FUCK EDITORS

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Well, I never tell anybody how many samples I'd want, either. I want to see how many *they* think they should send. If they ask me how many, I kind of consider that an initial mark against them, probably, to be honest. I mean, take the initiative for crissakes! Don't make me do your thinking for you! Right, I want writers who'll make my life easier. So if they ask, I say, "send however many will convince me I should assign you something," and leave it at that. And if they ask me how to pitch a story, I say "pitch in a way that will convince me I should assign it to you." Then it's up to them, as it should be.

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link

> the volume of venom from local hipster musicians was incredible.<

All the more reason NOT to do too much local coverage. (I mean, right, my job is to provide publicity for local hipster musicians.)

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean, we do review local bands plenty as part of the mix, and it would be wrong if we didn't. But scene boosterism for its own sake is the ultimate dud of all duds, and always has been, since forever.

xhuxk, Friday, 18 November 2005 17:18 (eighteen years ago) link

In my experience, editors want 7-10 samples

Eep. I'm learning something here.

I never give too specific of pitch guidelines either, so I'm not sure why it bugged me by the suggestion that you should give more samples than requested. I think I just don't like it that someone else assumes they know what I need. Although this thread is pointing out that maybe they do!

JC-L (JC-L), Friday, 18 November 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link

As a marginally talented hipster local musician and an editor, I'm torn on this issue. Good thing local hipsters don't make video games.

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 18 November 2005 17:50 (eighteen years ago) link

So if they ask, I say, "send however many will convince me I should assign you something," and leave it at that. And if they ask me how to pitch a story, I say "pitch in a way that will convince me I should assign it to you."

Jeezus.

> the volume of venom from local hipster musicians was incredible.<
All the more reason NOT to do too much local coverage. (I mean, right, my job is to provide publicity for local hipster musicians.)

Did work for a local daily newspaper for years. It was intensely local, sometimes to self-destruction, and the hometown artists had grown accustomed to pattycake treatment. After a couple of weeks, every Monday morning the assistant managing editor for features would be in a really foul mood because he had to answer phone calls from them after I'd slaughtered some hometown favorite over the weekend. The best moment was when a bunch of them brought in a signed petition to have me fired. The griping in the letters section actually seemed to stimulate more readers into looking at the section, which had been one of the most ignored in polls judging aimed at rating what people turned to (sports, the comics and the horoscope always won). If they'd had a sex columnist or someone who told bathroom jokes, that probably would have been first.

George the Animal Steele, Friday, 18 November 2005 17:53 (eighteen years ago) link

7 to 10 is a bit much. I don't have time to wade through all that. I usually like three or four, but from different sources so that I can tell whether the writing reflects the writer's talent or the editors'.

Mridu's advice is good, particularly the bit about fresh slants.

s>c>, Friday, 18 November 2005 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought this was going to be about...

http://karma2.karmadownload.com/images/albums/SKCD77_pic.jpg

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought it was about the editors of Fuck magazine.

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought this thread was about someone who wanted to fuck editors :(

Whiney G. Weingarten (whineyg), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link

That thread title could use an editor.

Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:16 (eighteen years ago) link

i'd like to see several more of trife's clips before deciding whether to read this thread.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:51 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean, we do review local bands plenty as part of the mix, and it would be wrong if we didn't. But scene boosterism for its own sake is the ultimate dud of all duds, and always has been, since forever.

i have the angry emails to dispute this as my intent in covering local music.

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:55 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost to george: are you familiar with the work of 3D C0ndran? I grew up reading his clips in the Mercury and then the Reading Eagle/Times (R.I.P.) That's your beat kind of, wasn't it?

I never understand why the weekend section focused so much on Anthracite entertainment; it always seem to enforce racialized fears that get so much play in Berks Co. as it is.

w/r/t local coverage in Philly: there's basically a one man monopoly on local band coverage in our weeklies and then there's Philebrity. As someone who actually lives here and doesn't carpetbag from NYC, it's amazing how detached and disillusioned coverage has been of Philly bands generally speaking. Maybe it's for the best; if you've waited on bands as customers, then it's probably better to avoid ever writing about them, right?

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Friday, 18 November 2005 18:58 (eighteen years ago) link

well, you just cant become friends with musicians. in my experience this is no bad thing, in the main.

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 18 November 2005 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost to george: are you familiar with the work of 3D C0ndran? I grew up reading his clips in the Mercury and then the Reading Eagle/Times (R.I.P.) That's your beat kind of, wasn't it?

Yeah. I worked for the Allentown Morning Call in the Lehigh Valley, straight east from Berks and up the northeast extension from Philly. Went to college in Reading and the LV and there wasn't a lot of difference between the two. Anyway, after I left the Call, the music editor used some of Condran's free-lance reviews to help fill the hole. Don't remember seeing a lot but I wasn't paying much attention so I'm sure some stuff escaped me.

The Call was really into the local heevahava scene. It was what xhuxk referred to as local boosterism run amok. It had been that way for years. Everyone was totally into hagiography so this was circumvented by starting a new feature called "Nightclubbing," a weekly column that published satirical reviews of the locals in their watering holes alongside similarly voiced reviews of whatever semi-bigshots were at the Fairgrounds or in the Stabler Arena.

George the Animal Steele, Friday, 18 November 2005 19:12 (eighteen years ago) link

well, you just cant become friends with musicians. in my experience this is no bad thing, in the main.

-- strongo hulkington's ghost (wt...) (webmail), November 18th, 2005 7:01 PM. (dubplatestyle) (link)

Yeah, it's weird. With the exception of the ex-Man Man guys, that's pretty easy to maintain, and as someone who's had peripheral experience with Philadelphia, you can understand why. Search Marah and knifepoint and you may find some interesting results.
xpost

When it comes to local Philly weeklies, it seems their predisposed to running the same people's pieces (see Philly Weekly for instance) and not welcome other writers at all, as though it were an affront to the editorial sensibility of the paper. Is this pretty common?

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Friday, 18 November 2005 19:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Local coverage is my bread and butter these days and I find it pretty rewarding, because you can actually see the direct impact of what you write (as upposed to maybe changing a dozen people's minds about a record that thousands/millions already have their own ideas about). And in my experience, if you know the scene well enough to cherry pick the stuff worthy of coverage, then you don't have to resort to scene boosterism for its own sake. And even if I'm not hanging out with any artists like old pals, it is good to network and build relationships, if for nothing else than people are more likely to give me their CDs and I don't have to track down the one store that sells them. If anything, it's the fact that I blog about this stuff that seems to create conflicts, because I'm more honest and frank there. So it doesn't matter if I just wrote an extremely positive 1000-word piece about someone, if I make a little negative comment on the internet, suddenly their manager is all pissed at me. But eh, that's a learning experience.

So far I have no editing horror stories to report from working for Strongo or his predecessor!

Al (sitcom), Friday, 18 November 2005 19:40 (eighteen years ago) link

as upposed to

Hello editors!

Al (sitcom), Friday, 18 November 2005 19:42 (eighteen years ago) link

So it doesn't matter if I just wrote an extremely positive 1000-word piece about someone, if I make a little negative comment on the internet, suddenly their manager is all pissed at me. But eh, that's a learning experience.

Damn Technorati!

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Friday, 18 November 2005 20:19 (eighteen years ago) link

But scene boosterism for its own sake is the ultimate dud of all duds, and always has been, since forever.

Agreed, Chuck ... on the flip side, though, scene-bitching is just as bad. Man-in-the-scene iconoclasm just doesn't have much value or shelf-life anyway you try it ... and that's all I'll say relative to my past experience.

Chris O., Friday, 18 November 2005 20:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Al, are you Tony Ware or Craig Smith?

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 18 November 2005 20:47 (eighteen years ago) link

i can confirm he is not.

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Friday, 18 November 2005 20:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Man-in-the-scene iconoclasm just doesn't have much value or shelf-life anyway you try it ...

Depends on the execution. For the operation, it was the most read and anticipated section of the weekend music news.

George the Animal Steele, Friday, 18 November 2005 21:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I think I've figured out who Al is, by mere process of elimination. Dude, your stuff is everywhere and you always manage to kick ass and your first initial is M.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:19 (eighteen years ago) link

and the only album on your 2004 Top Ten list I've heard is Uh Huh Her

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:21 (eighteen years ago) link

occam's razor, dude

'Twan (miccio), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:23 (eighteen years ago) link

ray al had like 28 bylines in the bawlmer city paper last week so it should be easy to figure out. jess if you ever need one of those 'here's a list of some bullshit' things like xhuxkx and matos do sorta lemme know i can whip it up and i will do it for fifteen dollars.

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:37 (eighteen years ago) link

the writers who bitch about editors are almost always the least talented

shookout (shookout), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:38 (eighteen years ago) link

as if

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:39 (eighteen years ago) link

blount isn't a writer

'Twan (miccio), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:48 (eighteen years ago) link

i thought i told you before, i'm a rubber not a writer

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:50 (eighteen years ago) link

OH MY GOD A RUBBER

'Twan (miccio), Friday, 18 November 2005 21:51 (eighteen years ago) link

My personal beef with my editor comes from the need to try to explain EVERY goddamned reference or name with a fucking paragraph, and the impulse to edit things into "concept" pieces. Sometimes I just can't use the local bands to prove some point about the larger industry, y'know? I know those are the columns he wants, but it'd be easier if we had more than, say, 10 decent local active bands... (Oh, and on scenesterism: I'm explicitly directed to write about local stuff, and everything has to have a local angle, while still somehow writing about ALL of the music industry.)

On the other hand, I edit the music reviews on and off, and that's where if I say that I want 300 goddamned words, I want 300 goddamned words. People seem to think that this is something that I'll be pleased to get, 400 extra words on some bland album that I have to cut out anyway. And would it kill them to make a declarative statement that doesn't have "possibly" or "one of the" in it?

And that's leaving aside the hassle of a publisher who cuts the pages randomly and has no interest in funding editorial work at all. ("Yeah, I know that I promised you $25 for your review, Freelancer, but the publisher doesn't cut a check until he runs it, and he's cut the reviews page the last three months. I know it's a dumb policy. No, I can't help you out. Sure, I've got more albums for you to look at, but most of them are 35-year-old white guys rediscovering the blues, and I'm not going to be able to run them until 2008").

js (honestengine), Friday, 18 November 2005 23:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I think I've figured out who Al is, by mere process of elimination. Dude, your stuff is everywhere and you always manage to kick ass and your first initial is M.

-- Raymond Cummings (gracefulas...), November 18th, 2005.

haha Raymond, you're trying way too hard, my first name is Al and it's the same name as on my bylines, wtf

Al (sitcom), Saturday, 19 November 2005 00:20 (eighteen years ago) link

except for the part about me kicking ass, you got that part right

Al (sitcom), Saturday, 19 November 2005 00:25 (eighteen years ago) link

the publisher doesn't cut a check until he runs it

Yeah, some features are printed two months later, and then he'll wait a while before cutting that check. Meanwhile, you better be respectin deadlines an all.

blunt (blunt), Saturday, 19 November 2005 00:42 (eighteen years ago) link

* ptooey *

blunt (blunt), Saturday, 19 November 2005 00:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I think I've figured out who Al is, by mere process of elimination. Dude, your stuff is everywhere and you always manage to kick ass and your first initial is M.

-- Raymond Cummings (gracefulas...), November 18th, 2005.

haha Raymond, you're trying way too hard, my first name is Al and it's the same name as on my bylines, wtf

-- Al (hoteloper...), November 19th, 2005.

It's Al Shipley right? I like that guy's writing. Who did you think it was?

cliffing, Saturday, 19 November 2005 02:15 (eighteen years ago) link

oh my god...i'm a total moron. aaaaaaaaa!

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 19 November 2005 03:41 (eighteen years ago) link

but yeah al you kick ass too.

Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 19 November 2005 03:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Al Shipley is DOPE and the local b-more drama on gov't names almost makes up for the abrupt absence of dk.

deej.. (deej..), Saturday, 19 November 2005 07:43 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...
Can't live with em, can't kill em.

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 14:54 (seventeen years ago) link

how is it possible that this thread had no posts in '06?

fukasaku tollbooth, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 15:21 (seventeen years ago) link

great year for freelancers.

s1ocki, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 16:13 (seventeen years ago) link

good editors:

jess harvell, baltimore city paper

andrew nosnitsky, scratch magazine

michaelangelo matos, [TBA?]

and what, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

in retrospect this thread comes off as mostly bullshit whining - i have no idea why i thought an athens ga free weekly would be publishing some 19 yr old's dense, injokey, christgau jr style reviews of pop-rap completely unedited

and what, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 16:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I think almost every teenagerish that writes goes throught that I'M HOT SHIT SO DON'T TRY IT phase.

David R., Wednesday, 28 February 2007 16:40 (seventeen years ago) link

You were 19! Give yourself a break.

jim, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 16:40 (seventeen years ago) link

no the reviews themselves were brilliant, obviously - only my surprise was naive

and what, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 16:41 (seventeen years ago) link


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