Oudists: S/D

David Lindley likewise.

One of my world-music-fanatic friends recommeded a great oud player to me not long ago (I think he played at Joe's Pub recently), but I can't remember his name....so no use at all, really.

I saw 'em last fall and Mehdi Haddab (used to be in Ekova) & Smadj both play oud, then Smadj improvises themes/variations on his laptop while Haddab continus. Thought they were good though felt like i'd overdosed on oud after a while.

Incidentally, if anybody's curious what Alig from Family Fodder is doing these days: he's playing the oud!

I can enjoy Anouar Braheim, Hamza el Din, or Udi Hrant, but my favorites remain: Riad el Sounbatti, Farid el Atrache, and Mohammed el Qassabji.

one of the highlights of my trip to Lebanon was sitting in a nice restaurant in West Beirut listening to (pre-recorded) oud music. And no, it didn't occur to me to ask who the music was by.

Hmmm. I wonder if the fact that he thinks the feeling side of improvisation can be taught is a clue to his coldness as a performer.

These pictures they intersperse with the interview are really goofy. Not the pictures in themselves maybe, but their inclusion here.

(np: Tipica 73. Azuquita is definitely one of my favorite soneros.)

I would argue that Shaheen is not as 'cold' or formalistic performer as you see him. I think there is a looser approacch that he has (as argued on another thread) than you see.

I like the way he comes across in this interview, even if some of the things he says are pretty sweeping. As much as I am sympathetic to his Arabo-centric view of music, I have to ask: if Arabic music offers so many more possibilities than the "bankrupt" European classical tradition, why has every major popular Arab composer--the very people he is discussing--incoroprated European classical elements; and more importantly, why is Arabic music in such a blah state right now? Why did the tradition of the composers and performers he mentions largely disappear toward the end of the 70's (if not earlier)? Even so, it does seem to me to be an unfortunate decision for western music to have thrust aside microtonality. I'm not music theory literate, so I don't know if I have enough grasp on what harmony is to understand what was gained and lost. (What about Greek music, which is modal and microtonal, but traditionally makes use of harmony, if I'm not mistaken? Maybe the Greeks hold the key.)

I can't really address all the claims made as once terms like 'microtonality' start flying around I get lost.

re:if Arabic music offers so many more possibilities than the "bankrupt" European classical tradition, why has every major popular Arab composer--the very people he is discussing--incoroprated European classical elements;

I'd argue there that they have been able to incorporate and move on, that the Arabic (classical) tradition is living and the Western is dying in conservatories

>and more importantly, why is Arabic music in such a blah state right now?

is it that blah? (guess we'd need to define Arabic music) I think ppl like Hakim are creating graet Egyptian pop, I'm a huge Rachid Taha fan, I've heard great dance remixes of Wahab, also great stuff from Momo (both releases and remixes) so I'm feeling Arabic music on both a trad and pop/dance level is doing well.

The Greeks pass me by so no commenton that.

Not sure about the names you mention. I definitely haven't even heard of Momo. I will look for samples online.

Ethiopian, hmm I'd have to think about what to recommend. actually I should go start a thread on (or see if there is one)

I might like Momo, but it doesn't sound like it would be a continutation of the elements of Arabic music that excite me the most.

I'm pretty much out of touch with current Arabic music though. I used to regularly go to a grocery store where I could pick up cassettes of new things from time to time, though the proprietor was very much old skool, and rarely had anything good to say about new releases beyond "This one is not to bad" or "Well, so and so sings nice." Or "My wife likes. . ."

H, I am checking out samples of Rachid Taha and Hakim (on the www.maqam.com, which gives me a long enough sample to have a pretty good sense of what these guys are doing).

Two or three of these Hakim songs have the same "New Sound" production that I have heard over and over again. I still kind of like it, but it's definitely not the sort of thing I am looking for. This was the sound that got me into Arabic music, but I burned out on it quickly. I have probably about 20-30 cassettes worth of stuff that sounds similar. That exact drum machine sound, and that clapping and so forth. Hakim's voice is not wimpy the way some of the voices of some past New Sound people are (e.g., Mustapha Amar, at least sometimes), but it's just so-so. Again, it's not that I won't bounce around if I hear this. I like even mediocre Arabic music, but I think that's what it is. Maybe if I were going out and dancing to this type of music, its very formulaic quality wouldn't bother me much.

On the Rachid Taha tracks, I like the way some of the samples are being used, but the rhythms are too western sounding, to me, to be very intereting, and I don't especially like his singing.

what by these guys are you listening to? I think the Hakim live album is stronger than a lot of his other stuff. I'm not as big a fan of his as I am of Rachid Taha though, I actually live his voice, or at least how he uses it. I'm listening to his 'Made in Medina' album right now and the way he half-growls/half-spits out his vocals on "Barra Barra" fits so well. I like the way RT is combining different styles but I like odd mutant sounds so I may be biased on that.

(How I became an audiophile. . .)

I finally bought a copy of this. I had heard it before, but was almost relcutant to like it, having already made up my mind that Shaheen was too dry (that's how I felt about Turath and some of his other recordings and live concert performances). I also had my doubts about Racy after being disappointed by a recording by an ensemble under his leadership. But this is actually quite a good CD. I think I can recommend it as an example of the general style of oud playing that I like best.

so I'm feeling Arabic music on both a trad and pop/dance level is doing well.

This amazes me. Where today is there a collection of classically-rooted popular singers like: Oum Kalthoum, Asmahan, Farid el Atrache, Mohammed Abdel Wahab, Nazem el Gazali, all of whom were (at least briefly) active at the same time? And even once you get past the 40s, all of them except Asmahan (who probably was intentionally killed by someone) were still going. Fairouz's best work: probably from the 60s and early 70s.

I'm sure there's still a lot of good basically traditional music around, but it seems to be directed at much more of a specialist audience.

Well, I’m listening to a lot of different stuff than I was when I posted here a year or so ago, but I still do believe there is good stuff happening out there.

You asked "Where today is there a collection of classically-rooted popular singers like: Oum Kalthoum, Asmahan, Farid el Atrache, Mohammed Abdel Wahab, Nazem el Gazali...."

Well, Oum is a case unto herself in terms of how people reacted to her throughout the Arabic speaking world. That was a once in a life time experience and I doubt anyone could ever achieve the level of fame and stature she had. The same goes for Wahab.

This is not to denigrate Fairouz, Atrache or anyone other than the two listed above, but, I dunno those two were giants - they were bigger than the Beatles - to use rock/pop models - its Lata & Asha style fame (probably actually bigger than Lata & Asha) but those models are also gone.

To use one example you mentioned, I don't think Farida is particularly outside of the mainstream. I've seen her in the US, I've seen her in Europe, lots of ppl turn out to see her. Is she ever going to command an audience like Oum, no. Would it be possible for ANYONE to command an audience like Oum nowadays? I doubt it. (3 million ppl turned out for her funeral procession!! Fela got one million and that was probably the last we'll see of that kind. Maybe, maybe mebbe in Brazil for a few ppl but I doubt it.) Worldwide processions for Tupac are far more likely in my opinion (and not being sarcastic here, based on seeing the love for him here and elsewhere around the world)

Also, perhaps our definitions of what is good and interesting differ. We both love Oum (tho as I’ve said elsewhere you are way way more familiar with her than I am) and Wahab and others like that. However, I also feel as if my interests in contemporary pop fusions - whether in remixes of ppl like Wahab, or in artists who are consciously trying to experiment with mixtures of traditional with rock, or funk, or _____ is more palatable to me than you. (I could be wrong here)

Ok, enuf drunken ramblings on my part.

Yes, you like more of the mixed stuff than I do, but I am not dead set against western pop influences in Arabic music.

Farida seems like more of a western phenomenon (even though she's doing very traditional music), by virtue of being an Iraqi in exile. (I don't know if she is still in exile, but obviously there's not much to go back to for the moment.)

I do like the Lebanese singer Ali Aldik reasonably well. Have you heard him? (He's not a great singer or anything, but I like the sort of sounds he goes for.)

I don't know about Abdel Wahab vs. Farid. I think Farid is Abdel Wahab's equal (or maybe even better) as a singer. And from what little I've heard, Farid is also the better oudist. As a composer Abdel Wahab was probably better (though I have pretty mixed feelings about his more postmodern kitchen sink compositions). I still am not even sure what percentage of the work of each I've heard. Also, a lot of Arabs I have discussed these two with really can't stand Andel Wahab as a person, and it carries over into their feeling about his music.

Farida is in exile but her shows have been pretty much straight ahead classical stuff the three times I've seen her. Not that much fusion stuff from what I have seen or heard abt her.

Your comments on Wahab are interesting as I only think abt Wahab as a hugely important composer, not a singer. I'll have to delve into this. (any suggestions?)

and no, i have not heard, or heard of, Ali Aldik. Recs?

What I've heard of Blue Flame sounds really bland (and this is what I've heard from other people whose taste is fairly similar to mine in this music). Sorry.

Actually, I am just now getting very interested in exploring Wahab's own recordings more seriously. I like Toul Omri (BGCD603). (www.rashid.com has audio samples, but it is impossible for me to link directly to the page with the CD.) I also just picked up a rather short CD of his called Le Celebre, which is pretty good and contains what seem to be very early recordings (20s?). It's pretty hardcore though. I think every vocal track begins with a standard "Layali" vocal improvisation. (Even if you don't know what I mean, it would be familiar enough if you heard an example of it.)

I have heard weirdly contradictory things about Abdel Wahab: that he lost his voice after a certain point his career; that, no, his singing was good on various recordings throughout his career; and that he didn't lose his voice but that he always had some problems with clearing his throat too much or something (which he does do a lot on some recordings I've heard).

i'll check out the wahab samples - i am fascinated in hearing that vocal aspect. i'm so familiar with his compositional, but not vocal, work that it is exciting to discover this other aspect.

Re Farida, I don't even know here to start in terms of how someone like her plays into the role of traditional music, exile music and especially today. I don't think she is a purely conservationist singer, but i also saw her last about three years ago - i don't know what changes she has (or has not made) since then in her performance, styles of music she performs, etc.

To refer to this though "Maybe I'm wrong and she has a bigger Arab following than I think, and maybe in a reconstructred Iraq she would find a lot of love. "

hmmm, honestly, i have many questions but am abt to go to bed. I'll post 'em tomorrow.

So while western music was discovering or rediscovering improvisation, mostly by way of African slaves and their descendants, the Arabs were beginning to emulate European classical music and moving away from the improvisatory aspects of their musical tradition. This makes me sad, but I guess this type of change is inevitable.

I'm not into Bashir's playing at all, and I don't feel any emotional connection to it. Is there anything more you can say about what you like about his oud playing? (I realize it's not always easy to try to descrbe these things.)

My ideal example of oud playing, which I haven't mentioned yet in this thread, is the solo in Riad el Sounbatti's Ashwak.

One final thing thoug: here are Ali Jihad Racy's comments on these three oudists in "The Many Faces of Improvisation: The Arab Taqasim as a Musical Symbol" (for which I did not write down a source):

Among 'ud players, there are numerous distinctive profiles. For example, the late Farid al-Atrash of Egypt often prefaced his live vocal performances with his own taqasim on the 'ud. Displaying a popular style of 'ud playing seemingly intended to please large live audiences and fans, his renditions stand out for their relatively fast pacing and dense picking, and for making frequent use of the more familiar maqamat. Also striking is the prevalence of cliche qaflat and 'expected surprises,' for example habitaully ending his ud taqasim with a passage in maqam Kurd and gradually introducing a pedal-toen and a melodic configuration outlining the piece 'Asturias' by the Spanish composer Albeniz. Al-Atrash's taqasim are copied widely, at times note for note by amateur ud players, whose imitations often drraw criticism for lacking originality, in other words for being banal and highly predictable.

In contrast, the late Riyad al-Sunbati of Egypt, considered one of the greatest composers and proponents of the Arab modal tradition, has recorded somewhat circumspect taqasim that flow along the organic structures of the mode but evoke intense ecstatic sensations. Particularly cherished by other musicians and musical aficianados, al-Sunbati's style is marked by precise intonation, careful pacing, distinct interest in rsonance, careful utilization of pauses, economy and subtlety in the use of the plectrum, and full exploration of the primary mode before a modulation is introduced. His renditions achieve a unique balance between feeling and technical excellence.

Meanwhile, the late Iraqi 'ud player Munir Bashir, whose style is influenced by the artistry of his Turkish trained teacher Sharif Muhyi al-Din Haydar, presents a highly lyrical style which unlike the traditional mainstream of Arab 'ud playing appears seamless, thus avoiding clear cut qaflat and phrase delineations. Many of his (typically long) performances stay in the same maqam and maintain a subdued, meditative mood quite consistently. Listeners sometimes pseak of non-Arab inluences on his style, including North Indian ragas and jazz. Having performed in various major cities in Asia, Europe, and North America, Bashir has created improvisatory works that are intended to evoke specific impressions, for example those of ancient Babylon. Deriving significantly from the Iraqi modal tradition, Bashir's style is also highly ambient. Employing subtle but effective dynamic inflections and a gradual build up in the intensity of picking, his playing is known to demand quiet concentration on the part of the listeners.

He really slams Farid there, maybe too much. I think he had a pretty distinctive sound as an oud player.

A page of files of Farid songs. Check out "3enaya mahma aloo 3annak" (or at least the beginning) as an example. He performs a solo not very long into the song. Great rhythms in the song itself, too.

And one for Asmahan, his enchanting, mysterious, and ill-fated sister (who is another member of the Arabic music pantheon), just in case you are curious. The first song there is probably as good an entry point as any.

Farid & Friends making great music with different instruments.
The gambus is made of wood (hence the name oud). But unlike the guitar, it has 12 strings and no frets-ridges on the fingerboard.--http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2005/3/13/features/10351458&sec=features

http://www.mauriceouds.com/english/about.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahOVh1VVD3w&search=farid%20atrash

I don't hear enough oud recordings to make sweeping judgments, but I still think this is an instant classic.

It's a really long, extremely well-recorded CD, and it feels like a big space to explore. I wish I could listen to it on a good stereo, because part of the enjoyment is in all of the subtle timbral aspects of the performance, including sometimes seemingly incidental sounds. The recording is dominated by oud improvisation (sometimes completely solo, sometimes with spare percussion accompaniment), but also includes instrumental, oud and percussion, renderings of well-known (enough so that I recognized most of them) folkloric songs.

The live Iraqi Music in a Time of War was excellent, but on repeated listens I find that I want to skip past the introductory comments. Also, the compositions he plays tend to be dances played on the oud, never my favorite style of oud playing (though he does it exceptionally well). It's a remarkable historical document when one considers it was recorded in New York city as the US invasion of Iraq was beginning, but this new studio recording is more completely satisfying.

The first two discs of this box set, Al Tarab: Muscat Ud Festival, are exquisite. Unfortunately, the pieces for oud and orchestra together, which make up about half of the third disc and all of the fourth disc, aren't so exquisite.

Farid, with an overly rowdy audience, but this is some nice extended playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NVl7SoXdF8&mode=related&search=

Not extended technique, you know, but an extend passage. And as I always say, he does tend to play the same thing over and over, but it's better than saying the same thing over and over (from solo to solo), and he does it so well it kind of doesn't matter.

Another satisfied audience.

Simon Shaheen/Ali Jihad Racy: Taqasim

wow, I have this! I like it. I also have a record by some Adel Salameh guy, called "Le Maitre d'Oud", so he must be very good.

At this stage I do not know enough about this style of music to be able to recognise good or bad playing of it.

he does tend to play the same thing over and over, but it's better than saying the same thing over and over (from solo to solo)

I have no idea what this meant.

Rahim AlHaj has a new CD out, and it sounds pretty fantastic, judging by these clips:

http://cdbaby.com/cd/rahimalhaj5

Sorry to sound all street team about it, but I am just trying to point it out, and as I haven't even heard the whole thing myself, what am I going to say? Still, based on these clips, I'm completely confident this is an excellent recording.

Extremists in Iraq literally destroying ouds

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/world/middleeast/01oud.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th

Erica Goode, NY Times article
excerpt:
BAGHDAD — Dhia Jabbar hides his oud in a sack when he walks down the street in his Baghdad neighborhood.

An oud maker in his workshop in central Baghdad. Residents rarely play the oud in public now for fear of angering militants critical of secular music.

Dhia Jabbar, in Baghdad, was threatened by militiamen who destroyed another oud.
He used to teach students in the back room of a photo shop, where the sound could not be heard. But last week, militia gunmen invaded the store, destroying one of his instruments and ordering him to stop teaching. He had dreamed of a performing career, but now he has lost hope.

“Iraq is dead,” he says.

That is such a fucked up story. Total bummer.

Riad el Sounbati solo oud recordings back in print (and I will get this as soon as reasonably possible--maybe before reasonably possible, because man cannot live by bread alone):

http://www.buyarabic.com/storeItem.asp?ic=MUAR002427

Also, new reissues (I assume they are reissues) of Ahmad El Hefnawi, Oum Kalthoum's brilliant primary violinist. I haven't confirmed yet whether these are solo recordings by him, or what, but if they are, that's another essential purchase.

Apparently the answer is yes. I don't think I've ever seen solo Ahmad El Hefnawi available on CD, not since I've known who he was anyway.

February 23

Oud Knights with Amina and Shayma: When Oud Speaks (female oud
players from Bahrain) for free from 6 to 7 (and webcast and archived)
at the Kennedy Center Millennium Stage in Washington DC

Férid Latrache

Oh good, another spelling to keep track of.

Very very brief oud solo in this Mohammed Abdo song (around 4:30?), but this is the kind of oud playing that khaleeji music is full of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlFy9-aNn3k

Sometimes it runs through entire songs, a more rhythmic, even percussive, oud sound.

So I think there must be a lot of great oudists in the Gulf states whose names I do not know.

Don't know who this is, but they sound great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezQrTiXg7no

(I'm a bit baffled about country even, but I'm thinking North Africa or somewhere in the Gulf. Maybe Yemen.)

And the associated videos seem to be from Yemen, and here's another lightning-fast oudist from Yemen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU3Yue-dr-8&feature=related

Very cool looking electric oud:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai7f6zNzCfw

Wow, I've never seen one of those

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/38841/simon-shaheen-at-the-atlas-performing-arts-center

Washington Post's freelance reviewer M*rk J3nkins on Simon Shaheen live with photos

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/clicktrack/2010/05/in_concert_simon_shaheen_at_th.html

The latest issue of Signal to Noise has an extensive interview with Rahim Alhaj, who I see R.S. has mentioned a few times both upthread and elsewhere across ILM. I should have paid attention to your posts earlier, sir! The article (which was quite good) inspired me to seek out his music via iTunes/Amazon thanks to some leftover birthday gift credit and now I've got six of his eight American albums so far, all quite excellent though the solo performances are definitely the best to my ears. I'm very interested to sit down properly with his Little Earth collaborative project, the range of performers alone is striking.

Hey, don't be giving me an excuse to by Signal to Noise. I'm glad you are enjoying Rahim's music. Despite approach the third anniversary of my relocation to New Mexico, I have yet to see him perform live. I expect that will happen sooner or later.

Oddly, I think I first found out of him by way of a Christgau review (possibly posted or linked to on ILM).

When I talked with him (Rahim, not Christgau) in person once, he seemed pretty bored with the Smithsonian recording I was heaping praise on earlier. He's much more interested in doing something that is somehow new. Still, I don't hear anything else he's done as all that experimental. I'm not sure what to make of that. Possibly he has trouble breaking out of the classical tradition in which is so highly trained; but on the other hand, lacking music theory, I may simply not hear what's going on that is different in some of other recordings.

There's actually quite a bit of discussion of theory and scale in the Signal to Noise piece I mentioned, and from the sound of it he found it an interesting challenge (probably for the very reasons you mentioned) with the Little Earth performers to see where such training and those of his collaborators didn't easily mesh.

A generous selection of solo Riad El Sonbaty music available on Spotify, which is just what the doctor ordered for today. Maybe if I had listened to this first I would not have gone off at my Democratic partisan hack older brother.

Moron.

I should listen to him and to Rahim Alhaj tonight. Don't know oud music well but like various players I have heard over the years

The Muscat Oud Festival recordings are available on Spotify. Overall, this is an incredible collection. I don't have much to say at the moment since it's been a while since I've listened to it (more to do with my current audio set up than a lack of interest), but I talked it up when it first came out.

http://open.spotify.com/album/4U0TybPA9EZjWv0qm3hCn8

Here's what I posted earlier on this thread, which is how I remember this set:

The first two discs of this box set, Al Tarab: Muscat Ud Festival, are exquisite. Unfortunately, the pieces for oud and orchestra together, which make up about half of the third disc and all of the fourth disc, aren't so exquisite.

Here's sund4r on an Ahmed Fathi track from this compilation, one which famously placed in a low turnout ILM EOY track poll:

I love "La Tisafir" and it probably is my favourite single track of the year but I don't feel like I know enough about oud music that I'm totally comfortable commenting on it. What knocks me out is the oud-only section beginning around 1:35 which alternates rapid strumming of thick chords with melodic commentary, building in intensity. It reminds me of things I love in some South American classical guitar music as well as in some rock music. This is where I start to feel like a dope but the sonority he hits around 2:10 reminds me of early Sonic Youth and post-Branca no wave in a way, just with more going on in the rhythm and intricate melodies. And then he goes back to the memorable main vocal tune (I want to describe the delivery as 'soulful,' heaven help me, and I feel like a dope again) and gorgeous elaborate rippling melodic commentary.

(Why would it be good if the poll had so many more participants that a track like this would get forgotten?)

― sund4r, Tuesday, May 1, 2007 9:12 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I just read that and it seems unsatisfyingly clinical. The track feels yearning, intense, and beautifully intricate.

― sund4r, Tuesday, May 1, 2007 9:14 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

***Put Ya Hands Up for the 2006 ILX TRACKS POLL RESULTS***

The Simon Shaheen interview from 2003 is still available (on Web Archive) and still a fascinating read - http://web.archive.org/web/20030818015403/http://www.afropop.org/multi/interview/ID/39/Simon%20Shaheen%20on%20the%20oud

My first oudist was Waed Bouhassoun from Syria, from hearing her live concert for Radio France Musique from September 2015 - http://www.francemusique.fr/player/resource/106453-118451 - the concert starts @ 3:00 mins and is available online until Jun 2018

Not sure how Bouhassoun compares to anyone else, but it's a really hypnotic sound, just oud and voice. (More info on the program page.)

*Shaheen

A fair amount of oud in this great movie doc:

http://theconversation.com/on-the-banks-of-the-tigris-a-documentary-that-traces-the-forgotten-history-of-iraqi-music-47260

Mohamed el-Qasabgi (I assume):

https://youtu.be/E54u766R3fA?t=8m11s

Love that oud sound even though I don't know much about it.

Reposting without the link errors this time:

Simon Shaheen on the oud (2003) good interview
- http://web.archive.org/web/20101228042512/http://www.afropop.org/multi/interview/ID/39/Simon+Shaheen+on+t

Waed Bouhassoun – Heritage Days: Concert of Traditional Music / Tribute to Syrian Cultural Heritage
- https://www.francemusique.fr/emissions/programme-special/journees-du-patrimoine-concert-de-musiques-traditionnelles-hommage-au-patrimoine-culturel-syrien-12932

^ This French radio concert is still online (Music starts @ 3:00 mins in the show). From the blurb:
"Waed Bouhassoun (voice & oud), with her poetic, intense and personal presence while remaining closer to the spirit of her country's music, we will share this program that she titled 'The soul of the lute'."

And random clips

Simon Shaheen & Rima Khcheich
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9WHeKntZq4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-wS9e1KFhY

Bouhassoun was interviewed (with flutist Naïssam Jalal) about how Syrian musicians have coped with the destruction in their country:

- https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.franceculture.fr%2Femissions%2Flactualite-musicale%2Fsyrie-que-faire-quand-est-musicien / (Original in French)