RIP odesses― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 17:21 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 17:21 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Ah, I see!
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Friday, 28 August 2015 20:48 (eight years ago) link
haha did not mean to imply that oddesses was a sock of mine (although I can see how our names might lend that impression), just that he appears to have left and not come back
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:02 (eight years ago) link
the answer you seek lies in the admin log
― slothroprhymes, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:03 (eight years ago) link
If the Doors were a band today they'd be called DOOOOOOOORS and their logo would be a pizza. Prog.
― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:08 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, I actually don't mind The Doors, but I have to be in the correct mood to listen to them, if I'm not, then they do have a tendency to grate on me a bit... and yes, they were quite a huge influence on The Stranglers - Hugh Cornwell and Jean-Jacques Burnel in particular were huge fans, although interestingly the keyboard player much less so, he was more into British prog bands like Camel. The story goes is that when The Stranglers' keyboardist joined the band (he was the last person to join the "classic" line-up), he was coming up with all these Doors-like licks and Cornwell and Burnel were like "this guy is just like Ray Manzarek!" and the keyboardist, Dave Greenfield, asked "who is Ray Manzarek?" - Cornwell and Burnel liked this and were like "okay, it's by accident - even better!" ... Having said that, the approach they took on their cover of 'Walk On By' is definitely Doors-like, with the keyboard and guitar solos and the way it vamps on a couple of chords in the middle for a while quite like how 'Light My Fire' does.
It's undoubtedly going to sound sacrilegious to some, but if I had to choose between listening to a Stranglers record or a Doors record any time of day, any day of the week, I would definitely choose to listen to a Stranglers record, without a doubt.
The Andy Partridge quote about The Doors being "no fun" comes from an interview he did when he was trying to explain the difference between British psychedelia and American psychedelia, about how British psychedelia came across as being far more lighthearted (think stuff like the second side of Ogden's Nut Gone Flake, or Sgt. Pepper's), whereas the Americans approached psychedelia from a more serious angle. The American stuff was far more tense, whereas the British stuff was more "dropped some acid in the park and laughed as we ate a splendid cream bun" etc.
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Friday, 28 August 2015 21:11 (eight years ago) link
haha did not mean to imply that oddesses was a sock of mine (although I can see how our names might lend that impression), just that he appears to have left and not come back― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:02 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkthe answer you seek lies in the admin log― slothroprhymes, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:03 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:02 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― slothroprhymes, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:03 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Nah, don't worry, Οὖτις, I never thought that for a second... it was more that I saw your post, checked the admin log, and was like "ah, right!"
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Friday, 28 August 2015 21:14 (eight years ago) link
Partridge generally otm there imo
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:14 (eight years ago) link
ah now it is my turn to see
xp
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:15 (eight years ago) link
Billy Cobham was born in Panama so technically Mahavishnu where 20% American. \pedantry
― 29 facepalms, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:17 (eight years ago) link
Panama is not and never has been part of America\uberpedant
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:19 (eight years ago) link
I know. The violin dude was the only american, hence 20%
― 29 facepalms, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:30 (eight years ago) link
haha ah I get it my bad
― Οὖτις, Friday, 28 August 2015 21:31 (eight years ago) link
& he was in a San Francisco band with proggish tendencies too innit?
― Stevolende, Friday, 28 August 2015 22:25 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9Wh1iXIxA
― rushomancy, Friday, 28 August 2015 22:32 (eight years ago) link
Thanks for the Yezda Urfa clip, that sounds amazing.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 29 August 2015 11:38 (eight years ago) link
glad you like it. they're a hidden gem -- some of the most complex 'rock' music i've ever heard
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 29 August 2015 13:56 (eight years ago) link
craziest song by yezda urfa is this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKK8kdDVMag
but it also reveals problems with the notion of american "prog" as a genre. there's very little that can be called "prog" during the peak years of the british movement from '69-'74. what shows up is later, mid-late '70s, and is either horribly obscure (yezda urfa, graced lightning, random) or, you know, kansas. kansas are actually one of the more interesting examples here, as the "kansas ii" lineup, aka proto-kaw, was operating during the prime uk prog period, and was doing extremely far-out vdgg-influenced material like "totus nemesis", containing a long section best described as noise (it's on cuneiform, so i can't link you to something to listen to).
now, in the late '70s, you had stuff in the dc area like "happy the man" (not actually named after genesis), "the muffins", which were more avant-garde and slightly more popular than graced lightning or tommy marolda's private press prog lp (which is so obscure that i still haven't heard it, although it's doing the cd-r circuit), and it's this sort of music that feeds directly into the us avant-prog scene which has existed continuously since then, but as far as what is known as "symphonic" during prog's prime years, there's just not much american stuff to speak of. late '70s dc-area prog does have a precedent in the earlier baltimore group "oho":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEWQYmanG3M
but again, we're dealing with a band which was deeply obscure and which nobody heard at the time, and again we're clearly dealing with something, like yezda urfa, which is derivative of first-wave UK prog.
― rushomancy, Saturday, 29 August 2015 14:30 (eight years ago) link
as for the doors, if they're prog than jim morrison is america's greg lake.
by the way, i forgot to mention one of my favorite us prog bands, jasper wrath. the stuff they did after their first album (some of which came out on tax scam labels under pseudonyms like "zoldar & clark") is better than their first album material, which is very much in the "proto-prog" vein, but they're still near the top of the heap as far as us prog goes.
― rushomancy, Saturday, 29 August 2015 14:33 (eight years ago) link
there's also the first couple JOURNEY albums, and more obscure, CATHEDRAL, MITHRANDIR, and SHADOWFAX
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 29 August 2015 14:36 (eight years ago) link
I think elements of The Doors was 'progressive' in a 1967-69 sense before prog was really a more defined genre of rock. I'd say this even goes more for Love and Spirit. Love definitely went into using some Sgt. Pepper orchestral arrangements. Spirit had a legit jazz background and their albums have all sorts of vaguely spaghetti soundtrack style pieces. All three bands (The Doors, Spirit & Love) being from the same rock scene that birthed the Mothers of Invention. There was that few year period where bands often had very wide repertoires. They might do some heavy blues, maybe a couple of acoustic numbers. In the UK, I'd say similar groups would be Jethro Tull and Colosseum both of which had the heavy blues numbers but then had other tracks that would venture into acoustic folk and soundtrack jazz.
― earlnash, Saturday, 29 August 2015 17:07 (eight years ago) link
Oh yeah, I kinda think a 'prog' Stooges is Black Sabbath.
― earlnash, Saturday, 29 August 2015 17:08 (eight years ago) link
ban me from this site but i swear "GOOD VIBRATIONS" is a total proto-prog jam
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 29 August 2015 17:08 (eight years ago) link
You got to figure the Moody's were way into the Beach Boys.
― earlnash, Saturday, 29 August 2015 17:10 (eight years ago) link
You can stream a track from that Proto-Kaw album on Cuneiform's Bandcamp page:
http://cuneiformrecords.bandcamp.com/album/early-recordings-from-kansas-1971-1973
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Saturday, 29 August 2015 18:44 (eight years ago) link
the GRATEFUL DEAD are (at least sometimes) an american progressive band
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugRct9pNQYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN6mjNMNytY
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 30 August 2015 16:25 (eight years ago) link
so is deicide
― am0n, Sunday, 30 August 2015 18:41 (eight years ago) link
and SYMPHONY X
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 30 August 2015 19:37 (eight years ago) link
The Doors, one of the better LA 60s bands with a keyboard player. Better than The Music Machine; probably not as accomplished as The Association; not as rocking as The Seeds.
The Seeds - WEB OF SOUND - 1966
try:"Pictures and Designs""Tripmaker"
― Vic Perry, Sunday, 30 August 2015 21:11 (eight years ago) link
Prog Stooges = Magma?
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 30 August 2015 21:19 (eight years ago) link
1 (although "Talk Talk" by The Music Machine rivals anything by anybody, and "Eagle Never Hunts The Fly" is ersatz to the max.)
2 (Talk Talk should have done a song called "The Music Machine". But they didn't.)
― Vic Perry, Sunday, 30 August 2015 21:21 (eight years ago) link
Prog Stooges = The Stooges
― Vic Perry, Sunday, 30 August 2015 21:23 (eight years ago) link
The Association didn't have a keyboard player.
― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Sunday, 30 August 2015 22:21 (eight years ago) link
The Doors aren't supposed to "rock"
― brimstead, Sunday, 30 August 2015 23:06 (eight years ago) link
Listing the 'better LA 60s bands with a keyboard player' and not mentioning Spirit?
― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Sunday, 30 August 2015 23:17 (eight years ago) link
The Doors weren't better than the Music Machine is some ways. They surely had more pretty moments overall, but they were together longer. The Music Machine did what they did better than anybody, which was turning garage rock into high musical drama with just note-perfect execution. Maybe they were the only band really shooting for this, but that was part of their genius. I think my favorite Music Machine songs are "Masculine Intuition" and "Double Yellow Line."
― timellison, Monday, 31 August 2015 01:39 (eight years ago) link
how fucking cool looking was jim morrison? it's fucking ridiculous is what it is, what a rock star
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 31 August 2015 01:47 (eight years ago) link
I don't mean to give the Doors any short shrift, by the way - just sticking up for the Music Machine. The Doors' accomplishments were sometimes super massive. I'm still a big time believer in the literary adventure of the pop musician, whatever my feelings might be about particulars in this Doors lyric or that. The spirit of the thing, literary seriousness - I am still a believer.
― timellison, Monday, 31 August 2015 03:04 (eight years ago) link
music machine were cool as hellgloves!
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 31 August 2015 03:11 (eight years ago) link
1 It's funny that you brought up Spirit, because I think they are 1) great and 2) arguably, the first American prog band (or maybe the first American jazz-rock band....def an underrated giant step forward!)
2 Association had a keyboard player, but it's true that keyboard is not up high in the mix, and not present on all songs either.
3 I enjoyed Sean B's rant against folkies that was reproduced on the Rhino Best of the Music Machine....and also the teen tv show where they lip synch Talk Talk at a zoo
― Vic Perry, Monday, 31 August 2015 15:23 (eight years ago) link
people who think jim was a hippie need to buy a clue.
easily top 10 american rock band.
― nicky lo-fi, Monday, 31 August 2015 15:27 (eight years ago) link
Not in the 60s they didn't.
― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Monday, 31 August 2015 17:02 (eight years ago) link
who thinks doors were hippie? they were way sleazy drunk death vibes
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 31 August 2015 17:04 (eight years ago) link
Manzarek sure talked a lot of hippie crap at times though
― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Monday, 31 August 2015 17:05 (eight years ago) link
... but after Jimbo died, I don't know if that's significant or not.
― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Monday, 31 August 2015 17:06 (eight years ago) link
no keyboards in the Association?.....well, very pleasant organ solo closing out "Never My Love." It's even on TV from 1968.
Also, the first notes on "Along Comes Mary" - that's an electric keyboard, right? On the Smothers Brothers appearance it's pretty clear that none of them standing there are playing those opening notes, then they get going.
There's a keyboard on the studio version of "Windy" too I think.
Hey, Spanky and Our Gang. Great hits, creepily calculated TV hippie appearance (see great song "Sunday Will Never Be the Same" as TV appearance for the awful truth). The other guys in the Doors would have looked like they were in one of those other hip/square bands. Kind of ironic that rock "star power" was in short supply in the (non-punk) Los Angeles bands in the 60s, they all look like they are uncomfortably inhabiting their clothes. Jim Morrison stands out as a huge exception of course.
― Vic Perry, Tuesday, 1 September 2015 14:58 (eight years ago) link
I said no keyboard player, I didn't say no keyboards. It's almost as if bands didn't always play the instruments on their records or something crazy like that.
― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Tuesday, 1 September 2015 16:42 (eight years ago) link
Dudes no one has ever gone as deep on the topic of whether or not the Association had a keyboard player
― Ma$e-en-scène (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 00:51 (eight years ago) link
which association keyboard player you talking about, they had two iirc
― balls, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 03:10 (eight years ago) link
The keyboards played themselves, tongues wagged - the explanation on the Smothers Brothers about being an "association" rather than a band had been taken as a joke - so later one guy had to sit there and pretend to play. The keyboards were the first to split when the hits dried up, emerging in Munich a few years later, and the rest is history.
― Vic Perry, Wednesday, 2 September 2015 15:59 (eight years ago) link
50 FOOT HOSE, the SILVER APPLES, and SUICIDE were solid american progressive bands of the DOORS school
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 2 September 2015 16:27 (eight years ago) link