Can You Force Yourself To Like A Record Through Blunt-Force Repetition?

(I think HMV opened up a new store up the other end of Oxford Street a little while ago fwiw, in the building which was the HMV flagship store when I first started record shopping in London in 1982 or whenever.)

I don't know why I'm saying "store" not "shop", it'll always be the HMV Shop to me.

if there are people who are scared of being "the sort of person who likes pop" there are surely also people who enjoy being "the sort of person who looks like they wouldn't like pop but actually does like pop", right? I mean, we can play with and enjoy layered ways of thinking about ouselves and perceptions of ourselves.

absolutely. the one doesn't undermine the other.

Should be possible to find Interpol albums and many other forms of indie pop detritus at Poundland.

Thanks, Tim. Fizzles did suggest this last night, but I have buggered my left ankle and could not face walking down to the other end of Oxford St at that point.

I looked at Poundland. I looked at Oxfam. I looked at Cancer Research. I looked at British Heart Foundation. There is lots of indie detritus. There is no Indiepol.

They seek him here, they seek him there
In Regents Street, and Leicester Square!

https://31.media.tumblr.com/5c3c2382525cab9d4ca89235a6ea68f2/tumblr_n031c4z14Q1rjw8sqo1_500.gif

Poundland does seem to be a place where you can buy the cream of shit music from ten years ago.

I still have not managed to hear a single note of Indiepol's music, but I now know all their names, and which one I fancy the most. This feels like progress, in my world.

Don't want to prejudice your investigation here, but the actual music on that first Interpol record is actually alright imo. You're fairly well disposed to stuff like the Bunnymen, the Psychedelic Furs and New Order right? I think as long as you can deal with them aping those bands you'll be halfway there, but the biggest barriers to enjoyment are the terrible vocals and lyrics. Not sure if those will improve much with listening, but you might be able to tune them out after a while.

Terrible vocals, terrible lyrics, and the fact that the singer shares both a first name and a surname with the two most objectively awful boyfriends of my life.

Where is Rob? I told him to come and post his experiences with this project on this thread, instead of teasing me on twitter, where is he?

If you remember I chose a 'canonical' album for this exercise but didn't reveal what it was. BB knew what it was as we discussed it off-board. The reason I chose it was because I bought it in '94 not long after it was issued and hated it. It was supposed to be this wonderful album, the future on one disc and I didn't get it at all. All I heard was doodles - pretty doodles. And more than anything I felt jealous. Because this was the kind of music I'd been making at home for years. Admittedly this album was better than what I'd done, but it just sounded like my music only on a slightly bigger budget. So I played it a few times, didn't like it much and put it away. From time to time I'd play it and think "No, still don't see the appeal". Oh and I TOTALLY objected to the album title, feeling I was completely mis-sold the record. It didn't do what it said on the tin, to paraphrase Ronseal. It seemed like the natural choice for this exercise.

I've played this LP twice since Sunday night and already I have changed my mind on it. With time and distance I can recognise that it's far superior to anything I ever made, and that the artist's future progression far outstrips anything I could manage. So my personal objections are nullified. As for the music itself, I have absolutely no objection to it now and find it pleasant, tuneful and interesting. I used to think it repetitive and boring. I was wrong, there is always something interesting going on. I am quite happy to keep listening to this album without recourse to a gun at my head. Therefore I can't really carry on using this album for the experiment so may have to go to "Close to the edge". After all, if I turned that off after 13 minutes then I really do have to work through my dislike of it.

Now you've got me trying to guess what it is.

IMO, you can carry on using the album for this experiment, because the experiment has clearly worked! It would be interesting to see if more listening made you swing your opinion back round to not liking it again. (Then again, I've listened to that album 100s of times and still find something of worth each time.)

Though if you'd really rather do the experiment over again with an album you still really hate (Close To The Edge) I guess that would be a second set of data.

SAW2 i reckon xp

s/o BB for starting the syllabus thread, always ask musicians about it now in interviews.

I kind of want to do this, but I'm pretty sure I have the "stick-to-itiveness" problem mentioned upthread. Also, no idea what I'd choose. Mariah Carey?

But then I sort of get the rationalist reasons for liking her, even if personally I cannot stand it, so would that skew the results by giving me some sort of "in" already?

the quiz it was linking to does not seem to be there anymore, but this seems it may be relevant to interpol research?

http://www.interpolnyc.com/forum//index.php?/topic/13492-which-interpol-member-are-you/?s=47f736291f10535635496816a845c13e

Aw, I'd love to read you doing this, emil.y! Ask Lex or someone what the most canonical Mariah Carey album is. I'm genuinely not saying this as a joke, I would actually like to see if you can come to terms with finding something on a musician's level to appreciate.

p.s. in interests of full disclosure, I do have to admit that I have, in the past couple of years (i.e. through running the School of Seven Bells Tumblr (with added extra TSM bits)) come into contact with the Interpol fanbase a great deal, because of the overlap between those bands. So I do actually already know a fuck of a lot about the band (stupidly too much for a band I don't even like) and come pre-primed with all the information about why I *should* like them. I just don't. So I do actually have an additional incentive to find something to like, and start liking them, so I can interact with the fanbase more enjoyably.

I should just order the album already off the link that Rob shot me. I am not going to find it in Poundland, even in Wales. ;-)

Rob, are you going to confirm or deny the guesses on your album?

SAW2 i reckon xp

― keiji cretins (NickB), Tuesday, January 28, 2014 10:39 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah that's what i was thinking.

I am deeply DEEPLY unamused by this.

http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/S/softcorejukebox/1069500678_quizCarlos.JPG

You're Carlos D. !!
Possibly the wild card of the band, Carlos enjoys his new wave music and frequently DJs at such sexy nightspots as BANG! Everyone loves Carlos for his killer style and ability to smoke, play badass bass, and wear sunglasses in a dark show all a

Do I have to have herpes now? I guess I am the bass player... FUCK THIS I QUIT THIS STUPID QUIZ.

It was SAW 85-92 actually. Good guesses. Sorry for delay - I disappeared into a signal-less zone called Asda. I will do the 22 plays on this LP then do "Close to the edge" afterwards.

The more I think about it, the more I think Carey would have to be my choice. I genuinely detest the sound of her voice, but I do feel a bit bad that I have nothing nice to say about it - though maybe this is just the weight of critical consensus telling me I should feel bad about it? Maybe I will never like it? But... she first impinged on my consciousness at a point where I was distinguishing my taste and she was an avatar of the mainstream (although I always liked to think I wasn't that affected by this, I probably was to a certain degree, still was more of a pop fan than a lot of my peers, though) - so attempting to move past the historical extra-musical connotations into a judgement based solely on music would be interesting.

I'm not going to commit to this yet. But maybe post-album poll. Maybe.

I'm not going to do this challenge, but I'm trying to think of what I would pick if I were to. It would have to be something that was critically or commercially acclaimed but also I have no necessary interest in or attraction to.

I don't want to force it on you, emil.y, but if you did do it, I'd be really, really pleased and interested to read your thoughts.

that's exactly how I got into Talking Heads ('Fear of Music' to be precise) some years ago.

Poundland does seem to be a place where you can buy the cream of shit music from ten years ago.

indeed.

move over mr fopp, there is a new player in your broken town.

I have ended up buying it off this Welsh mail-order place that Rob recommended. It feels like cheating.

(But maybe it will have mysterious Welsh stamps on it. Or something.)

Despite skepticism I would totally participate in this. Somebody recommend me something? I have continued to listen to Bruckner symphonies, Of Montreal albums and Morrissey solo records to allay my hatred (successfully allayed with Morrissey solo records). Maybe Oasis, omg

Oh god no, O! Do not listen to Oasis on account of this thread. I forbid it! There is a limit!

begs the q does repetition mean cumulative understanding or actually taking millions of goes to hear it once properly

thought this rtc point was quite crucial. repeated listens can mean so many different things. like, are you bludgeoning yourself with it regardless of what you feel like, are you coming back to it over and over again when you feel receptive to it, are you constantly encountering it naturally...

Think it's pretty obvious from thread title, etc that this particular experiment is just about sheer bludgeoning volume. I certainly have albums that I don't "get" and come back to in different moods & contexts in the hopes that something will have changed. But that's not the point of this thread - what I am trying to see is seeing if knowing every single note/lyric can teach me to appreciate an album the way that immersive experiences help you to learn a language.

OK, no Oasis (thanks). I didn't respond to your post upthread btw but I absolutely listen to music-for-leisure with the same part of my brain as I listen to for-work, and in my appreciation process, the possibility of change (as you might've noticed) continues to apply to finished product, as I tend to respond to bad tracks prescriptively instead of viscerally? or something? I actively EQ tracks when I'm DJing :(

do you turn cut the bass, slowly rolly your head back, extend a hand in the air, wait for the that perfect moment and then DOOF-DOOF-DOOF-DOOF? I try to that that at least 6 times per set.

I have to NOT do that or it destroys the pleasure of listening to music, for me. (Though, oddly, doing session work never impinged on my enjoyment of music in the way that trying to do music journalism did. I think because I was able to compartmentalise session work down to just "basslines and ba ba bahs" in isolation. Maybe if I'd been concentrating more on the whole thing, as was necessary with music crit, I'd have compromised the same part of the brain.)

Any ideas what you'd do instead of Oasis? Or would that involve having to think about / admit in public what artists you don't like?

Actually that does make me wonder, because to this day, the one thing I cannot tolerate in music is shitty basslines.

Honestly I can't think of anybody. Much-loved artists that I hate on an aesthetic level are precisely the ones I spend the most time trying to get my head around, either to "see the light" or at least form a logical basis for any taste-divergence.

Though as soon as you said "shitty basslines" I realized I hate the Sex Pistols

OK, listen to Never Mind The Bollocks, then, because I don't actually think that album has shitty basslines. (Mostly because none of the bass on that record is by Sid.)

(I am wondering if my bassline nazi-ism is contributing to my inability to like Indiepol. Or if I am conflating "hatred of the bass player" with "hatred of the basslines." The other thing that may happen is after 22 listens, I end up getting that haircut after all.)

Done.

Yay!

but the actual music on that first Interpol record is actually alright imo. You're fairly well disposed to stuff like the Bunnymen, the Psychedelic Furs and New Order right? I think as long as you can deal with them aping those bands you'll be halfway there, but the biggest barriers to enjoyment are the terrible vocals and lyrics.

I have since revisited this record and although it definitely has its moments, jfc it does go on a bit and I ended up basically wanting to strangle it. Anyhow, good luck Branwell B! Look forward to reading yr reactions to it.

OK, thanks for the heads up. Will let you know when the postperson brings it.

(Though if by Listen 15, my reactions are something like "God I hate this fucking record SOOOO MUUUUCH, (but I really kinda want to shag them anyway right now)" I will probably FP'd off the board.)

Anyone else up for this? Or thinking what record you would do if you were up for this?

I suppose there are two ways of approaching this:
(1) select a recognised classic in a genre you don't have any feel / fondness for; for me that's probably be some kind of rock / metal and I'd likely end up with "Back In Black" or something.
(2) think of an artist I don't like in a genre I know and like, at least in part. For example I've always hated Neil Young (largely due to his voice) but I like plenty of country rock; similarly I've hate hate hated the Pixies since day 1, but I understand their world well enough.

Either way, I'm pretty sure I'm not up for the challenge! I do try to provoke myself to listen to things outside my obvious listening habits reasonably often, but I struggle to find the time to listen to everything I really want to hear, I don't think I can justify the hours spent on something I don't fancy.

Do still think it's interesting though.

Neil Young was someone I eventually managed to push through my dislike of - because I loved covers of his songs by other artists so much! It was his voice I hated so much. And it was actually T.Yorke talking in outtakes from the NY documentary about what he appreciated, and how NY had "influenced" him, talking about frailty & vulnerability - and I suddenly saw the some of the things I admired so much about TY's voice were things he'd cribbed fron NY. So I went back & listened with those ears, and suddenly it clicked & I got it & understood why so many ppl rated him.

Is "cover versions" a contextualisation, or a "recommendation from someone you trust"?

I have just realised... if I *really* had the courage of my convictions to do this with something I really LOOOOOAAAATHED (as opposed to merely being mystified or perplexed or nonplussed) I would attempt this experiment with Red Hot Chilli Peppers.

Except the thought of listening to RHCP for a week straight fills me with the kind of horror that I would consider self harm to avoid it.

And interrogating this kind of hatred, it's not just disliking the music, though *REALLY* disliking the music is a huge part of it - it's years and years of layered associations of "bad times during which this music was inescapable" and also "total assholes who loved/repped this music" and "the dancefloor at the local goth/punk/80sindustrial nightclub getting swamped with aggressive assholes who liked to physically stomp on kids they read as queer every time their songs came on" <- and it's all those associations that, even if I did force myself to appreciate the music, would never ever shift.

One of the first bands I ever rang up for an audition, when I was, like 17/18... this is an experience that has stuck with me all these years, is how deeply written it is in my psyche. The guy on the other end of the phone followed up "well, actually we're looking for a bass player more like... Flea" in about 30 seconds with "we would never ever even *consider* having a girl in our band" and this association of the kind of people who liked RHCP - that kind of considered hatred not just of their music but everything they, and their fandom, stands for, is never going to be shifted by anything short of a total memory core dump.

I guess that's kinda made me consider NV's posts in a different light. There is no universe in which I would *ever* become "the kind of person who liked RHCP" no matter what.

Daniel Kessler was The Cute One, fwiw

xp

well it's a pickle, certainly

Daniel Kessler is also my A+ number one "would bang" Interpolster (that isn't Brandon, obviously).

For once, we are in agreement. That boy is damn cute.