The Rolling Stones - Blue & Lonesome

Yeah. Wasn't Brian Jones the only blues enthusiast?

loathe to contradict sinker here but... how does something pre-Wood like their godawful cover of "You Got the Blues" figure into that calculus?

xp

er sorry I mean "I Got the Blues"

Hi guys, do you happen to know where I can locate some critical dialogue about the notion of authenticity? Perhaps there is some kind of message board somewhere where this kind of discussion takes place, maybe even a theory with a catchy name to challenge such notions.

or Jagger's embarrassing James Brown impression on the T.A.M.I. show

idk I have a real love/hate relationship with these guys, they veer from amazing to awful and lazy with rapidity and regularity throughout their career

xp

Go read Elijah Wood's Escaping The Delta. There's no such thing as "authentic" blues.

― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱)

i thought his chapter on the folk blues of Aragorn was pretty great

i'm p happy to drop the RWood element of the argument tbh -- i only brought him in bcz he was being quoted -- but i think this angle on them, at least as a self-approved explanation of who they were and what they were about, emerged more as the mid-70s revamp of themselves than what they were up to in the 60s (which was much more structured round jagger's provocative reflexivity abt performance)

^^^viz part of the energy (and oddity) of jagger's many impressions was he was hyper-aware of them *as* impressions, and worked this aspect quite hard

is the standard interpretation of the British R&B scene that birthed them being *deep* into that fetishization of black American music - that it was "legitimate", "authentic", REAL in a way that British music (whether it was pop or skiffle or jazz) was not - is that interpretation wrong? It's true that by '66 or so they're chasing other trends/patterns and have wide-ranging interests, but this "we love the REAL BLOOZE MAN" schtick seems deeply encoded in them from the beginning, resurfacing periodically in episodes like this current embarrassment.

first song off this on spotify sounds really good!

"I Got The Blues" was an original.

i don't think it's wrong of the scene as a whole no, but also i think there's quite a gap between e.g. purists like john mayall and clapton being a dick abt the yardbirds not playing "proper" music and quitting, and where the stones were pretty quickly taking it -- and yes, there's notoriously a tension within the group as to what they were really aiming for

ie charlie probably to this day thinks jazz is the only real music :)

i love 'i got the blues' tbh

sorry was mixing that up with "Love in Vain"

xp

(I actually like "Love in Vain" okay but "I Got the Blues" bleeeccchh)

xp he might have meant "You Gotta Move," "I Got the Blues" is more of an Otis Redding homage.

i love 'i got the blues' tbh

― nomar, Thursday, October 6, 2016

Jagger sure yells a lot

been listening to a lot of the that new mono stones box, esp the early albums and this new song wouldn't sound out of place on the first couple stones albums at all

lol never mind

xp - wow I might as well just read mark s
wouldn't say interpretation is wrong -- but it doesn't account for why the Stones are different than, say, the Yardbirds or John Mayall. The Stones clearly wanted to be (and were one of the chief architects of what it means to be) rock stars. Their love of blues notwithstanding, my idea of who they are doesn't really include a reverent adherence to making "authentic blues".

ah god sorry it's not "I Got the Blues" it's their cover of Mississippi Fred McDowell's "You Got to Move" that I originally meant. Sorry, don't mind me. I hate that song so much I deleted it from my music library so I had a bit of a misfire trying to recall it

xxp

What could be more adorable than a bunch of British teens in 1962-63 getting all wrapped up in the authenticity of the blues? This look back benefits from the added wrinkle of the participants now being more wizened and jaded than Howling Wolf et al. were when the Stones were trying to copy their songs.

lol yes thx JoeStork

xp

(I actually like "Love in Vain" okay but "I Got the Blues" bleeeccchh)

lol

jones was a big blues guy but it wasn't long before all he wanted to do was f around w/sitars & the master musicians of joujouka

i think it's pretty obvious to anyone who's actually listened to the stones at all that they weren't blues purists because of all the music they made that wasn't purist blues

has anyone else listened to "just your fool"? it sounds like it is in mono to me.

I never said they were purists!

also worth recalling there was a SUPER-FIERCE politicised folk faction operating on the london club scene in the early 60s, who were very aggressively arguing that the only music that wasn't totally tainted was the exact sound of yr own deep-historical local tradition complete with uncorrupted accent as of 100 years ago -- and jagger et all wd have been well aware they couldn't end-run this argument by performing electric version of music by black americans… aware bcz someone like ewan mccoll was very loudly telling them so in magazines they read

hence doing what they were doing had to be justified as a form of play-acting (whether or not they then recognised that black american music -- and all music -- was also about performance and technique and roles and working audiences etc) (which jagger certainly did by c.1967)

remember that jagger and jones especially engaged with arguments in the pages of music magazines -- they were alert to critical discourse and enjoyed taking part in it (keef somewhat less so i assume)

also of note is the live 1965: charlie is my darling live album also on spotify which i hadn't heard, it's pretty fun stuff, lots of crowd noise that may be fake (? though i guess these shows were p nuts) but i've really grown to love the tuff little bratty blues band that they were, never used to really rate anything earlier than the singles and then aftermath and on

the baby Stones records are some of their best

I didn't know about the mono box or Charlie is My Darling being on Spotify, my weekend is set

unsurprisingly the early albums esp sound way better in mono

i thought his chapter on the folk blues of Aragorn was pretty great

Ha, whoops. (I'm FB friends with Elijah Wald, which makes that typo even more embarrassing.)

The Stones were definitely more of a singles band prior to Aftermath, but what singles they were.

between the buttons really struck mono just blew me away when i listened the other day. Let It Bleed surprised - didn't expect a 1969 album to sound so much better in mono. Don't know why there's better separation,(is it in the mix? i dunno, but the difference is striking and makes some of my all-time fave albums sound more sublime

xxxpost

Definitely wanna hear the earliest stuff in mono, but isn't Let It Bleed a fold-down? Or was there a dedicated mono mix?

(not that a fold-down wouldn't sound great)

(and these mono dealies are all being released as standalones in 2017)

I think Beggar's Banquet and Let It Bleed are both fold-downs

The UK version of Between the Buttons is such an underrated collection of songs, IMO. It seems to be one of those albums where every track is a deep cut. The out of tune bass on 'She Smiled Sweetly' will always be irritating, and Jagger loathes the record, but I think the songwriting on it is great!

oops yah i forgot abt between the buttons, that uk remaster from about a decade or so ago is crewsh

"Jagger loathes the record" really? fucking nut. I love both the UK and US versions of that album.

this new song is great. been listening to the stones a lot all summer.

read this the other week re: LiT/mono:
No less a Stones vinyl collector extraordinaire than John Rutherford has always insisted the mono Let It Bleed is dedicated, and he calls it sublime.
taken from :
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/rolling-stones-in-mono.117377/

xpost:

Yeah, really! He even described the album as "more or less rubbish" at one point.

oooh a hoffman board mono debate!! nice

Satanic Majesties was the last Rolling Stones LP to be released in mono in the US, so "Through The Past Darkly", "Beggar's Banquet", and "Let It Bleed" can only be found in mono on UK pressings. There may have been mono pressings of those three titles in Brazil or Indonesia (for example), but they were very likely fold-downs of the stereo masters.

yeah that's the good hoffman stuff right thurr

Jagger in 1995:

rank Zappa used to say he really liked it. It's a good record, but it was unfortunately rather spoiled. We recorded it in London on 4-track machines. We bounced it back to do overdubs so many times, we lost the sound of a lot of it... Connection is really nice... My Obsession, that's a good one. They sounded so great, but then, later on, I was really disappointed with it. Isn't Ruby Tuesday on there or something? I don't think the rest of the songs are that brilliant... I don't think I thought they were very good at the time, either.

btw this is a good way to spend a slow hurricane day: http://www.timeisonourside.com/track67-72.html

Isn't Ruby Tuesday on there or something?

top quality critical analysis here :D

classic Jagger

It's not on the UK version!

Must have been a bit of a headache for touring acts in the '60s to remember what was released in each territory.

"Ruby Tuesday" is on the new Colvin and Earle record which some of us have been listening to.

i don't care how white the stones are, they're wizened enough to play the blues

seems like something Andy Partridge would be up for (although not ideally suited for either)

challenge people to write hit stones songs. but no guest appearances. and that goes double for jack white.

for a sec I thought you were suggesting Andy Partridge produce the Stones.

her satanic majesty's request II!

would love to hear a courtney barnett song for keith to sing. it would have to be less wordy than her own songs though...he might get confused.

Spoon has written a few.

yeah Partridge could obviously nail the psych-period stuff (something I'm sure Keith and Mick are super-eager to revisit lol)

xp

this should be the title track of their next album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSdkrzqI8m0

alejandro escovido could do a good job he could prolly use the dough

Always wanted to hear Jagger sing "Castanets".

escovedo has a decent cover of 'evening gown' from jagger's 'wandering spirit' album on a bloodshot record comp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVZjtQF7OIg

that 'fancy man blues' has the sound of an early '90s alligator/telarc blues album.

I love the Muddy/Howlin Wolf/Bo Diddley's Chess stuff (ok and the Staples too, but they're kinda different/gospel) but that's about it.

― Οὖτις, Monday, December 5, 2016 10:39 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Have you tried the Otis Rush Cobra label stuff? Dude was a beast on the guitar. Also, have you checked out the Junior Wells/Buddy Guy records (Hoodoo Man Blues etc.)? Much to dig there as well.

JB Hutto & the Hawks are dope

Slim Harpo isn't really from Chicago (iirc) but feels like it

magic sam
little walter
jimmy dawkins

Hound Dog Taylor, Magic Sam and Luther Allison all made some real fine music too.

ooh yeah I dig Hound Dog Taylor

this is a good album

^^

this album tbqf has the best aspects of the chicago blues sound, it's a lot better than i thought it would be.

Yeah it's pretty raw
Would be cool if this was a jumping off point to a cool album of originals like Dylan's folk cover albums did but doubt it

Hoodoo Man Blues

everyone should listen to this album

they should do the album of funny beatles covers next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs6Qzfm1bJM

nothing beats the guitar solo in the original though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJCkbbMnEPg

That record is still insane!

I don't care much for Chicago blues.

There's some shit you just don't say in public.

― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱)

ts: expressing disapproval for chicago blues vs. expressing disapproval for chicago pizza

I haven't heard this record yet but at this stage I'm more bothered by how enthusiastic they sound on record rather than how "authentic" these covers are meant to be.

? You don't like it that they are enthusiastic?

There were some tracks I wanted them to cover that weren't on Spotify, but...

https://open.spotify.com/user/bendybendy/playlist/4ruR5qnI2ewAPw4HxxLGiv

xpost:

No, I mean that I prefer it when the Stones sound enthusiastic, which I appreciate must be hard to do if you're on your 1,534th album... if they sound excited, the track sounds exciting. If they sound like they're going through the motions, you can pick up on it right away. I guess that's why it used to take 'em so long to make records at one point... trying to get that great take where the band is firing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNRKTFCA7c0

I'm going to that Exhibitionism thing after Christmas. Anyone seen it?

Nah, but I did listen to Tattoo You last night and 'Slave' has developed into one of my favourite Stones grooves.

https://greilmarcus.net/2016/12/20/real-life-rock-top-10-122016/

never thought I'd type this but Greil Marcus 100% OTM

i gave up on this album after listening one minute to the first song. there is about as much blues feeling in this as in a techno track.

xxxpost - turrican that makes sense misinterpreted your post

but yeah this is the first they sound like an actual band in forever