TS: Prince or Bowie?

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should be "I experienced" duh

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, I'm past the whole "versus" tbing already, as I thought it was kinda ridiculous (for me) since I saw the thread title...

I would love to see a "TS: Prince vs. Robert Pollard" thread, only to see Matos have to make that excruciating decision.

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, but Bowie has 4 albums on Pitchfork's Best of the 70s list, including the #1 absolute best album of that decade. Prince only has 3 on Best of the 80s, none of which make the top 10. And Bowie has another album on the 80s list as well. And we all know that if Pitchfork says it, it must be true.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahahah PITCHFORK VS ROLLING STONE FITE

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link

hey, Dan SAID unless you are defining "musical" to be "Anglicized indie-rock".

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link

To be fair though, if Prince had been lucky enough to be born 10 years earlier, his music probably would have fared a lot better, since he wouldn't have been saddled with that terrible 80s cheesy synth and gated drum sound on his best work. Bowie had the great fortune of recording his best work during the best decade for rock production in music history.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:50 (nineteen years ago) link

(xpost) Yeah, exactly! My point wasn't even the Prince is better (although I like him more); it was that these days they get a similar amount of critical kudos.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Trying to pick between the two is like picking between water and air, hell I've even got 'Emancipation' and 'never let me down' on CD, but for me it has to be Dame David. Purely for the breadth, range and eccentricity of his work. Also even at his worst it felt like Bowie was still trying, Prince at his worst was just intolerable. (TS Tin Machine II vs Come)

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:55 (nineteen years ago) link

genre-wise, Bowie ranges wider than Prince on what planet exactly?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Rolling Stone and Pitchfork's lists are significant if we're considering status amongst critics. My feeling is that if you asked the VH1 Oracle about Prince and Bowie right now, it'd rank Bowie above Prince as well. I'm not I agree with any of these takes, or that anybody else has to.

I'm also starting to wonder if Canada and the US differ greatly in their opinions on Prince.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not *saying* I agree with any of these takes ...

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:57 (nineteen years ago) link

weren't the rolling stones lists done with pop musicians and shit? Pazz'n'Jop would seem the place to go for critical consensus.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:00 (nineteen years ago) link

genre-wise, Bowie ranges wider than Prince on what planet exactly?

This planet I guess, Prince occupying a different universe entirely. I wouldn't want go through every cd, but genres he's done which I don't think Prince has done; folk, reggae, chanson, ambient, krautrock, d'n'b, industrial, bootlegs, cabaret, classical.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:07 (nineteen years ago) link

also, Prince never had an Anthony Newley phase.. at least not yet.

"Uncle Arthur eats his porridge... OOOOWWWAAAAH!"

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

folk: The Truth
reggae: "Blue Light" from I'm Gonna Change My Name to the Title of This Album (1992)
chanson: "Do U Lie?" (well, probably not, but hey)
ambient: "God" (B-side of "Purple Rain")
cabaret: "Slow Love"
classical: that suite he wrote for his wedding and released on the website

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

"folk, reggae, chanson, ambient, krautrock, d'n'b, industrial, bootlegs, cabaret, classical. "

you are wrong about pretty much all of these, except maybe industrial. "bootleg" is not a genre style.
x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:12 (nineteen years ago) link

I also think there's a d'n'b thing tucked away somewhere, but I'm probably just confusing it w/the house/techno moves on disc three of Emancipation (which is excellent, actually)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

(my god, Bowie did REGGAE?! the horror!)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

in terms of krautrock, the Kraftwerk influence on Prince is really really REALLY prominent on his early 80s stuff - repetitive synth jams that turn instrumental and go on forever, etc.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Now I really want to hear this twenty year old ambient track by Prince.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:16 (nineteen years ago) link

he has other ambient moments in his catalog (some of the spacier sections of N.E.W.S. spring to mind - for what its worth that album is total shit)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link

cabaret: "Slow Love"

uhhh. "Darling Nikki" is a better example.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, you're right.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:18 (nineteen years ago) link

* Prince never was in a video rubbing butts with Mick Jagger covering "Dancing In The Street"

* Bowie never gave up a tour to do a movie along the lines of Under A Cherry Moon.

* Prince never had himself naked on an album cover where HALF HIS BODY WAS THAT OF A DOG!

* Bowie never had entertaining protogé ho side acts like "Iman 6".

So, the score is STILL even.

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:18 (nineteen years ago) link

haha "even"

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:20 (nineteen years ago) link

(my god, Bowie did REGGAE?! the horror!)

It was on Tonight and featured Tina Turner, horror's a bit of an understatement.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:21 (nineteen years ago) link

A quick glance at Christgau's Consumer Guide reveals much more consistently positive ratings for Prince than for Bowie.

FWIW I also get more icy detachment out of "When Doves Cry" than out of Bowie, whom I also hear in more of a 'Byronic melodrama' sort of way.

Maybe Wes Anderson has just ruined Bowie for me a little bit though.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Sundar, even the coda? even the overdubs on the last chorus?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I actually agree with Sundar, re: detachment and "When Doves Cry." He's objectively looking at his problems! Plenty of songs where Prince is more into it.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:24 (nineteen years ago) link

The question is whether Bowie could do anything like "Sometimes It Snows In April."

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:25 (nineteen years ago) link

sure, he starts off doing that in "WDC," but by the end he's slobbering and screaming. the way the fore and background vocals work off each other makes it work, he's detached and crying-on-the-inside both at once. like on "Forever in My Life" or "It" where the lead is all force and emotion while the background vocals are sneery and detached.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:26 (nineteen years ago) link

The question is whether Bowie could do anything like "Sometimes It Snows In April."

Well, while I wouldn't called "Life On Mars?" an *exact* parallel.....

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Bowie slobbered and screams a lot too. In fact when "WDC" came up I thought "Gee, Bowie did something kind of similar to that with "Ashes To Ashes," actually."

(haha x-post)

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:29 (nineteen years ago) link

"Forever In My Life" and "It" are good examples of the kind of directness that Bowie isn't really able to pull off without getting camp, though.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I think Anthony means whether Bowie could sing something the way Prince sings "April," without hamming it up in his inimitably uptight way.
haha xpost

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:31 (nineteen years ago) link

not just that. I saw Prince go the song solo on guitar last year and it was mind-blowingly affecting. Could Bowie just do GRIEF without quotation marks?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:32 (nineteen years ago) link

The inability to connect with another person seems like something they actually share ("WDC"/"ATA")

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Taking sides: Intro to "Diamond Dogs" vs. Intro to "Let's Go Crazy"

And again, the singing thing. Fine.. a lot of people consider that a paramount attribute in the quality of one artist over another, and while I think it's important, I feel there are far more qualities just as important as a wide vocal range and a good use of it.

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:33 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm still waiting for that one Bowie has that Prince doesn't.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

..well, as I mentioned upthread, and this is purely my opinion... solid albums in his peak period. Except for Purple Rain and Sign 'O' The Times, I don't think Prince's 80s oevre is as solid on a per album basis. Just my opinion.

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't think Bowie has ever made a truly great full-length (STS and SMASC come the closest), but that's definitely an idiosyncratic stance.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Between Hunky Dory and Scary Monsters, not counting live albums or soundtracks, Bowie has had a near perfect record.

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Okay, if the worst of Prince is represented by Come, that is a fucking stellar body of work with no flaws. Not even I believe that and I'm probably the fifth-most rabid Prince booster on ILM.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:40 (nineteen years ago) link

A quick glance at Christgau's Consumer Guide reveals much more consistently positive ratings for Prince than for Bowie
Also FWIW, AMG ratings have Bowie with five 5-star albums, and three 4.5-star albums. Prince has four 5-star albums, and two 4.5-star albums.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:40 (nineteen years ago) link

My brain says Prince, but my heart says Bowie. And Prince didn't write "Moonage Daydream", "Life on Mars?", "Ashes to Ashes" or "Oh You Pretty Things", so there you go.

― darin (darin), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:44 (nineteen years ago) link

should it matter that the quality of Bowie's output has depended much MUCH heavier on collaboration and outside help, whereas Prince has consistently been pretty much a one-man show?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:45 (nineteen years ago) link

cuz, y'know, not to get all r***ist on yr asses, but Prince plays guitar (and piano, and bass, and tons of other stuff) better than Bowie plays saxophone.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:47 (nineteen years ago) link

(I was about to make an awful joke that would have derailed the thread but sadly it was pointed at the wrong argument)

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:49 (nineteen years ago) link

if you want, we seem to all be passionately defending one, the other, or both on our own criteria anyway, which is why I stand by my "even" score, and why the impetus of the thread was ridiculous in the first place...(which technically makes all Taking Sides threads equally ridiculous, but I think this one has been one of the best taking sides threads, though)

― donut christ (donut), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Shakey Mo Collier beat me to the collaboration/one-man-show part of my argument.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 January 2005 23:52 (nineteen years ago) link

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