Image Bands and their Discontents

is there a distinction between "image band" and its japanese connotation? this is the first time i've heard it used in a western context.

I don't know enough about Visual Kei to even begin to answer that question! But I would LOVE if anyone with any knowledge of the Japanese scene addressed it?

i have no idea if this has been discussed upthread or not but my friend who lived in japan is really into this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takarazuka_Revue

^^^ wow, that's amazing! Just looking at the productions they've adapted: Books (Zorro), musicals (Guys and Dolls), films (JFK... wait, what?!)

I know the sharp drop-off of posting on this thread probably had more to do with NV going home than anything else, but still, I did suspect that the thread was probably going to die when it went over to American hours, haha.

Because despite that reference to "image band" and its Japanese connotations, the (not counter) examples in this thread are overwhelmingly British (well, European, since Germany has made several appearances, and jeez, you have only to watch Eurovision to think about image and presentation in pop music!) artists. And talk is about American and Australian *resistance* to Image Bands, in which the exceptions prove the rule?

Are "Image Bands" just a decadent European thing? (In which case, where do Prince and the White Stripes and Marilyn Manson come from?) Or is it that thing that someone brought up above (sorry, I've forgotten who), about "bands that look like they are from 1964" that American culture is so overwhelming seen as default that anything that looks even slightly "British" or "German" or whatever, is seen as "An Image"?

(I don't think the latter is true at all, FWIW, I think that there is some odd quirk of both British and Japanese cultures which actively encourages Image-Making, though I am not awake enough to work out what it is. Anyone? Noodle?)

there's a wealth of historical literature wherein commentators identify "the English" as being peculiarly addicted to novelty btw

sorta trying to find some examples here but gd work etc

Adam and the Ants were prob the first band I was ever really interested in when I was a pre-teen. The image thing was probably what drew me in and I remember the Stand and Deliver video being the first MV that I ever really noticed. I didn't know that they'd ever started as a punk thing. I didn't have any clue what they were.

It strikes me that most of the obvious US examples (at least within rock) are bands whose image was kind of cartoonish/trashy/'lowbrow', like they intentionally set out to define themselves against bands who made Serious Art - thinking of people like KISS, the Ramones, New York Dolls, The Cramps.

Are "Image Bands" just a decadent European thing?

nope.

http://originalmattress.co/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/ThePolyphonicSpree_V_large-1.jpg

you could even say with their normal robe attire that this lot are an 'image' band.

plus devo, the b-52's, the locust, alice cooper, blue oyster cult, the white stripes, motley crue, slayer, etc. but "image band" isn't limited to white guy rock music, is it? thinking of james brown's crews, natty jazz tailoring, prince, p-funk, public enemy's stage show & dress, TLC, bikini kill, the runaways, abba, fleetwood mac, etc.

sunnO))) (lol, but only kinda)

female or female-fronted punk bands too: Siouxsie Soux, The Slits, X-Ray Spex etc.

blondie, the cars, the go-go's, talking heads - lotta 80s bands, really

err, 70s/80s...

new wave in general

female or female-fronted punk bands too: Siouxsie Soux, The Slits, X-Ray Spex etc.

― Kim Wrong-un (Neil S), Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:53 AM

Wait, wait, what is this in response to? Because all of these bands were British!

And also, were Siouxsie and the Banshees really more of an image band than The Cure? Were The Slits more of an image band than the Sex Pistols? Really? I don't get what you're trying to say here.

hah sorry got the wrong end of the stick, just listing some women fronted punk bands I guess, following up contenderizer! I suppose they are interesting insofar as they set the aesthetic agenda so far as punk was concerned, along with Malcolm McLaren of course.

But yeah... agree, Contendo with both the first post that US bands tended towards image as a reaction *against* SRS ART (while UK bands posited the image AS "srs art")

Oh wait, now I see what that was an answer to: but "image band" isn't limited to white guy rock music, is it? <- OK, the Siouxsie/Slits stuff makes sense now. Sure! Yeah!

punk without Siouxsie would arguably have been the much more functional "long grey coat" look of lots of the Manchester bands, though that of course is an image of "we are the young men, the weight on our shoulders"

"projecting an image of..." above

Feel like there's a lot that could be said about "natty dressing" in Black music whether that's jazz dudes in suits, or the deliberate ostentatious competitive dressing of hiphop acts and "GucciGucciGucci" but that's a HUGE massive blind spot for me, because jesus christ, how have I got this far into this thread without bringing up Parliment/Funkadelic. Who are one of the most image image bands of all time, but I didn't think of them as an "image band", I just thought of them as aliens from the planet Funk?

Wow, that was a seriously bad omission on my part and a blind spot I have to acknowledge.

pfunk was a whole package not just limited to image.

Death Metal band in corpse paint

wait did no one point out something here? (i think you mean Black Metal)

http://www.thenation.com/article/p-funk-politics

trying to find an article with Clinton's involvement with that crazy sect that I momentarily have forgotten the name of.

but before i say anything else

SUN RA

Process Church of the Final Judgement is what I was thinking of re Clinton

the process church of the final judgment

dagnit

such a creepy name, even just "the process church"

like something grant morrisson would come up with

teaching mark s a *LESSON* response three: FUNKADELIC

read that for a further explanation of clinton and Process Church of the Final Judgement

Should note btw that Clinton was never actually a part of that sect though he did use quotes for the early album sleevenotes

yay! This is the best *BURSTS ONTO THREAD LIKE KOOL AID MAN* entrance ever.

I'm going to come back and read the links, but in the shower, I was thinking through this, about P-Funk, but mostly about this whole thread of "glam" that had nothing at all to do with Bowie/Roxy (or did it? I don't know. Afrika Bambaataa being influenced by Kraftwerk, it's not impossible) and wondering where it came from - Afro-Futurism, Sun-Ra, what?

And realising how my "blind spot" is just another example of white privilege, like, when I see a white Britishes band dressing up, I assume that's about Art and Image, but when I see an African-American band dressing up, I think that "Bling" is about class and race positioning, but it can't be an aesthetic decision, too? That's capital B Bullshit, BB.

Sun Ra, Sly Stone, Hendrix amongst other things yeah. Clinton was a hairdresser and a very well read man so he was up to date on fashion and could combine it with his other knowledge and developed something really amazing.

ps got no idea what kool aid man is!

oh an um yeah lots and lots of acid

(Kool aid man:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7666/1099409-koolaidman.jpg

I feel like such a weird sometimes that I get both Kool Aid Man jokes and Beano jokes :-/)

the motherpage is gone but it appears to be available here
http://archive.is/nFt0

xp. see i'd get beano jokes!

Discussing "Image Bands" without Hendrix = ???????? but then again, Hendrix had to go to the UK for his thing to take off so, like, hmmmm.

The English consuming cartoons of other cultures, too.

which leads to the pfunk pedro bell cartoons!

FWIW, I think that there is some odd quirk of both British and Japanese cultures which actively encourages Image-Making, though I am not awake enough to work out what it is.

England-wise it feels like a long & deep social tradition to me - 1660s (at least) afaik - the image-provocateur has one of those liminal relationships to authority & the establishment - a figure of fun but also close to seats of social & political power (since they're often mates with the King or regent or whoever) - often an arriviste - & reaching one ultra-self-conscious & intellectual terminus (=starting point for the 20th too) with Wilde. The cause… something to do with the rigidity and complexity of British class-coding (& signalling) making that a playground for the imaginative self-maker? I dunno, that feels a bit a simplistic, turning things to class. Early development of the press in London? The theatre may come into it.

(I know nothing about Japanese culture, so I'll ignore that bit of the q)

that is a fucked up kool-aid man. normal kool-aid man does not involve corpse rubble. he is just a normal guy on packet beverage.

http://84d1f3.medialib.glogster.com/media/1d/1db0b92e8e29ad2b87fde09bdd0fe3cb565d867cfee9d0c2595ccb0f9ec7fa50/kool-aid-man.png

he does belong to the weird category of food being offering itself to be enjoyed by man

Kool-aid man bursts through walls! This is what Kool-aid man does! This was one of the most distressing aspects of American children's television in the late 70s/early 80s, when I first moved to the US. Like, I could just be at some normal kids' party and someone would just say "Hey, Kool aid!" and then this terrifying creature would burst through a wall. American was a TERRIFYING place to a 9 year old Brit.

(Sorry - thank you, Woof, that is an excellent post and something I'd love to dig deeper into.)

Back to previous subject, like, I should have been thinking of this - I was re-watching Dreamgirls recently, and although I assumed it had been brushed up for Broadway/Hollywood, the whole manufacturing of Image, and toning down of Image, was so centrally placed at the *heart* of that narrative. Both in the flamboyant Little Richard/James Brown character, and in the Supremes characters.

it's true, wall-bursting was totally his thing, though he seemed pretty careful abt bursting through in a manner that wouldn't squash babies or w/e, at least not on camera. along with the hawaiian punch guy (who lived only to sock people in the face and may actually have been named "hawaiian punch"), it was a dark time for powdered children's beverages.

as well as discussing what in certain cultures encourages self-as-image play, we might look at it from the other direction. what is it about american culture that sometimes seems to discourage (or at least constrain) that sort of thing? residual puritanism? homophobia?

without wishhing further derailment here's an awesome Peter Bagge Kool-Aid Man comic: http://www.againwiththecomics.com/2008/07/alan-moore-peter-bagge-and-kool-aid-man.html

oh shit it's Alan Moore too, I never realised that!

Think it's p obvious why White American culture doesn't do it. The horror of being scene as effeminate, the policing of masculinity. But also the terror that dressing up, being a Dandy is fey and foppish and European and contrary to the Frontier Mythos. In the 20th Century, fear of Black culture, fear of the Other.

The connection of English + theatre is an interesting one. Because of the whole "women not allowed onstage" thing, there was a longstanding tradition of men dressing as women without it reading as a *homosexual* thing to be doing. Plus, the origins of British Theatre - spent last semester reading Cornish passion plays, which are some of the last surviving remnants of Cornish (late Medieval) and there is some *fantastical* stuff in there, about appearances being deceptive (never trust The English), world turned upside down, men as women, women as men stuff in there.

Think it's p obvious why White American culture doesn't do it.

why is say New York different to the rest of the USA then?

But also the terror that dressing up, being a Dandy is fey and foppish and European

pretty funny when so many like to boast of their euro roots!

Though I guess Scots/Irish tend to be very non-dandy so its acceptable to them.

every bands that make music videos presents an image. moneyfornothing.mp3 and when i am interested in a song i often care what the band looks like , mainly for the singer's visual performance, their "acting", because some emotions invested in the song may not come across strictly in audio, or differently than i imagined. many artists say that it doesn't really matter what the song is about, the fans can make it theirs and invest the meaning they want into it, or variations of this, and i am fine with this, but i also like to see how some lyrics are delivered to have a better understanding of the meaning / complexity of the emotion/humour/and what not.