Stevie Wonder-- C or D?

http://www.mtv.co.uk/channel/mtvuk/news/06062008/423854/stevie_wonder_european_tour

Man, is this guy a great drummer. I'm listening to "Bird of Beauty" and "Have a Talk With God."

"Higher Ground"! He's got a cupla good backbeats on the last album.

He's like Ringo -- he gets a great SOUND from his instrument. You can distinguish him from other players.

He's hanging off the back of the beat even more than Charlie Watts = CLASSIC

A couple really distinctive things I've noticed about his drumming are that a) he tends to bust out with triplets on the cymbal against an otherwise straight-8th base and b) his tendency to use the ride cymbal in the function of the hi-hat, which makes those tricky cymbal rhythms sound clearer than they would played on the hat.

"What'd I Say" = #1 influence on Stevie as a drummer imo

Yeah, that makes sense -- that kind of busyness. He plays fills that I don't think anybody else could get away with on "Bird of Beauty."

Btw, who was the drummer on "What'd I Say"? That mf is my hero.

Also, the hats/ride tend to be mixed LOUD on Stevie's records. Cymbals, cymbals, cymbals.

But yeah, basically Stevie is a monster on the trap.

also he does a lot of overdubbing & multitracking (ie playing just the cymbals, then just the snare, and/or multiple hi-hat parts like on 'i wish')

Listening to "Bird of Beauty", the most amazing thing about the drumming is how ably he inserts all his oddball fills right into the middle of the groove, instead of breaking from the groove to fill. He just inserts all these other drums around the maintained pattern.

xp: I feel like you just told me Santa Claus doesn't exist.

I believe he also played drums on (and produced) "It's A Shame."

'i wish' is a pretty good one to hear how he does his shit btw, there a lots of times when the hi-hat on the right is playing something different than the one on the left or when there are two-handed fills when both hi-hats are still going. not that he always breaks it down like this, but listening to 'bird of beauty' there are parts where it sounds likely.

But on the real side:

Marvin Gaye began as a drummer too. Say what you want about Berry Gordy, but he knew what we most look forward to in a song.

Listening to "Bird of Beauty", the most amazing thing about the drumming is how ably he inserts all his oddball fills right into the middle of the groove, instead of breaking from the groove to fill. He just inserts all these other drums around the maintained pattern.

ha, that's because he is literally maintaining the groove on one track and doing oddball fills on another, i'm pretty sure.

not that i'm knocking it, that shit was ahead of its time and he makes it sound great.

'it's a shame' is awesome, i had no idea he played drums on it. the soul band i'm in does that song, i'll have to listen a little bit closer to the drum part.

yup, he at least double-tracked the hi-hats on 'it's a shame', maybe more. check the breakdown.

Jordan droppin' science

yeah this is fab, Jordan; you're helping me hear the songs differently (better, I think); this is the kind of shit I really come to ILM for.

No way I can believe we have to discuss this. Dud? Really? Maybe not even if you've only listened to I Just Called To Say I Love You. The man's body of work is just amazing.

Yeah, thanks, Jordan.

Listening to "Bird of Beauty", the most amazing thing about the drumming is how ably he inserts all his oddball fills right into the middle of the groove, instead of breaking from the groove to fill. He just inserts all these other drums around the maintained pattern.

And however he did it, this is OTM.

Overrated? Not likely. Underrated if anything. Whenever I put on any of the 5 70s albums listed above I find it hard to think of anyone who is not just a better all-rounder, but better individually at playing/writing/singing full-stop.

I got Talking Book and Innervisions in a boot sale.

TB has Superstition, but too many ballads for me.

I'd play Innervisions anytime.

Any Time.

that's more a S&D case, isn't it? no doubt he'll always be classic for all he did in the 70s.

Guys, breathing is overrated. Dud.

Anybody who says D should have their vote taken away, just like the idiots who didnt vote for Rickey Henderson for the HOF.

interesting wiki entry, thanks for the mention of a baseball hero I had no knowledge of.

what i'd really love to know is what order he tended to record his tracks in. did he do the drums first, and then did he start with the kick & snare or cymbals? did he use a click (or the early 70s equivalent)?

Can't help you there. All I know is the story about "It's A Shame" as related in Dennis Coffey's book. He tried to get Uriel and Pistol to play it the way he wanted it. They did it over and over but he just wasn't satisfied so they got up off their drum kits and said "YOU play it!"

Actually maybe you could go over to soulful detroit and see if Dennis Coffey or Bob Babbitt or somebody could tell you more.

"interesting wiki entry, thanks for the mention of a baseball hero I had no knowledge of."

ha ha, no problem

I think he's over-rated and given too much praise.

Dud

I think jj meant to say "Aretha."

Rickey Henderson/Stevie Wonder analogy really works, both show overwhelming technical mastery and dedication to craft of course but also exude style & seem to blow away the competition by sheer force of their larger-than-life personalities.

xpost heretic

ok, a few too many drippy ballads, but seriously: Superstition, If You Really Love Me, etc....genius.
I'll never forget standing outside my school as a teenager in the early 80s and this black guy walks past with a massive ghettoblaster pumping out Sir Duke. That intro blew my mind.

Dud for the mu-mus and the lyrical platitudes, some classic music.

The song he wrote for Obama was cringe-worthy.

what i'd really love to know is what order he tended to record his tracks in. did he do the drums first, and then did he start with the kick & snare or cymbals? did he use a click (or the early 70s equivalent)?

Have you seen the "Greatest Albums" doc about Songs in the Key of Life? Haven't seen it in awhile, but there may be a scene where he breaks his process down. In any case, it's an interesting program.

Superstition 16 track tape:

01 - Kick Drum Mic
02 - Drum Overhead L
03 - Drum Overhead R
04 - Lead Vocal 1
05 - Lead Vocal 2
06 - Clavinet Dub 1 through tape echo
07 - Clavinet Dub 2 through tape echo
08 - Clavinet Dub 1 L
09 - Clavinet Dub 1 R
10 - Clavinet Dub 2 L
11 - Clavinet Dub 2 R
12 - Clavinet Dub 2 Room Mic L
13 - Clavinet Dub 2 Room Mic R
14 - Horns Dub 1
15 - Horns Dub 2
16 - Moog Bass

yeah i think the drums on superstition are straight-up live.

wow, i never noticed that superstition had synth bass before. and it sounds so sloppy by itself (but is obv. super funky in the track). thanks for posting that.

I Just Called to Say I Love You is much maligned but it's an incredibly good song.

A very good singer and songwriter. I was always amazed he could play music on the piano being blind. He started out as a singles artist and then became such a great albums artists too.

And he is still only 58 years old which is also amazing.

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Don't get me wrong, he's a genius. Or he was, at least...

I mean,

Oh, wait, I thought this was about Greta Van Fleet. I meant classic, sorry Stevie.

"A Seed's A Star" is so fantastic I only wish it didn't sound like it was emerging from a transistor radio.

and of course this Wonder-ful creation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGhSJIMHeoo

During lockdown, I took the time to re-evaluate his post-Hotter than July recordings. Robert Christgau's always defended those records, and while I don't think they're very consistent records (much less great ones), Christgau wasn't completely wrong. Barring some health or mental issue, talent doesn't completely dry up overnight for artists like Stevie Wonder, where not a single memorable hook or melody is suddenly beyond their ability. He was completely overshadowed as an innovator thanks to Prince and Michael Jackson, and he still had a weakness for syrupy glop, but he still crafted a few good tunes every now and then.

Yeah, I rediscovered "Never In Your Sun" this last year and cherish it fully.

A Time for Love in particular suffers from post-'90s CD-era bloat, but, damn, it's got jams. And he was still stretching as a balladeer.

This resequenced version of the most approachable material on Plants would've made for a still eccentric listen but still far more agreeable as part of the magnificent 1972-1982 streak.

Side A
"Send One Your Love" – 4:01
"Outside My Window" – 5:29
"The Secret Life of Plants" – 4:17
"Race Babbling" – 8:51

Side B
"Black Orchid" – 3:47
"Same Old Story" – 3:44
"Power Flower" – 5:29
"Come Back as a Flower" – 4:59
"A Seed's a Star/Tree Medley" – 5:53

Side B not quite as seamless with songs coming at you in complementary keys, but hey, I worked with what I had.

Ah thanks, I'll try your version ! Never managed to get into that album although I love all the ones before (and even some after... well, Hotter and parts of Square...).

You could even stick in "Kesse Ye Lolo De Ye" of the latter half of "Voyage to India" as something to give Side A some more space if you wanted.

I'd miss "Ecclesiastes" in that version.

So after listening to this version I like it ! Basically all ballads/smooth songs.
I could do without "Race Babbling" which is fun but a bit silly and far too long for its own good.

I could never do without 'Race Babbling'!

Just a heads-up: There's some good discussion of Stevie Wonder by Hanif Abdurraqib and Fred Moten on the most recent Millennials Are Killing Capitalism Podcast

https://www.patreon.com/posts/hanif-abdurraqib-51211207 - starting around 45:40

anyone else look at the cover of Music From My Mind and thought damn this dude got some tiny hands??