Betty Davis

fair enough if someone hates the way 'lost classics' are revered just for being old and obscure but betty is one of those occasions where it wasnt obscure because it was shit, but for other reasons.

Great article, Matos! After fighting with a friend a few days ago about why her voice sucked - and listening to him insisting that "it's the funk that matters" – I feel vindicated.

(Those two albums aren't bad at all, just quite ok)

'Game Is My Middle Name' kinda owns.

'In the Meantime' is pretty sweet too axshully.

Why should the hype not fit into a piece about Davis? As if the hype isn't part of the context that she's being heard in, and as if it doesn't have a lot to do with how her reissue is being marketed. (Just like any other record, for crissakes). And as if talking honestly about the hype prevents somebody from also talking honestly about the music (which Matos did, in that piece, in more detail than anybody else I've read has done.)

Personally, I like her more than Esquivel, less than Os Mutantes (who were overrated too.)

I also love all this "she's inept therefore she's avant-garde" logic. Hell, you could use it for pretty much any lousy artist ever, couldn't you?

journalists angry about hpe = teh roflz

hi, could someone please explain how "hype" exists for these albums? first time i heard of her was probably someone mentioning her in a funk thread here. i've been listening to her since the last round of bootlegs came out and know about two people who like her. HYPESPLOSION! i sure am a fucking rube.

xp

i just feel like SOME PEOPLE are more pissed about "hype" and "record snobs" than, you know, "the music."

gott punch OTM

journalists in war over cred shockah

(ie "I heard it first and it sucks! You are a sucker for buying the album based on what other journos told you - listen to meeeeeeee")

Horseshit. Matos talks about "the music" more than anybody on this thread has.

that article's about the music just as much as the (equally long) ones in Wax Poetics and the Chronicle

actually wait no those other two articles (from THE HYPE MACHINEtm I assume) are longer

I guess I'm always surprised/disappointed when journos feel the need to spend their talents talking about things they don't like. Why discourage other people's enjoyment, is there not enough out there that you DO like to write about?

Why shouldn't journos just write about records that are interesting to write about, whether they like them or not?

Actually, come to think of it, though, that Incredible Bongo Band reissue last year didn't really live up to its hype, either. And I'm pretty sure Matos fell for that one lock, stock, and barrel. So we're all susceptible (me included). Plus, duh, we don't all have the same ears (or nervous systems). But that doesn't make Matos's Davis piece any less valid.

Because it's our job to explain why something sucks?

(xpost)

xp: (And I LOVE a few Incredible Bongo Band tracks, by the way. So let's not get into a war about that one too. Just found the reissue disappointing, as a whole.)

I've never heard the Incredible Bongo Band (uh-oh - HYPE FAILURE!) so no worries there

Because it's our job to explain why something sucks?

that's... sad.

I don't understand, Shakey. Why else read criticism? You're the last person I'd expect to advocate advocacy, btw.

I guess I'm always surprised/disappointed when internet people feel the need to spend their talents talking about reviews they don't like. Why discourage other people's enjoyment, is there not enough out there that you DO like to write about?

I also love all this "she's inept therefore she's avant-garde" logic.

I love it too, in general. Love it to pieces. Except, no one here is really saying that about Betty Davis.

I don't understand, Shakey. Why else read criticism? You're the last person I'd expect to advocate advocacy, btw.

you don't know me very well, I guess.

when it comes to criticism (and internet msg boards are a different matter/medium, btw) I prefer to read about things people are excited about. Sometimes it presents an opportunity to share in the excitement/discover something I may enjoy. Negative criticism is usually invested in some sort of War of Aesthetics-type conflict that I don't have any interest in. Maybe that interested me at some point when I was younger, but not anymore...

Should movie reviewers only write about movies they like, too? And what about restaurant critics?

Btw, "hype" is only in the subhed, which I assume Matos didn't write, not in the actual story.

Should movie reviewers only write about movies they like, too? And what about restaurant critics?

sure why not

Negative criticism is usually invested in some sort of War of Aesthetics-type conflict that I don't have any interest in. Maybe that interested me at some point when I was younger, but not anymore...

But the whole point of criticism is to stimulate debate! I rarely agree with my favorite critics.

this sounds like a poptimistic hangover. was the whole rockist thing that much of a cultural revolution in music criticism that folks are afraid to write/read negative reviews?

precisely the kind of War of Aesthetics ref'd above that I have no interest in... I think it comes down to a realization that taking the required either/or position on what an artform should or shouldn't do ultimately just closes me off to various things I might otherwise enjoy, and that isn't really healthy or helpful.

As far as the point of criticism being to stimulate debate, that's a tricky one I'm not sure I agree with - the implication is that some kind of dialectical conflict is required for something to be interesting, that criticism's overarching goal is to set up pro- and con- aesthetic positions, to start arguments. Which I can see as having value as an intellectual exercise (sharpen critical thinking skills and all that, hi Socrates), and enjoyable to the extent that it kills time at work (as it currently is for me here on ILM) - but I am alternately bored/irritated to the extent to which this debate must be had at the expense of the enjoyment of others. If someone likes something I hate for whatever reason, hey whatever at least they've found some joy in the world, who is it hurting, etc. Maybe I'll make fun of it for some laughs (cf DMB thread), but I'm not gonna invest any serious time or emotional energy in focusing on stuff that has no basic appeal to me.

... and I admit this is a complex issue that has a lot of nuances embedded in it, I am making some sweeping generalizations here to which I know there are exceptions...

I'm just surprised is all. You're one of the guys I respect here the most. Given the intelligence of most of your posts (especially on ILX), reading that you're tired of journos needing "to spend their talents talking about things they don't like" made me go wtf, especially when you don't mince words on the political threads.

War of Aesthetics... taking the required either/or position on what an artform should or shouldn't do

How is anybody doing this in relation to Betty Davis, exactly? People are just saying they don't love the record. (And how is loving it any less taking a side in a "War of Aesthetics," whatever that means, than not loving it?)

someone respects me?! what universe is this

politics are one of those complicated nuances I was ref'ing to - obviously I don't have a problem taking (at times strident) political positions, but that is usually a result of a deeply ingrained desire for, y'know, people to stop killing each other and live in peace and harmony and all that "hippie bullshit". And sometimes that overlaps with music/art/whathaveyou in all kinds of ways (for ex. I know xhuhx loves him some Montgomery Gentry, country guys that, based on the POV expressed in their work, I find largely repellant and would never really want to listen to or financially support.)

x-post

xp Also, I think it's pretty clear that most of the people criticizing Betty Davis's music (Matos included) are people for whom she does hold a certain "basic appeal". Her music just doesn't live up to what that appeal leads them to hope for. (I.E., her hair and clothes promise a funkiness her voice can't pull off.)

How is anybody doing this in relation to Betty Davis, exactly?

well, for one example, see Matos' claims about her voice and what it doesn't do (it ignores the beat - what's wrong with ignoring the beat? why should I care if it ignores the beat at all?)

I hold to my original position that what REALLY seems to annoy the Betty haterz is the breathless admiration she's been given by a small cadre of critics and record collectors.

Should movie reviewers only write about movies they like, too? And what about restaurant critics?

sure why not

LOCK THREAD AND/OR BRAINS

xgau:

Betty Davis [Just Sunshine, 1973]
Between her connections (wife of Miles, girlfriend of Jimi) and her concept (autonomous black woman forges metal funk), Betty's got a head start in the hype department. She makes up for these advantages, however, with a forced, narrow voice and a complete absence of riff sense or melodic gift. On the other hand, she--or producer-drummer Greg Errico of the Family Stone--does know a lot about rhythm. Upshot: most overstated comic-book sex since Angelfood McSpade. B-

matos is a 'clown'??? :-O

board beef

Who cares what this guy thinks. Music Reviewers get on my nerves, pretentious college kids with a dictionary and a mouth full of shit.

lolol

oof I dunno about that Angelfood McSpade ref, that's uh... in poor taste at the very least

Upshot: most overstated comic-book sex since Angelfood McSpade. B-

Let the record show that this is the same Robert Christgau who gave Sonic Youth's Grateful Dead tribute album (aka, A Thousand Leaves, aka worse than the album Grandpa released) an A+.

Let the record also show that the witness made the "drinky-drinky" motion.

slow clap.

hahaha from that SoulStrut thread:

The main thing I remember reading by him was a meditation about being nudged back from the brink of suicide by the wonders contained with the Mo Wax Headz box set (yes, I am for real).

hahaha no you are NOT for real, because that's never happened in my life.

I think you should fire off an angry e-mail correcting them

how about a petulant one that wonders why people have to disagree with me in public?

or you could write a mean-spirited kiss-off song and call it "Dedicated to the Internets"

man, i love statler and waldorf. more! more!

you know what my favorite part of Matos' review was? the end!