i think the moon hate upthread is totally crazy -- i dont think 'lone wolf' is a fair way to characterize a drummer who was such a defining part of the songs he was on, its like getting mad at puffy interjections on biggie records -- it assumes theres some 'natural' version of the track out there somewhere -- expect moon was maybe an even stronger part of what made those songs what they are. i voted moon.
that said bonham was the fuckin man and crazy talented
love this so much esp the latin freakout at the end -- and i cant believe and what doesnt know his zeppelin
― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 06:41 (fifteen years ago) link
you know that part of led zeppelin's 'fool in the rain' ...
― tipsy mothra, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 06:47 (fifteen years ago) link
Both great in their own ways..Moon with the heart of a naughty kid..Bonham with the muscle memory of a top golfer..
― Lincolnshire, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 07:10 (fifteen years ago) link
its like getting mad at puffy interjections on biggie records
lol I'm not sure if you're aware how much I hate puffy interjections on biggie records
― J0hn D., Tuesday, 16 December 2008 07:46 (fifteen years ago) link
it wasn't until Tommy that Moon was finally recorded properly.
I dunno. I agree with Entwistle's comments about Kit Lambert making "the drums sound like biscuit tins." - still, "Overture" and "Amazing Journey" are some of Moon's finest moments.
Bonham fans really need to seek out the bootleg of Bonham's isolated drum takes from In Through The Out Door. Tremendous stuff!
― Chris Barrus (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 08:16 (fifteen years ago) link
Here they are: http://www.saladrecords.com/bonhamfiles.htm
― Chris Barrus (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 08:19 (fifteen years ago) link
"cant believe and what doesnt know his zeppelin"
why is everybody buggin out on this
mom only fux with jazz muzik + dad listened to pre-rock pop ish
anybody wanna make me a zep mix im 400% down
― freek-a-luriqua (and what), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 08:28 (fifteen years ago) link
man if somebody else hasn't picked that up when I get home next week I am on it E
― J0hn D., Tuesday, 16 December 2008 08:41 (fifteen years ago) link
good point except it's totally not
― Granny Dainger, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 14:28 (fifteen years ago) link
u dont get what im saying -- the idea is that keith moon's drum parts on who tracks on like 'happy jack' are as much a part of the compositions as anything else w/in the song
― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 15:45 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah...but puffy is still a terrible comparison.
― The rickroll from the hilarious NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP, NEVER GONNA (some dude), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 15:47 (fifteen years ago) link
As long as we're making jazz references ... when I first heard that famous Charlie Parker sax break in "Night In Tunisia" I got that same "holy shit" feeling I'd been having listening to Moon for years. Chops, yes, but more importantly a brief extraordinary burst of controlled chaos. It's all over The Who's music -- that Anyway clip upthread is just one example. I love Bonham for the groove etc. but rarely get that from him even on his longer solos.
― Jake Brown, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 15:54 (fifteen years ago) link
deej, on behalf of drummers everywhere, i am deeply, deeply offended by that comparison. (also, hi, any drum part is "as much a part of the compositions as anything else w/in the song")
― expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:02 (fifteen years ago) link
not really
― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:14 (fifteen years ago) link
i.e. night in tunisia which has been recorded w/ tons of diff drum styles over time yet remains the same song
― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:15 (fifteen years ago) link
i would say each version with different drums is a distinct piece of music ie not the same "song". but this is OT. point is that was a shitty comparison. puffy talking over a track is nowhere near similar to moon's or any other drummer's contribution to any piece of music.
― expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:26 (fifteen years ago) link
i think we're talking about the song vs the recording here, and it's totally subjective...some drum parts become signature things that the song would sound weird without, and most don't.
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:32 (fifteen years ago) link
^^^exactly
― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:35 (fifteen years ago) link
(and personally i hate hearing zep songs w/out bonham, and most of his shit is totally signature to me :D)
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link
if a drummer isn't creating a memorable part that becomes integral to the composition, he's failed imo. would a biggie track ever sound weird to you without puffy talking over it? if you say yes i don't believe you, so there.
― expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:40 (fifteen years ago) link
there are plenty of classic (and great) rock songs that have generic, purely functional drum parts
― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:51 (fifteen years ago) link
ah but they serve a function and the song would be a different one if they were different. and they all could've been even better with better drum parts. basically you're saying you melody and harmony are more important to a song's DNA than drums, no?
― expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:57 (fifteen years ago) link
and that these are equivalent statements?"i don't like moon's drumming there. ruins the song""i don't like puffy's interjections. ruins the song"
― expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 16:59 (fifteen years ago) link
granny i feel like i'm betraying my people or something here, but deej has a point.
xp
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 17:00 (fifteen years ago) link
The only point I see is that a lot of songs have weak drum parts, and that Biggie tracks would sound weird without Puffy's interjections. I only agree with the former.
― expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 17:20 (fifteen years ago) link
I guess those are two points, huh
some drum parts become signature things that the song would sound weird without, and most don't.
depends on the genre, doesn't it? or are you only talking about rock, in the first place?
― expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 17:22 (fifteen years ago) link
I can't imagine "Big Poppa" without Puffy's parts, but anybody could have delivered them, it's not like his "how you livin' Biggie Smalls?" is SO INCREDIBLY FRESH as to rule out anybody else giving it - you know? So while I see yr point deej I still think it's bogus but I would say that because as president of the Society For Are-You-Still-Bugging-About-That I have to fulfill my obligations in this important election season
vote for me, I still hate Puffy
― J0hn D., Tuesday, 16 December 2008 19:52 (fifteen years ago) link
Darn1e11e/Puffy beef back ON
― Passenger 57 (rogermexico.), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 19:57 (fifteen years ago) link
For me, it's Mitch Mitchell, THEN Bonham, THEN everybody else including Moon.
― Ye Mad Puffin, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 20:08 (fifteen years ago) link
Oh and now I am remembering this thread from long ago
You know that part of Led Zeppelin's "Fool in the Rain" where they come out of the silly Latin section back into the main piano riff and there's like a steadily rising drum roll and
Wherein mad props were given to Bonham's fills circa In Through the Out Door and somebody posted the raw drum trax and we were in heaven for a brief lovely while
― Ye Mad Puffin, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 20:14 (fifteen years ago) link
yup, good thread.
(btw that first fill after the samba part in "fool in the rain" is totally overdubbed btw)
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 20:16 (fifteen years ago) link
do people feel that bonham was consistently brilliant througout his career in zep?
― get that pion down you son (Frogman Henry), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 20:16 (fifteen years ago) link
yes, people do.
― ian, Tuesday, 16 December 2008 21:19 (fifteen years ago) link
i wish he had lived to be an 80's - 90's session dude
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Tuesday, 16 December 2008 21:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 00:01 (fifteen years ago) link
if he'd lived, i'm pretty sure he'd be getting by fine without playing shoddy studio gigs.
― ian, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 00:30 (fifteen years ago) link
sure, he wouldn't have had to play at all, but i'd hope that at some point he would've wanted to do something other than play w/the same three dudes
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 December 2008 00:34 (fifteen years ago) link
John Bonham would have sounded excellent playing behind about anyone, as he has that rare combination of power and bounce but I cannot really imagine what The Who would have sounded like without Keith Moon. Take something like "Going Mobile", Moon is going so batshit crazy on the fills on the last part of that song, I just don't see how ANY other drummer could have made it work like that. While the songwriting in The Who was really well done, I cannot see The Who having the success they did without Moon, as they would probably have been a lot more straight ahead sounding and would not have gotten as wild and might not lead to Townsend going as far out on his songwriting.
Led Zep definitely would not have been as epic if say Ansley Dunbar was the drummer, but they would have probably still have been a pretty good blues rock styled band. I can't see them getting as far out as they did.
I'll tell you this, Steve Shelley at one point in Sonic Youth would get that forever drum roll like Keith Moon, especially in the Daydream Nation/Sister/Dirty era. At one point that crazy drum rolls like Moon just quit happening and to me, I really think that is the point I lost interest in SY.
Bill Ward is the dude that I think doesn't get the props he should, especially considering the stature of Black Sabbath. That dude could groove like Bonham and at points would get really wild with the fills, maybe not as much as Moon, but pretty out there like on Wheel of Confusion.
Ian Paice is also a really killer drummer.
― earlnash, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 00:58 (fifteen years ago) link
Steve Shelley is way underrated.
― nicky lo-fi, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 03:00 (fifteen years ago) link
the weird free-groove breaks in 'flight of the rat' are mind-blowing
― Phonetic Elvis. (stevie), Wednesday, 17 December 2008 09:09 (fifteen years ago) link
I voted for Moon because any time I really fucking need to hear some drums I play Happy Jack.
― dj onimotian (onimo), Wednesday, 17 December 2008 11:19 (fifteen years ago) link
Keith Moon by far
1. Better drummer
and
2. The wildest human being ever in showbiz
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 12:07 (fifteen years ago) link
And even though he was rather unique in his drumming style, his extramusical life and behaviour are my main reasons for going for Keith Moon. :)
Btw. whatever happened to that movie they were supposed to be making about his life? I was really looking forward to it.
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 12:09 (fifteen years ago) link
Supposedly Daltrey (who started and is overseeing the Moon bio-pic project) has yet to find a decent script, and has already rejected more than a few.
― Sara Sara Sara, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 12:12 (fifteen years ago) link
OTMFM. The rapid decline in Sonic Youth's music can be directly traced to the sudden lifelessness of Steve Shelley's playing.
― Sara Sara Sara, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 12:14 (fifteen years ago) link
"Bill Ward is the dude that I think doesn't get the props he should, especially considering the stature of Black Sabbath. That dude could groove like Bonham and at points would get really wild with the fills, maybe not as much as Moon, but pretty out there like on Wheel of Confusion.
Ian Paice is also a really killer drummer."
Both points OTM. Paice's finest moment is the album Burn. What a fucking drummer.
― Bill Magill, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 16:16 (fifteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Thursday, 18 December 2008 00:01 (fifteen years ago) link
poll results tough but fair
― butt-rock miyagi (rogermexico.), Thursday, 18 December 2008 00:06 (fifteen years ago) link
with that kind of turn out it's more or less scientifically proven
― sonderangerbot, Thursday, 18 December 2008 00:11 (fifteen years ago) link