Devo: C or D? S & D etc.

t or f Gerald Casale is the Mike Love of Devo

Lol. Good one. Maybe a bit more like Peter Hook.

I don't know if that's fair - they have opposing opinions on the Kent State shootings at least.
I read the biography Recombo DNA, which credits Casale as the main "conceptualist" in the group, which is a pretty important role in Devo.

It's mostly because he is the grifter, and he is a bit cringe.

Also, Mothersbaugh's art books demonstrate that he had plenty to contribute to their concepts, and he wrote a lot of their most "conceptual" songs on his own including Jocko Homo.

I guess there's a parallel if you think both he and Love helped make the work of a talented musical introvert more accessible and understandable to the public.

yeah I mean listening to his solo album I think its clear he's probably most responsible for their overall sound

does seem a bit insufferable but Mike Love he is not

peter hook is a good parallel!

i like everything up to and including oh no its devo and the single here to go but otherwise nothing after that!

Theme From Doctor Detroit is really great

their 2010 comeback album is good, it's just so fucking brickwalled that I almost can't stand to listen to it

Found the two Hardcore Devo comps in a shop a few weeks ago and was surprised to find they're even stranger than I remembered. Especially Vol. 2, it's like some of the most alien music I've ever heard. Also some of the grossest. I think this may be the only time an archival release radically changed my concept of what a band was about. Also Volume 2 has some bonus tracks on it which I've never heard before. "Doghouse Doghouse" is at least kinda funny (the person wailing like a dog, not the lyrics).

one thing though - is "Fountain of Filth" really from the same sessions? it feels like something that could've been on Freedom of Choice! its also cleaner and better recorded than anything else on there. I think someone messed up.

Supposedly 1974 but yeah it doesnt sound like it. It is Ton o' Luv from Freedom of Choice in an early version.

"Fountain of Filth" was in the reunion live set for awhile - stoked to hear it when I saw them!

I think this may be the only time an archival release radically changed my concept of what a band was about.

so otm. the hardcore comps simultaneously upended my idea of who they were while also helping everything else make even more sense than i previously thought it did. like doing a puzzle and fitting all the pieces together correctly, but then realizing that you accidentally had the image spun 90 degrees sideways the whole time

xp - according to the liner notes on my copy, it's 1977. but I still think that's wrong - it sounds like it was recorded in a different place entirely. its like one of those Recombo DNA demos where they changed all the lyrics. not that I'm complaining, the tune is great

Found the two Hardcore Devo comps in a shop a few weeks ago and was surprised to find they're even stranger than I remembered. Especially Vol. 2, it's like some of the most alien music I've ever heard. Also some of the grossest. I think this may be the only time an archival release radically changed my concept of what a band was about.

― frogbs

i got some complicated feelings about the hardcore devo stuff. i was really into them when i was in college, how raw and primitive they were, and i still fucking love the original cover art.

but it's misleading cover art, because that photo set (i can't remember the name of the photographer who put them together, but she did an amazing job) is absolutely the queerest shit devo ever did, and the whole thing about them is that they _weren't_ queer, they were angry disaffected nerds who couldn't get laid. i mean devo have changed and evolved since then, i don't really believe they're like that now, even if mothersbaugh has only ever _ironically_ committed to anti-capitalism, "biting the hand", doing ads with words like "obey" and "consume" worked into them and acting like he's getting one over on his corporate overlords. still, the members of devo overall, i get the feeling they've grown and changed a lot since the '70s.

so first off there's the thing about their whole ethos being a gloss on an overtly racist conspiracy theory. once they got signed to a record label they _mostly_ took the racism out - sure, there was the occasional song called "triumph of the will" or what have you, but nothing nearly as openly _ugly_ as some of the songs on the hardcore albums. i mean, irony isn't a valid defense at this point, whatever they _intended_ some of those songs, and i won't name them but if you've heard them it's pretty obvious, _are_ racist.

and then of course there's the misogyny. i don't know if this was inherent in oscar kiss maerth's work. singing about sexual assault and domestic violence and all sorts of other abuse and particularly, particularly, they seemed...

i remember reading this one anecdote once about devo where they were at some sort of party, sometime around '77-80, and some scene lady dismissed them as "queers", and one of the members of devo responded to that by saying "i'll fuck you right here on the table"

like that is super fucking gross, you know, whether or not devo were queer, whether or not this lady was being homophobic, fucking _hell_

there's also this recording of devo's second concert ever, from the 1974 kent state creative arts festival:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDNPe8u_3eM

that last song there, "androgyny", is uncomfortably terfy, and i don't get the sense that it's meant ironically - these folks aren't exactly super queer. to be clear, i don't think that these sentiments or terf sentiments in general would be endorsed by _any_ living member of devo. i'd be really disappointed if any of them did turn out to be "gender critical". but this is where they started, you know?

i mean devo have changed and evolved since then,

the fuck?!

haha good catch :)

My first experience of the band was seeing the short film for "Mongoloid" on TV, so I went out and picked up Hot Potatoes, a compilation, and that led me to check out the rest of their catalogue. This was during that horrible period in the 1990s when back catalogues were re-released on CD with two albums per disc with generic packaging. But I do still have a Q: Are We Not Men picturedisc, because at the same time vinyl was dirt cheap.

I find the early history fascinating because there was an expectation they were going to be the next big thing. They were on one level tailor-made for MTV. They anticipated it. They had an image. I was surprised to learn that Stiff Records put out a Devo tribute album as early as 1979:
https://www.discogs.com/release/482351-Various-Be-Stiff-Tour

It had a bunch of Stiff acts doing covers of "Be Stiff". But of course Devo didn't sell any records until a few years later, and then not many, and here in the UK they didn't sell any records at all ever. The music industry rejected them for several years until, as if a switch had been flipped, suddenly their brand of image-led modern pop was hip, and furthermore David Bowie put in a good word, so they ended up being signed to Stiff and then Warners, a major label. The problem is that on the surface their image was tailor-made for the UK market circa 1980, but on a deeper level there was a massive world of difference between Devo and Culture Club, Adam Ant, Japan etc. I imagine the executives who signed them couldn't perceive that tonally they were a kind of sci-fi Stranglers in boiler suits. And of course Stranglers fans would probably have rejected them for being weird, so they fell between two stools.

Their career arc was a lot like The B-52s, down to having (a) a classic debut with songs that had been toured for several years (b) a second album that felt like out-takes from the first, although in the case of the B-52s the quality drop wasn't as great (c) and then they were a different and much slicker band entirely. The B-52s worked with David Byrne, albeit briefly, and Devo worked with Brian Eno, but in both cases they were rejected. They never became part of the Eno-Byrne-Fripp-Gabriel-Bowie continuum. They were auditioned, but found wanting, and ultimately they didn't get the nod. That must have hurt.

They get dug up every so often because, as mentioned above, the surface is appealing. Also Mark Mothersbaugh did the music for The LEGO Movie. He must chords, and counterpoint, and stuff. Leitmotifs. That's not something the average new wave-era guitarist would know about. And yet his dad was a defence contractor, or something. How did that happen? Practice, or genetics?

They never became part of the Eno-Byrne-Fripp-Gabriel-Bowie continuum. They were auditioned, but found wanting, and ultimately they didn't get the nod. That must have hurt.

I think they distanced themselves from that bunch, actually. Eno had lots of ideas when producing their debut, but they rejected most of them and told him to produce the songs the way they had been planning them for years. I bet their ideas of infiltrating the mainstream led them to believe they could do it better than the older musicians (though Talking Heads always outsold Devo).

He must chords, and counterpoint, and stuff. Leitmotifs. That's not something the average new wave-era guitarist would know about.

There's a quote, I think from Jerry, in one of the Devo biographies, roughly: "In 1972 Mark had hair down to his ass and was playing keyboards in a prog-rock group for money".

Reminding me of a related quote: "if it wasn't for punk, Colin Newman would still be where he was in 1975 - sitting in a meadow with an acoustic guitar writing songs about horses".

Reminding me of a related quote: "if it wasn't for punk, Colin Newman would still be where he was in 1975 - sitting in a meadow with an acoustic guitar writing songs about horses".

Disagreeing fully with the above. They had to stop eno from trying to have too much influence on their sound. And their influence was huge even before selling records with freedom of choice. Every city had their answer to Devo.

i mean the start of jocko homo is in 7, they had prog-rock chops for sure

regarding the way their sound changed in freedom of choice, that was more down to, as i understand it, dynamics within the band - mark and jerry were pissed off at one or both of the guitar players.

It had a bunch of Stiff acts doing covers of "Be Stiff". But of course Devo didn't sell any records until a few years later, and then not many, and here in the UK they didn't sell any records at all ever.

Wtf the first album went to number 12 in the uk. They were on the covers of the uk music press dozens of times 1977-79 and playing in big venues. Incidentally, the first "tribute" album to Devo is this, which came out slightly earlier than the Stiff one. https://www.discogs.com/release/1570542-Various-KROQ-FM-Devotees-Album

for a late era album, i happen to think that 'something for everybody' is f$cking great.

Yeah it is the best of the lot after the classic first 5.

Probably go: Something for Everybody!>Smooth Noodle Maps>Shout>Total Devo.

If I'm going to listen to Devo nowadays I almost always go for live stuff. There are so many brilliant concert recordings in great quality.

& at their peak as a live band around 1980/81. The hardcore/first album/second album/3rd&4th albums periods all come together when performed live. They are closing the show with Jocko Homo/Smart Patrol/Mr DNA/Gut Feeling/Gates of Steel, all performed in power pop rock band mode and it works perfectly.

IMO Something For Everybody is the only post-Oh No! thing worthy of the Devo name. though I do have a real soft spot for "Doctor Detroit". good album, just wish it hadn't been mastered so hot. also wtf with all the different tracklistings, how does "Watch Us Work It" get relegated to a bonus track

btw I appreciate that perspective rush. I do think the members of Devo skew quite liberal but more than that they're total edgelords. Casale had a 9/11 themed wedding for Christ's sake. they were also horny motherfuckers by the sound of it. so whatever queer themes they might've used were probably meant to be ironic. I kinda feel a lot of the Devo concept was bullshit in general, like wow so cool that the concept of your band is to do as much commercial shit as possible

Hey, the Devolution agenda needs to be paid for!

Casale had a 9/11 themed wedding for Christ's sake.

gerry is all sorts of cringe

yeah he had some kind of ill conceived terrorist-themed group in the 2000s that just seemed like the worst fuckin thing ever.

They never became part of the Eno-Byrne-Fripp-Gabriel-Bowie continuum. They were auditioned, but found wanting, and ultimately they didn't get the nod. That must have hurt.

to me all those stories of people like Bowie Eno Lennon et al courting Devo always sounded like the opposite of "auditioned & found wanting". more like 70s stars with reps as innovators trying to get in on the ground floor with a hyped Next Big Thing band. see also: Johnny Rotten asking to join as lead singer. i never got the impression that Devo wanted or were seeking any of that.

"Jihad Jerry and the Evildoers"? yeah the concept was in bad taste but the album itself is actually pretty good, better than the prior 3 Devo albums at least. though it does lose points for recycling a few obscure Devo tunes.

xpost. Bowie wanted to produce the first album but Devo didn't want to wait until he was available so went off and got themselves set up with Eno instead. They have been explicit on numerous occasions that they removed most of Eno's artistic contributions to the album - synth parts etc. and also backing vocals by Bowie.

see also: Johnny Rotten asking to join as lead singer. i never got the impression that Devo wanted or were seeking any of that.

This was a bit of Machiavellian manouvering from Richard Branson, who was trying to persuade Devo to hire Lydon as lead singer. I don't think anyone has ever claimed Lydon himself asked to join Devo.

ah youre right, did a quick google and it seems that mothersbaughs telling is that branson said he was passing along a request from lydon, but lydon in his memoir says he never heard a word about it and would never have done it. (which is funny bc iirc branson had music press nearby and was like "lets go downstairs and announce johnny rotten is now the singer for devo right now". hilarious to imagine devo saying yes and lydon hearing about it at the same time as the rest of the world.)

Doesn't seem like something Lydon would ever do.

Re some of the comments about the Hardcore material, I don't see so much of a contrast except Alan Myers joined and that's when they "became" Devo. The arrangements don't change much but the songs are faster and they sounded like a proper band that a record label could sign.

And by the time Myers joined they dropped most of the nasty, ugly stuff that Rushomancy refers to. By the end of 1976 their set was songs that ended up on the first two albums. In a small way, they actually distance themselves from it in "The Men Who Make The Music" video. The record company executive plays them "She Didn't Know I Was a Midget", by "Parcheezi" - presented as the epitome of unit-shifting corporate rock. But it is actually their own song "Midget" from three or four years earlier, one of their most retrogressive attempts at Zappa-style humour. The manager tells them they should come up with stuff like that and Bob Mothersbaugh, who wrote Midget responds "I guess we like ideas".

Gerald's newest song (he appears as the Jihad Jerry character in the video) is actually super rad. Guitar solo by Steve Bartek from Oingo Boingo!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kv2UMoynOw

Hey, that IS pretty good! I see he's got a few other recent-ish singles/collaborations on Spotify, will check out.

yeah, not for me.
i'll stick with the devo i know and love.

I'd keep these imo.

Without glancing at the date, you’d think Marsh had responded to Gamergate

HA!

there's something about Duty Now For the Future that irritates me too. I don't know what it is. I think they became really synth heavy one album too early. has some great tunes though.

Wiggly World is like their best song

Duty Now is awesome.

It is but even then I'd rate the first 3: Q:AWNM? > FoC >>> DNftF

frogbs otm about either the sameness or thinness of Duty Now that puts it on a lower tier than the others, at least from a fidelity standpoint.

re David Marsh, "inspired amateurism". Forget that. Shows what certain people must've prioritized back then. I can't imagine listening to those three records and thinking "amateurs".