TS: Prince or Bowie?

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The "icy detachment" dis on Bowie has always baffled me. If anything, he tends towards overwrought. "Wild is the Wind", "Absolute Beginners," "Rock n Roll Suicide," "Heroes" (esp. the German version), "Slip Away"--this is detachment?

This is the sound of detachment bemoaning its own inability to feel.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:02 (nineteen years ago) link

I really like what Aphex Twin did with "Heroes".

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link

(To my ears, BTW, Prince certainly has the better voice, like, by a ridiculous margin.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:07 (nineteen years ago) link

What about Prince vs Eno?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Music For Assless Chaps

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:09 (nineteen years ago) link

In most walks of (musical) life, Prince vs Bowie is a landslide victory for Bowie. But not on ILM. That's not a complaint, BTW (even though I pick Bowie).

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:16 (nineteen years ago) link

In most walks of (musical) life, Prince vs Bowie is a landslide victory for Bowie.

I find this difficult to believe unless you are defining "musical" to be "Anglicized indie-rock".

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:18 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm still not convinced that the pro-Bowie camp on this thread is not composed entirely of myopic Brits who are overestimating Bowie's impact.

I mean, in America, Prince is unquestionably the more prominent figure, just in terms of exposure.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:18 (nineteen years ago) link

wait, don't English people think Prince only got good with Parade? that says everything you need to know.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:19 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm defining "musical" as "accepted canon". (British moreso than American, for sure. But the American critical establishment still ranks Bowie above Prince)

xpost

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm defining "musical" as "accepted canon". (British moreso than American, for sure. But the American critical establishment still ranks Bowie above Prince)

dude, have you actually read any American music critics?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Purple Rain and Sign O' Times get a lot more love than Ziggy and Station To Station

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:24 (nineteen years ago) link

(cuz they're better)

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:25 (nineteen years ago) link

(duh)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Matos would know.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:28 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5938174?rnd=1105568732835&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.872

Bowie has the highest entry but Prince has more on the list.

VERDICT: Inconclusive because it's Rolling Stone and the rules say that I must insult it.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link

That list is bananas.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link

There is no full-length album by a black artist more consistently rewarding than What's Going On. OK.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Has Prince ever won anything at the Rock N' Roll Hall of fame? Because Bowie has purposely shunned the Hall of Fame and the whole concept of it, even though he was nominated for something there. (unless he's changed his mind since?)

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/6596661/sort/artist/pagenum/8
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/6596661/sort/artist/pagenum/2

Bowie's got 4 songs on the 500 greatest songs of all time list (46. "Heroes", 127. "Changes, 277. "Ziggy Stardust", 481. "Young Americans").

Prince has 6 (52. "When Doves Cry", 108. "Little Red Corvette", 143. "Purple Rain", 212. "1999", 299. "Sign O' The Times", 461. "Kiss")

Prince was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame I think two years ago? Whenever it was, he apparently played a gig with other inductees that was the best induction jam session ever.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:39 (nineteen years ago) link

well, there's Prince's performance of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" at that Hall of Fame induction ceremony a while back has become semi-legendary (meaning experienced feelings of intense jealousy while hearing people talk about it)

altho I don't really see what that has to do with anything...

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:41 (nineteen years ago) link

should be "I experienced" duh

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, I'm past the whole "versus" tbing already, as I thought it was kinda ridiculous (for me) since I saw the thread title...

I would love to see a "TS: Prince vs. Robert Pollard" thread, only to see Matos have to make that excruciating decision.

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, but Bowie has 4 albums on Pitchfork's Best of the 70s list, including the #1 absolute best album of that decade. Prince only has 3 on Best of the 80s, none of which make the top 10. And Bowie has another album on the 80s list as well. And we all know that if Pitchfork says it, it must be true.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahahah PITCHFORK VS ROLLING STONE FITE

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link

hey, Dan SAID unless you are defining "musical" to be "Anglicized indie-rock".

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link

To be fair though, if Prince had been lucky enough to be born 10 years earlier, his music probably would have fared a lot better, since he wouldn't have been saddled with that terrible 80s cheesy synth and gated drum sound on his best work. Bowie had the great fortune of recording his best work during the best decade for rock production in music history.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:50 (nineteen years ago) link

(xpost) Yeah, exactly! My point wasn't even the Prince is better (although I like him more); it was that these days they get a similar amount of critical kudos.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Trying to pick between the two is like picking between water and air, hell I've even got 'Emancipation' and 'never let me down' on CD, but for me it has to be Dame David. Purely for the breadth, range and eccentricity of his work. Also even at his worst it felt like Bowie was still trying, Prince at his worst was just intolerable. (TS Tin Machine II vs Come)

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:55 (nineteen years ago) link

genre-wise, Bowie ranges wider than Prince on what planet exactly?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Rolling Stone and Pitchfork's lists are significant if we're considering status amongst critics. My feeling is that if you asked the VH1 Oracle about Prince and Bowie right now, it'd rank Bowie above Prince as well. I'm not I agree with any of these takes, or that anybody else has to.

I'm also starting to wonder if Canada and the US differ greatly in their opinions on Prince.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not *saying* I agree with any of these takes ...

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:57 (nineteen years ago) link

weren't the rolling stones lists done with pop musicians and shit? Pazz'n'Jop would seem the place to go for critical consensus.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:00 (nineteen years ago) link

genre-wise, Bowie ranges wider than Prince on what planet exactly?

This planet I guess, Prince occupying a different universe entirely. I wouldn't want go through every cd, but genres he's done which I don't think Prince has done; folk, reggae, chanson, ambient, krautrock, d'n'b, industrial, bootlegs, cabaret, classical.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:07 (nineteen years ago) link

also, Prince never had an Anthony Newley phase.. at least not yet.

"Uncle Arthur eats his porridge... OOOOWWWAAAAH!"

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

folk: The Truth
reggae: "Blue Light" from I'm Gonna Change My Name to the Title of This Album (1992)
chanson: "Do U Lie?" (well, probably not, but hey)
ambient: "God" (B-side of "Purple Rain")
cabaret: "Slow Love"
classical: that suite he wrote for his wedding and released on the website

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

"folk, reggae, chanson, ambient, krautrock, d'n'b, industrial, bootlegs, cabaret, classical. "

you are wrong about pretty much all of these, except maybe industrial. "bootleg" is not a genre style.
x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:12 (nineteen years ago) link

I also think there's a d'n'b thing tucked away somewhere, but I'm probably just confusing it w/the house/techno moves on disc three of Emancipation (which is excellent, actually)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

(my god, Bowie did REGGAE?! the horror!)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

in terms of krautrock, the Kraftwerk influence on Prince is really really REALLY prominent on his early 80s stuff - repetitive synth jams that turn instrumental and go on forever, etc.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Now I really want to hear this twenty year old ambient track by Prince.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:16 (nineteen years ago) link

he has other ambient moments in his catalog (some of the spacier sections of N.E.W.S. spring to mind - for what its worth that album is total shit)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link

cabaret: "Slow Love"

uhhh. "Darling Nikki" is a better example.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, you're right.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:18 (nineteen years ago) link

* Prince never was in a video rubbing butts with Mick Jagger covering "Dancing In The Street"

* Bowie never gave up a tour to do a movie along the lines of Under A Cherry Moon.

* Prince never had himself naked on an album cover where HALF HIS BODY WAS THAT OF A DOG!

* Bowie never had entertaining protogé ho side acts like "Iman 6".

So, the score is STILL even.

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:18 (nineteen years ago) link

haha "even"

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:20 (nineteen years ago) link

(my god, Bowie did REGGAE?! the horror!)

It was on Tonight and featured Tina Turner, horror's a bit of an understatement.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:21 (nineteen years ago) link

A quick glance at Christgau's Consumer Guide reveals much more consistently positive ratings for Prince than for Bowie.

FWIW I also get more icy detachment out of "When Doves Cry" than out of Bowie, whom I also hear in more of a 'Byronic melodrama' sort of way.

Maybe Wes Anderson has just ruined Bowie for me a little bit though.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Sundar, even the coda? even the overdubs on the last chorus?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I actually agree with Sundar, re: detachment and "When Doves Cry." He's objectively looking at his problems! Plenty of songs where Prince is more into it.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:24 (nineteen years ago) link

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