78 Collectors: Why are they so weird?

Wow! Didn't know you'd be upping them this quickly! Thanx!

Looks like this one's from the 1944 film Gharam wa intiqam and the song is "Ana ahwa" or "Ahwa, Ahwa." Here's a clip form the movie (though it's not the song in question):

this is a really great tune ian

sounds good, ian.

she has a website with audio but th audio doesn't seem to work anymore:

http://www.asmahan.com/

last fm has a good asmahan station too.

Audacity's noise removal routine seemed to make the file sound both muffled & digitally distorted.

otm. I think you need somethin more like ProTools level software to remove hiss and even then it probably strips out too much stuff you want to keep. the only thing I do in Audacity is go in manually and take out the worst spikes and pops.

can't wait to check these songs out, thx for posting

http://www.sendspace.com/file/m8p95k

From the same film. "My Dreams" violin solo.
The English on the label doesn't tell me the instrumentalist's name. Eventually scans of the labels will be coming btw.

^ist that david schwimmer to the left?

thanks for sharing these, I really dig the instrumental one. I cosign not messing with the sound too much, if anyone is bothered by it they can do it themselves...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/wid1fv

Here is a third track from the same film. Also credited to Asmahan on the label, is there also an uncredited singer? It seems like there MIGHT be two voices here. It's called "Don't Blame Us." This one was a bit noisier than the flip side (the violin solo) and may be recorded a little quiet. When I tried to rip at a higher volume it began to slightly distort the vocal parts. There's an annoying bit of a buzz, so this one I might try to work with a little. We'll see.

Are these too quiet, in general?

keep in mind i'm listening to the files with crummy built-in macbook speakers. so maybe they sound better than i think, or maybe worse.

Thanks for these! They're decent enough for a quick listen on the laptop or whatever. And surely you don't want to remove the inch-coat of fluff that one associates with the sound of 78s? But then I'm not fussy, and know nothing about ripping 78s. Or even vinyl for that matter.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zeyx80

This one is a vocal duet by Fareed & Sabah on Al-Chark Records. There is no English song title. The label is pretty nice, it's a blue background with silver lettering & a detail of three pyramids also in silver. Egyptian?

Again there is a buzz during some of the quiet bits, but i think this might be my favorite so far. Side 2 coming up later; next want to try one of the 12" 78s. There are a few nice clean ones, and they have a really nice label that looks a bit like this, but on red. http://www.tedstaunton.com/labels/1910-1919.pages/Amour.Gramophone.Record/image/amour.gif The cherub is the same, and the text is laid out similarly

^^^ that is for the label on the 12" 78, NOT the Fareed & Sabbah track. Let me see if I can find that label, it's nice.

I don't think I can hotlink to blogspot, so here:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eNQqGZfs3PI/SRiaMkJ7RRI/AAAAAAAAJa8/PIbLE0XXe2Q/s1600-h/tn-300_LABEL-AL-CHARKRECORDS_460B.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eNQqGZfs3PI/SRiaMkJ7RRI/AAAAAAAAJa8/PIbLE0XXe2Q/s1600-h/tn-300_LABEL-AL-CHARKRECORDS_460B.jpg

That's a similar label, but a group of pyramids instead of the sun.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/jdnzbj

This is the first half of 12". The text above the angel says: Concert Record "Grammophon." And below: Arabian / male song / Bikoul marsoum amarnil hosn / Cheikh Yousself el Menialawi, Caire / Order number 60122

I'd guess this one is from the late teens or early twenties, but I'm no expert.

This is a nice gallery of Arabic 78 labels, but I wish there was more info.

http://78records.cdbpdx.com/Arabic/

http://www.sendspace.com/file/dvfb8q

Here is the second part of the Fareed & Sabah 78. The first time I ripped it, I was using the line-in but got that annoying electrical buzz (you know the kind i mean.) So I re-recorded it by mic'ing the speaker on the 78 player. Primitive, but it sounds okay. It's got some worn grooves, which you will hear.

Cool thing ian. Good to see your conversion to the weird side of the 78.

ugh, i don't really like the way that last one came out. i'll try to re-do it tomorrow. doing the b-side of the 12" next, then i'm gonna go home. maybe if i feel up to it, once i get home i'll rip a few American 78s.

Second part of the 12"

Took a few tries, but i think this one sounds okay. It is by the same artist, and the title is "Aghibtou li sahyeddahr."

http://www.sendspace.com/file/z7dle9

http://www.sendspace.com/file/opv0rx

Two sides by Ray Jones: "Southern Yodel Blues" and "Farm John's Yodel." Taken from a remarkably clean 78 on Columbia (black label electrical.) More Arabic 78s coming soon. I ripped six more sides this evening, after vigorously cleaning the discs. Also used the 78 needle. The results are at least a bit better than before. I'll upload those tomorrow once get the pops worked out.

FarmER John's Yodel, of course.

This is a fantastic public service you are doing ian.

I love yodeling.

Did the Bulgarian singers ever technically "yodel"? I'm not sure they did.

No, they didn't yodel. Nope. But their music is always better than yodeling, I think.

Pappa you are not on AIM right now. I think I've already seen that clip, actually. Please chat on AIM thanks.

my god…

no matter what the weather's like, it's always nice & warm

did we ever figure out why 78 collectors are so weird?

not yet.

alright let's keep working on it then

i think the popular image of the 78 collector is, unfortunately, heavily colored by hollywood films like Crumb & Ghost World, which may be why we (regular people) perceive them as weird. A great many of the high level 78 collectors are also very wealthy, which could have something to do with their eccentricity. Not to even mention the theories psychologists have come up with the explain even the more general collecting impulse...

desperate man blues is on pitchfork.tv this week. bussard seems pretty weird, but enjoyably so. he's got a great story-telling voice.

Nauck's Vintage Record Auction ends May 2nd; any other ILXors bidding? I like to bid low on a bunch of stuff, not expecting to win more than a few things. It's a nice surprise when the results come out.

btw I only won two hawaiian 78s from this auction. not a single hillbilly 78! sad.

ian, i feel like we would have a lot to talk about.

i haven't got t he 78 bug yet because (a) i have no room in my apt for anything else anyway and (b) i have to be careful to hold on to whatever savings i still have after all the books, records, and other crap i buy. i should say though that my girlfriend would probably totally be into it if i started collecting 78s. she seems to find my record-obsessing quirks completely charming. which basically means i lucked out.

and this...

Listening to LP compilations of 78s really does lose a certain amount of the recordings' nuance. there is much more audible detail when the recording is heard at its intended 78 rotations per minute.

...is absolutely true, and i'm no audiophile or analog fetishist. 78s sound amazing if you play them on the right equipment, and presuming they are in good shape. i should say though that you can master 78s to digital well, or you can master them poorly. it's amazing how different the "same" 78 can sound on a series of different compilations. there's a compilation of mid-1950s congolese music called "roots of rumba rock," which is one of my favorite collections of music ever (if not *the* favorite), which probably has the most incredible mastering of 78 RPM discs i have ever heard. it's astonishing, the level of detail and the brightness of the sound here. it's amazing how well those discs were pressed. they were pressed in belgium or france, which helps to explain it.

in any event, at the closing of the liner notes for that collection (which i don't have to hand, therefore i'll have to paraphrase), the author/compiler vincent kenis has a great quote that goes something like, "the limitations of the cd format cannot capture the amazing sound of the original 78s." it's beautiful because it inverts the standard disclaimer, "the amazing cd technology captures flaws present on the original 78s." ironically as noted the cds in question capture the sound of 78 rpm discs as good as anything i've ever heard.

p.s. one annoying thing about those k-cheap UK comps on JSP is that some of them will have remarkable mastering (e.g. the stuff mastered by davies before he died, and some of the curated comps) but others will sound absolutely horrible, mastered from shitty copies or from vinyl 33rpm reissues -- and still others will literally be carbon copies of CDs released by e.g. document a decade ago, and will also sound like crap. so buyer beware. quality control does not seem to be JSP's forte.

p.p.s. joe bussard strikes me as eccentric but by no means particularly "weird," maladjusted, etc. for that watch that terrifying documentary entitled "vinyl." -- many of the folks in that documentary are very deluded, cut off from the real world, etc. at the very least bussard has a sense of where his collecting fits into the larger world, a sense of what his collection is worth (monetarily and culturally) compared to other collections, etc.

Any recommendations on the best-sounding JSPs? I'm pretty much open to anything.

I just want to chime in and needlessly add my opinion that I've never heard a better 78 comp than the BLACK MIRROR comp that Ian Nagoski did. That thing is remarkable, and I love his notes in the booklet, as well.

that's a good one.

the victrola favorites collection is also interesting. not sure what i think about the deluxxxe fetishizing scrapbook of 78-related ephemera that it comes packaged in. the whole "we're going to present this stuff to you in a way that seeks to simulate not of experience listening to them in their original context, but rather the wonderment of the collector's encounter with the strange and unfamiliar" meme is intriguing but i think it's ultimately a dead-end. anyway the MO in that comp seemed to be to master the 78s in a way that the full materiality of the 78-as-object is apparent, with all the non-musical sounds that implies -- as well, they seemed interested in capturing the sounds of the 78s as played on certain machines. this is an interesting approach, i admit.

best-sounding JSPs? hmmm. look for anything that says john r.t. davies was involved in the mastering. but those are just a few of the earlier sets (jelly roll morton, louis armstrong) when they were still bothering to reissue jazz.

the best recent JSP comp is definitely "jook joint blues: that's what they want," a collection of mostly k-obscure postwar electrified country blues. it represents a species of electric blues that's not far removed from the idiosyncrasies of prewar country blues that people so cherish, in fact it seems the logical extension of that sound plus amplification. totally recommended.

the "a richer tradition," which focus on the african-american string-band tradition, sounds pretty good and is super interesting.

in general most of the country comps on JSP seem compromised by poor source material and/or indifferent mastering. though they are still essential just because... where else will you get all of roy acuff's early sides? without paying bear family prices?

that reminds me -- bear family's CDs almost always sound great, at least for the past 15 years or so. but good luck affording them. (the "west indian rhythm" calypso box set, an amazing document, sounds almost as good as the aforementioned "roots of rumba rock" thing.)

wish this thread had more activity, the whole field seems to be thriving

Compilations of early recordings of World Music - 1920's-50's

I second amateurist's recommendation of the JSP edition of Armstrong's Hot Fives and Sevens.

yeah? are they markedly better than the columbia/legacy set?

Apparently the mastering job on the Columbia set is inferior to the JSP. The JSP is about half the price too.

Tylerw: here's a representative review from Amazon:

1.0 out of 5 stars Sloppy production, horrid sound (but a nice book), November 13, 2000
By Allan Sutton (Denver, CO USA) - See all my reviews
This review is from: The Complete Hot Five and Hot Seven Recordings (Audio CD)
The reprocessing on this (...) compilation is among the worst in years: thin, harsh, and (on the first two CDs) with nearly overwhelming surface noise. Take it from a collector who owns original copies of many of these sides: The originals do NOT sound this bad! Some selections on the first CD were obviously taken from old tapes (a telltale "pre-echo" is clearly audible) rather than being freshly remastered. The noise problem abates somewhat on CDs 3 and 4, but the transfers remain curiously thin and harsh with an inexplicably weak bass compared to the brilliantly recorded originals. Incidentally, all four CDs had glue on the playing surfaces (removable with alcohol; but why should one have to clean a $ set?). The accompanying hardcover book is visually stunning if you can overlook the warped binding boards, and it's not without some sloppy discographical errors. (Among other gaffs, Sony apparently is trying to rewrite record-industry history, making the ludicrous claim that they -- rather than Columbia and Okeh -- produced the original issues!) A far better alternative, at half the price, is JSP's Hot Five/Hot Seven set, masterfully reprocessed by John R.T. Davies. You won't get a book, but you'll get clean, richly detailed transfers that do justice to these historic sides in a way that this set does not.

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Hot-Five-Seven-Recordings/dp/B000GRTQP2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1243461024&sr=8-2

huh! didn't know that, i'll have to track down the JSP stuff. helps that it is so bargain-priced, too.