Velvet Underground: Live 1969 vs. Grateful Dead: Live/Dead

Need to revisit Quine Tapes after this, it's been a long time

This Sister Ray is astonishingly good

oh it's 36 mins long? this is the stuff, fam

yeah I registered to the whole set recently and it totally ruled

the long slow "Waiting For My Man" is A++ as well

"re-listened" jeez

how is this even a question?

(xp) Those are both on "Live at the Matrix" where they don't sound like shit though? I think?

They sure sound good (thru my headphones) on this Complete Matrix Tapes set(?)

live at the matrix sounds great!

the long version of what goes on is so so good

tom

(xxp) Oh I thought you were talking about the Quine Tapes recordings?

no, sorry, Matrix Tapes

(huh - there is a weird edit at the very end of Sister Ray, where suddenly the audio quality does drop significantly?)

The tape had run out and the guy recrding it had to swap to a new reel - what you're listening to in the gap actually is the Quine Tapes version that's been spliced in to fill the gap.

The 36 minute "Sister Ray" is great even though Lou takes an 11 minute solo which mostly consists of twanging the lowest notes on his guitar like a monomaniacal Duane Eddy.

Thx for the info! (yeah, if that's what the Quine Tapes sound like, I can see why they're not... preferred)

Some people seem to prefer them!

A lot of the Quine Tapes are from different venues (I think?) and it has some tracks which were missing from the Matrix Tapes which, in an ideal world, should have been on there - like a long "Ride Into the Sun", iirc?

i kind of love that sister ray edit, it's like you're losing your mind during this epic skronk fest and have to go out for a smoke at the 33 minute mark. but then you go back in to see how long they can keep it going.

yeah there's tons of stuff on the Quine Tapes that isn't on Complete Matrix, like the 17-minute "Follow The Leader" and two more "Sister Ray"s

sure the sound ain't great but the performances are fire

I actually forgot that the 36-minute Sister Ray was the same

xxp ha ha, yeah, that's a great analogy

theres an 11-minute version of New Age on the Quine Tapes that I dont think is on the Matrix set thats one of my favorite VU things ever.

I still remember buying the Quine set when it came out and the clerk scoffing at the combined total of 90 minutes of Sister Ray across 3 discs, "jeez, how much Sister Ray do you really need?" A lot, buddy. A LOT.

never enough

also Tyler otm about the "smoke break" effect of the edit

Amen to both those!
Here's what I said about The Complete Matrix Tapes in P&J ballot comments---I felt bad afterwards about not Top Tenning it, but only got that many places in the lifeboat:
VU's complete Matrix Tapes: although I'd heard some of it before on the Live 1969 mid-70s twofer (and yet more had been on The Quine Tapes [although TCMP sounds better ] and wildly deluxe editions studio etc., so it's not on this year's P&J ballot) was immediately astounded by entering the bluestopia of an epic, post(?)-doowop slow groove "Waiting For My Man." Plus, the most beautifullest "I'm Set Free" imaginable, so far ("What in the wor-rld/Is/Happening to me-e," and I'm rising, swooning). Margarita is waiting so patiently, stoically---"Between though and expression/Lies a lifetime"---'til she sees in Tom a suitable case, a suitable candidate----maybe "just" Mr. Right Enough, but her standards are...high. It's as uneven/predictable at times as a three-night club sojourn far from home is likely to be, with moody Lou as punk priest/tour guide, sometimes taking us from ritual invocation and philosophical testes cases to routine--- but the brittleness of some performances (the strongest of these "Pale Blue Eyes," especially) blends with the wariness of themes, implicit and explicit conundrums: how and why and when and etc. should you could he stick strictly with the pleasure principle, and guard it hard (leisure becomes a full-time job, depending on patterns of floatation; then again these can find "a wealth in confusion!")----keeping it all to and for yourself/trust another person, considering that they that anybody could be just as weird as you, given what you know about personhood. (While bouncing off Dylan's contemporaneous "Someone thinks that they have found you!") Also, no matter how incredible thee ongoing seemed last night about this same time or tyme (onstage, for instance) tonight and tomorrow are just some other times, exciting or not---and "Lisa Says" has nothing beyond cuteness to add to this inquiry, and "Ocean" once again seems too conceptual---"I never get things done," okay, but beating your head against the waves doesn't have too much impact here, and time and tide and wet sand all seem too vaguely implied, if even that, at such length, for instance--maybe it's a test: can we strike wet matches, abstaining from all the usual signifiers? But even such frustrations pull me into the club, the extended stay vacay, and oooweee (and finally all in stereo, so even on so-so headphones, even familiar tracks can be revelatory),
(PS: maybe it comes down to: Do not attempt listening to the whole thing in one session--but it's so hard to stop. Also, listening again to the slow "Waiting For My Man," I'm remembering the old expression "getting straight," and maybe that's what the narrator is looking for expecting here, no big whoop, just as solo Lou happily chattered about in an interview," ...drugs that don't getcha hight, they just getcha normal, even." Got any?)

to be clear regarding the OP, I am saying:

Quine Tapes >> Live 1969 > Live/Dead > Matrix Tapes

ofc they are all extremely awesome, this is like comparing a $175 bottle of wine to a $200 bottle

the Dallas tracks on Live 1969 make it slightly better for me, even though the sound quality of the Matrix is obv astonishing

The only "Ocean" I like is from the Loaded sessions, I think---anyway, I heard it on Peel Slowly and See.

yeah that's a good one, I also like the VU and Live 1969 versions, it's just such a great song. as usual with my VU preferences, the longer the better

The Loaded "Ocean" is fantastic and how the fuck did it not make the album and "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" did...

My copy of the The Quine Tapes is a promo – I think I wrote something up on it, but the reviews editor (B1lly Altm4n) gently declined to publish it (to his credit... I surely wasn't up to the task).

xxpost That "Ocean" in/"Cowboy" out change will be made on my Loaded: Baked Potato playlist.
xxxpost Yeah, sleeve's right: if you need one, you need 'em all.
Xgau agreed, said:

Bootleg Series: Volume 1: The Quine Tapes [Polydor, 2001]
I was cynical too, especially once I'd ascertained that the audio on these three discs was as faint as I'd feared. Played loud, though, the sound improves--not quite crisp or bright, but there. Note that this trick doesn't work with *Live at Max's Kansas City and ask yourself if you wouldn't maybe like to hear the number three band of the '60s, after the Beatles and James Brown and His Famous Flames, without wearing out its tiny catalogue. No new songs, true. But over the two hours that aren't devoted to three long, distinct versions of "Sister Ray," no title is repeated, even though every one was recorded in a one-month span in San Francisco in 1969. That's pretty impressive. As is all the new guitar. A-

*Also, when the Max's Kansas City set got more songs and remastered, he liked it better.

My copy of the The Quine Tapes is a promo – I think I wrote something up on it, but the reviews editor (B1lly Altm4n) gently declined to publish it (to his credit... I surely wasn't up to the task)
Aw. Was that Creem? Prob had regulars pitching it like whores jumping up for a blow of coke, as Bangs would say.

Nah, a “dot-com”…

I feel like “Ocean” doesn’t fit the vibe of Loaded, but that’s just me…

I still dislike the Live At Max's material, mostly because of Billy Yule's showboaty fills on the drums, which imho are antithetical to the band's essence

idk I guess it works better on Loaded b/c it doesn't bug me as much there

Think I'd make "Ocean" thee Loaded closer, for that late night 1970 FM stoner appeal (either that or make it next to last, right before the slow version of "Sweet Jane"? With the fast version still near the beginning of Side 1---which would start w "Satellite of Love," btw---"Who Loves The Sun" now a b-side only, waiting for CD- era collectormania)

I feel like “Ocean” doesn’t fit the vibe of Loaded, but that’s just me…

Not just you, it absolutely doesn't. And neither does the version of "Ride Into the Sun" recorded at the sessions, although that's better than about half the tracks on "Loaded" too. "Ocean" on Live 1969/Matrix Tapes is one of my favourite pieces of music ever.

live at Max's, esp the drumming is like them doing stand up of their own material. that beginning to see the light!!!

lol

Recently picked up the January 10th, 1969 and July 11th, 1969 Boston Tea Party shows (someone who is more well versed than I can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe both are part of the 'Professor Tapes'). The July performance is more fiery and frenetic, but the January is the better recorded. Either way, both great to hear and welcome additions to my VU collection.

^ also known as the "Legendary Guitar Amp tapes"

Just the July show is part of that, correct? The January show seems too clean to be recorded in the amp.

guitar amp tapes is a different show — march 15 1969, I think.

Thanks tyler, it's all so confusing. One of the entries at discogs shows the following recording dates for one of the "Legendary Guitar Amp Tapes" boots, which is why I was confused:

Tracks 1-1 to 2-1: Boston Tea Party, March 15, 1969
Tracks 2-2 and 2-4: Boston Tea Party, December 12, 1968
Track 2-3: Boston Tea Party, July 11, 1969

that boot contains bonus stuff on the second disc that IS from the professor tapes. Tyler is correct and I was wrong: these are the shows:

professor tapes
1968/12/12 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party
1969/01/10 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party
1969/03/13 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party
1969/07/11 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party
1969/08/02 Mason, NH - Hilltop Pop Festival

legendary guitar amp
1969/03/15 Boston, MA - Boston Tea Party

Thanks! This is all such a muddled mess for someone just diving in a little deeper.

Another question, while we're on it, is the first night of the Cole Ave. shows really that much worse than the second night? Seeing a lot of commentary that there is a pretty stark difference between the two nights.

Has anyone mentioned Poor Richard's yet?

xp it's definitely lower-fi, but it's not awful or anything, the taper was just further back

xpost Poor Richard's? You mean these two tracks (Heroin & Venus In Furs with Cale on vocals) from the Exploding Plastic Inevitable film by Andy Warhol & Ronald Nameth, recorded at Poor Richard's Club, Chicago, Illinois 6/23/1966 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBfnukdsmSs