life anyway you try it ...

Depends on the execution. For the operation, it was the most read and anticipated section of the weekend music news.

George the Animal Steele, Friday, 18 November 2005 21:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I think I've figured out who Al is, by mere process of elimination. Dude, your stuff is everywhere and you always manage to kick ass and your first initial is M.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:19 (eighteen years ago) link

and the only album on your 2004 Top Ten list I've heard is Uh Huh Her

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:21 (eighteen years ago) link

occam's razor, dude

'Twan (miccio), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:23 (eighteen years ago) link

ray al had like 28 bylines in the bawlmer city paper last week so it should be easy to figure out. jess if you ever need one of those 'here's a list of some bullshit' things like xhuxkx and matos do sorta lemme know i can whip it up and i will do it for fifteen dollars.

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:37 (eighteen years ago) link

the writers who bitch about editors are almost always the least talented

shookout (shookout), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:38 (eighteen years ago) link

as if

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:39 (eighteen years ago) link

blount isn't a writer

'Twan (miccio), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:48 (eighteen years ago) link

i thought i told you before, i'm a rubber not a writer

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:50 (eighteen years ago) link

OH MY GOD A RUBBER

'Twan (miccio), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:51 (eighteen years ago) link

My personal beef with my editor comes from the need to try to explain EVERY goddamned reference or name with a fucking paragraph, and the impulse to edit things into "concept" pieces. Sometimes I just can't use the local bands to prove some point about the larger industry, y'know? I know those are the columns he wants, but it'd be easier if we had more than, say, 10 decent local active bands... (Oh, and on scenesterism: I'm explicitly directed to write about local stuff, and everything has to have a local angle, while still somehow writing about ALL of the music industry.)

On the other hand, I edit the music reviews on and off, and that's where if I say that I want 300 goddamned words, I want 300 goddamned words. People seem to think that this is something that I'll be pleased to get, 400 extra words on some bland album that I have to cut out anyway. And would it kill them to make a declarative statement that doesn't have "possibly" or "one of the" in it?

And that's leaving aside the hassle of a publisher who cuts the pages randomly and has no interest in funding editorial work at all. ("Yeah, I know that I promised you $25 for your review, Freelancer, but the publisher doesn't cut a check until he runs it, and he's cut the reviews page the last three months. I know it's a dumb policy. No, I can't help you out. Sure, I've got more albums for you to look at, but most of them are 35-year-old white guys rediscovering the blues, and I'm not going to be able to run them until 2008").

js (honestengine), Friday, 18 November 2005 23:54 (eighteen years ago) link


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