ILM Artist Poll No. 77 · CAN · Voting Thread [Ends 07/24/16]

I can't get into any of their albums after Soon After Babaluma. There's one or two tracks per album and several moments I enjoy but they somehow sound more like a Can tribute band than the real thing.

Soon Over Babaluma*

Even in SOB a track like 'Come Sta La Lua' they sound like a more timid, domesticated band. Was Damo such a driving force to the band? He always seemed to me like the perfect fit but the weakest link in the band.

What sounds like 'Come Sta La Luna'? I wish more music did!

Oh I'm not sure what does just saying it sounds like a more timid band.

9 ballots one week to vote!

Not gonna argue that the band don't sound "more timid" on the post-Damo albums but there is lots of good music on them. I put off listening to those records for years because of their reputation but nowadays they are what I go to when I want to hear Can.

The intensity of something like "Father Cannot Yell" is not there anymore on the Virgin-era albums, but it's not there on Future Days either. They always had mellow songs.

my main issue with late 70s Can is that they stopped being a studio-centric, tape-edit jam band, and became just a regular jam band.

I'm not sure I agree. Surely, something like "Half Past One" is as tape-edit oriented as the early records, right? I think "I Want More" and "All Gates Open" and stuff on Rite Time might be as well.

"All Gates Open" is so good. That's Can for me as much as Monster Movie is.

I love All Gates Open, will definitely be near the top of my ballot. The chorus sounds like it was recorded in some kind of cosmic beer hall.

I don't mean every track is a jam track. I Want More is a straight up pop song! It's classic, but there way too many jams that don't really go anywhere on those later Can albums. All Gates Open is a great track (I voted for it), but pretty easily my favorite from that record. It also says something that my second favorite track is the Can Can thing (or Can Be). This isn't the otherworldly, beyond-genre music they were making on Tago Mago or Ege Bamyasi, it's basically Euro free-fusion, which *can* work when everyone is hitting (and probably when they made the right edit) -- or can be kind of nondescript and bland, which is how a lot of that era feels to me.

am I the only one that loves 'Augmmal to bits?

Xpost: they weren't particularly ahead of time and when they were it was accidentaly so. They were following trends in the 60's and they were still doing it in the 70's. Problem there is late 60's/early 70's were mindblowingly good and late 70s not so much. I guess we shouldn't blame Can for keeping up with the times but Western civilization.

"Father Cannot Yell" feels outside of time to me. Like a seven-minute long No New York track from 1969.

It seems Can's rep doesn't carry the same cachet with my friends who are into the more electronic side of krautrock, like Kraftwerk, Cluster (and to a lesser degree, Neu). Still, I think they were ahead of the curve in the early days, in the same way a band like Faust was -- mostly to do with how they constructed and produced music. In a totally different vein, they were ahead of the curve in emphasizing James Brown beats, and just by virtue of Jaki wanting to play like a machine, conceptually they're linked to Kraftwerk and Neu.

There was definitely something in the air, and Can were not only part of it, but (among its) leaders. However, I do think they became a bit one-of-many by the late 70s. Maybe that's related to Holger Czukay's lack of involvement.

am I the only one that loves 'Augmmal to bits?

― Mark G, Monday, July 18, 2016 4:04 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

If you mean Augmn, then no, because that song would be very high on my ballot if I somehow find enough time to vote on this thing

Also really like Peking O. I remember making my then 3 year old son laugh by doing my best imitating the vocals on that song.

Basically if I voted on this, my ballot would be almost exclusively Damo Suzuki tracks. I like some stuff both pre and post Suzuki, but he is such an important element to what appeals to me with this band that the rest of the stuff can't really reach the same level.

It seems Can's rep doesn't carry the same cachet with my friends who are into the more electronic side of krautrock, like Kraftwerk, Cluster (and to a lesser degree, Neu).

That's weird to me because, much as I love all those other bands, Can and Kraftwerk are the undisputed kings to me.

i always figured the reason their later studio albums sound so much less interesting is because they abandoned their earlier recording process of just recording everything to two-track and razor-blading it into "songs" and started messing around with, like, overdubs and stuff. especially since they started sounding even better live during this period.

That's pretty much what they admitted happened, well, Jaki did, and he is generally very unforgiving of the band's faults. Possibly Holger said the same, not sure.

I think they did overdubs all along. Maybe more in the later years, that could be.

Listening to "Mother Sky" now – I never had Soundtracks so didn't know this and always assumed it was a Mooney track. Really good stuff – some of Karoli's best early playing it seems.

Speaking of overdubs, there are definitely some in Mother Sky aka the best all-around Can song. In fact, I tried to recreate the drum part at ~4:30 with 2 live drummers. And it worked!

^^^ glad to see the love, probably in my top 5 as well, guitar work actually worthy of being called "searing" and yeah the rolling drums are great.

I really need some more of those recent vinyl remasters, I have a couple and they sound incredible

It would be cool to discuss some of Holger's more innovative tape editing examples. Not all of it is "Cutaway"-style stuff -- and I would agree that some of it is probably covered a bit with some overdubbing.

BTW, "Spray" is marching its way up my ballot. Wasn't even on the first iteration -- is approaching top 5 for me right now.

I love Mother Sky, sounds like if Roxy Music actually made the beginning part of "Mother of Pearl" into a full song. Of course, "Mother Sky" came three years before "Mother of Pearl"

>I think they did overdubs all along.

The main distinction is that up to Soon Over Babaluma, most of the tracks were played as a band and mixed live to stereo. Those tracks were further manipulated /overdubbed, EQ'd, varispeeded, layered (you can hear this a lot on Future Days), but their mixing options were limited, giving Czukay most of the control. From Landed onward, they had a 16-channel deck, allowing them to track and perfect their own parts in isolation, and giving the rest of the band more of a vote in the mixing stage. The sound got a lot smoother once Czukay started getting outvoted.

The best example is comparing Can's attempt at a single 'Hunters and Collectors' to what Czukay did with the same source jam for 'Oh Lord Give Us More Money'.

Wow, I had never noticed those were the same tracks! And while I think I am generally a bigger fan of Holger's jump cuts, I may actually prefer "Hunters and Collectors" in this instance.

my interests skew towards the edits. if solo tracks were allowed in poll, half of mine would have been Czukay 79-86 (would have thrown in Schmidt's 'Man On Fire' too)

Ha, yes. Is there a good interview with Holger on the subject of tape editing and mixing? I feel like I read one in Option magazine or something about 20 years ago but can't remember.

"Hunters and Collectors" is definitely in my ballot. The first sides of both "Landed" and "Flowmotion" are great, second sides not so good.

From Landed onward, they had a 16-channel deck, allowing them to track and perfect their own parts in isolation

We're still talking about overdubs, right? I assume so, given that we're still referring to the "source jam" for a track like "Hunters and Collectors." I'm still not sure that there's a significant distinction between the overdubs on Landed and the overdubs on Soundtracks, other than the fact that there might be more of them. Overdubs are seemingly, usually done in isolation.

BTW, to yank the conversation back for a moment, the live version of "Mushroom" on the 40th anniversary of Tago Mago is a revelation -- only about four minutes in does Jaki finally play one of his patented moebius strip beats. To that point, the song is comprised mostly of this sludgy, grinding drone, with Irmin playing atonal horror runs on the organ. Karoli seems to spend much of the song just standing in front of his feedbacking amp. And yet ... it's still "Mushroom." Pretty amazing.

UPDATE:

11 BALLOTS RECEIVED

67 SONGS VOTED FOR SO FAR

11 ALBUMS VOTED FOR SO FAR

Compared to the Stereolab poll - which had a massive song selection - Can is a band with few songs and albums no idea how to do the rollout. Top 40 songs and Top 8 albums?

12 ballots.

13 now!

Btw if you do not get a received confirmation email from me it means I didn't get it. Please check.

Damn, considering updating my vote to include this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRfI7P0R3ao

"Cutaway" surging up my ballot as well – everything I love about Can wrapped into a about 18 minutes: glorious studio texture, shifting rhythms, sneaky melodies and a healthy dose of whimsy. Probably Holger's finest moment in Can from a tape collage standpoint.

Incredible to think that this was 1969, tho I do wonder whether there was some overdubbing in the second or third part as Irmin's keyboards sound suspiciously like the string synths he was using around the time of Future Days and Babaluma.

Yeah, it's definitely not all from 1969, most of the first part sounds like it's from ca. 1974 - the sort of loping reggae bit and the whole section with sped up bass and string synths.

... maybe not the first part, I'm working from memory here.

The funny accordion part that leads off the track may date from an earlier period. I think my favorite bit tho is the conversation between Rene Tinner(?) and Michael Karoli about needing to tune to the ring modulator. When I first heard this as a 17 y/o, I can't overstate how formative this track was -- demonstrating to me how fragments of sound, melody and rhythm could not only be "music" per se but consistently interesting and engaging.

I think my favorite bit tho is the conversation between Rene Tinner(?) and Michael Karoli about needing to tune to the ring modulator.

I don't know, isn't that Malcolm Mooney and some slightly snotty Englishman?

What, I thought that was Irmin and Holger. Although it's funny that Holger would (have to) be told to tune the ring modulator to the track.

Talking of English ppl and Can, I once met Duncan Fallowell and almost immediately asked him about working w/ them, he said (in a bemused rather than annoyed way) "That's all people ever ask me about!!"

Pretty sure Mooney's not there -- I had always thought it was Irmin, but as I was listening to it this am it sounded like they were talking about tuning the guitar to the ring modulator. Either way, the conversation is hilarious -- and yes, whoever the Brit is is acting like he runs the place. I also love that Irmin/Karoli/Holger is having the whole conversation thru the ring modulator.

Trying to draft up a ballot tonight, and apart from like five stone cold classics, I'm finding it very hard to single out songs and rank them, taking them out of their album context. As in: extremely hard. I've noticed I tend to 'see' Can's music in movements, parts of albums not necessarily defined by single tracks or side A or B. I warm most to how Babaluma crosses over from Splash into Chain Reaction, parts of songs like 'Mary' or 'Aughm'. Making voting in this really, really hard. As I don't break down Can's music in separate tracks per se. A Wonderful challenge nonetheless, but this poll made me realise this like nothing before.

this is so fuckin difficult

kinda want to put all of babaluma and future days on my ballot