Earth Wind and Fire - Classic or Dud? [UPDATE Feb 2016: RIP Maurice White]

and the harp!

I wonder why George Clinton hates them?

Their late 80s material ("System Of Survival" was the actual title of that song, wasn't it?) was really, really, really awful though.

-- Daniel_Rf

Does he, really? Or was Kenny just referring to "Let's Take It To The Stage" (in which GC good-naturedly disses "Earth, Hot Air & No Fire" along with "Fool & The Gang", "Slick And The Family Brick", etc.)?

Anyways, obviously classic. Even Geir likes 'em! (I wonder what he thought about their "Got To Get You Into My Life" cover.) The only band to place two LPs in my own personal Top 10 of 1975. (Never cared much for "Boogie Wonderland" but that's an anomaly.)

Love that "R&B version of Yes" description!

That song was never my favourite Beatles song anyway.

i need copies of the first two albums and *head to the sky*. i think i'm good with everything else. TO THIS DAY, i have never heard the first album. i've heard *the need of love* which is the 2nd album. and i've heard *head to the sky*. sold my copies :(

anyway, listening to *last days and time* right now. so great. *open our eyes* might be my fave album though.

They were pure mimicry in the '80s, though: What was "Let's Groove" if not "Fantastic Voyage" on a bigger budget?

???

I was going to say...

Two other unmentioned classics "Misled" (which I've actually made an edit for which takes out the half speed parts), and of course the wonderful wonderful "Brazilian Rhyme".

Remember when they had that HBO special in the early 80s? Boy did they look cool in that.

From 1971-75, they ruled.

I'm no disco fan, so I won't comment on anything since, although I do retain a soft spot for "Serpentine Fire."

Keep Your Head to the Sky

there is a version of that song on which in which they push the falsetto to weird glass-shattering heights. you can hear their vocal chords shredding; check it out, man

classic

Dude I work with came back from his lunch break the other day with a whole bag full of mint condition EWF LPs he'd found in a charity shop. I was very jealous.

I love EWF's disco stuff more than their earlier funk. Their particular sound works so great for the sort of disco grooves of pure, unadulterated joy. Everyone should check out Raise!, it's one of the best disco LPs ever (and "Let's Groove" is one of my favourite songs ever). It's better than I Am, in my opinion, which (despite containing "Boogie Wonderland") is less energetic and joyful.

OTM re: Raise! > I Am but to quibble a bit I wouldn't call either "disco" though both were played in discos.

I think Raise! is maybe at some junction point between disco and electro-funk (especially "Let's Groove"), but I think the way the strings and the horns are arranged and the fact that almost every tune is based on a steady 4/4 groove makes it pretty much a disco LP, despite the fact that disco was almost dead by 1981. Then again, like I said I think EWF's sweet and clean funk sound has always been pretty close to disco, tunes like "Fantasy" are already disco in my opinion.

"Can't Hide Love." Guys.

This song never doesn't do it for me.

I spent months trying to figure out what it was, asking everyone I knew, "Hey do you know that one '70s R&B song that goes 'dun dun DUN DUN!' and then ends with this epic harmony battle?" Of course no one knew what I was talking abt but I got a feeling it was EW&F and that best of was SO good an investment.

in the stone!

Their live album, Gratitude, is fucking fantastic, and there's nothing from it on the 2CD Essential Earth, Wind & Fire, which is a crime.

I got the box set @ a garage sale for $15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1kDmnHyOBg

Boogie Wonderland is a disco classic, the only people who think it's cheese are the ones who think disco was cheese in general.

Yeah, also, as Tuomas says, BW is ACE

well that is the problem. anything disco or associated with it is seen as pure cheese.

i love BW. never said it wasnt ace.

half expecting someone to come in and tell me disco ISNT seen as cheese

Sorry but you're just wrong there, EWF were very well respected as something more than a 'disco band, I mean, they were virtually a prog rock band! Concept albums (sort of), complex music, virtuoso musicianship, extravagant stageshows and Phil Collins!

judging everything by what ignorant people think it is is a losing game, StillAdvance!

hey, look, i have almost all their albums, im not dismissing them so lightly. you dont have to tell me about their greatness. and sure, perhaps i should give up trying to gauge how they are perceived by the greater (british) public, but honestly, when it comes to 70s funk bands, the only ones you really see covered seriously in the music press are those beginning with p and f. i dont see how this is news to anyone, sorry guys.

a late period song of theirs i love -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyIm2rWrGZQ

just went on to spotify to see what their most popular songs are and whaddyaknow?! its september, lets groove, and boogie wonderland.

And why not, after all!

The current lineup includes Philip Bailey, Verdine White and Ralph Johnson, and then a bunch of other dudes, the most veteran of whom joined in 1996 - all the others are from 2001 or later, but one of them is Bailey's son.

I don't think this is true at all. As Mark S pointed out when Alfred said the same thing on Facebook, EWF had 12 hit singles in the UK, the highest of which was September.

― Brian of Morbius (stevie)

Stupid of me. Don't know where I got that idea other than my not thinking much of "Boogiw Wonderland."

I think we've been over this before. Clinton's jibes at Earth Wind and Fire apparently originated in some sort of tour-related conflict between the two bands, but it was never a serious beef. He clowns on every 70s funk band on "Let's Take It to the Stage," not just EWF. I think the perception that EWF were his mortal enemies originates in that same Dave Marsh singles book, because Marsh projects all the time and thinks everybody else views the world as antagonistically as he does.

― Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Friday, February 5, 2016 1:51 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The Funk episode of the 1995 PBS Rock & Roll series ("Dancing In The Street" in the UK) took a swipe at EW&F for "selling out"/"softening" their sound to get on white radio. The episode centered around Clinton, and the strong implication was that EW&F were the lesser band for crossing over.

I don't think Maurice White had toured with EWF for quite a few years, but the group has remained very popular on touring circuit in US. I know they played a Superbowl pregame and the White House both in the past few years.

The tune by them I seem to find used all the time in incidental ways is Serpantine Fire. You will hear that bass groove used as bumper music quite a bit.

Never understood why this wasn't a smash hit, being the first single to the follow-up to the mega selling I Am. Steve Lukather on guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO5RSVAghgs

RIP Maurice

George Clinton was on the radio news here tonight paying tribute so hey maybe beef was exaggerated

yeah idk all the lines in Let's Take it to the Stage are obvious goofs, dunno how anyone could take those as serious attacks

yeah idk all the lines in Let's Take it to the Stage are obvious goofs, dunno how anyone could take those as serious attacks

Many people think rappers are who they portray themselves as being in their lyrics, too, I hear.

its weird to think if they had broken up after their first five albums they would probably just be remembered by cratedigging soulfunk weirdos. kinda like the first five kool & the gang albums.

How well does the band fit into the Afro-Futurist pantheon? All their costumes and iconography, was that all there was to it, or was there a philosophy, too?

I had no idea these guys were so well-loved tbh

by critics, you mean. They're one of the best-selling acts in the world. Al Green and Stevie Wonder are the only other two acts I can think of about whom no one has an unkind word.

no really I just mean in general! I don't have any unkind words, I m/l don't think about them at all. (There's a bit in the Nelson George doc about how there's this kind of divide in funk fandom between EWF and P-Funk fans and I am def in the latter camp while not really caring about the former)

not trying to be a dick or anything just advertising that I live in a vacuum apparently

I rescreened the TTWoTW movie last night (found the DVD for $2.50 at a truck stop last year). In terms of period and downbeatness, the only comparison I can think of is Slade In Flame, providing a yin to the latter's yang. After dynamite opening credits sequence showing EWF (as "The Group") recording the title song, they take a backseat to story about wonderkid producer Buckmaster (Harvey Keitel) getting pressured by his label to record new signees The Pages, a "family" easy listening trio (led by Bert Parks and featuring the willowy Cynthia Bostick, who's kinda hot in a '70s gingham way). Aside from the EWF performance footage (including a knockout sequence w/Keitel & Bostick taking in their show at a huge roller disco), the best part is a long sequence that works as sort of a love letter to the art of production, showing Keitel work--through overdubbing, re-arranging etc.--The Pages' innocuous "Joy Joy Joy" ditty into a believable piece of AM Gold.

I don't hear a divide...? I love them both.

I can't think of a week when I don't an EW&F chestnut on R&B radio, CVS, or the mall. Everyone I know who's younger than 60 owns at least one comp.

I forget who brings it up in the doc but it does feel like something of an artificial construct - it was like they wanted to get the interview subjects (D'Angelo, Shock G, etc.) to pick sides (and they happily do)

(everybody picks P-Funk btw)

Which doc is this?

http://www.okayplayer.com/news/nelson-george-finding-the-funk-doc-premiere-vh1-video.html

i used to go to a bar years ago that was ALWAYS playing the EWF greatest hits album and boy did it get tiresome. but, you know, i will always love them. i do listen to that first album a ton. those first two albums were new to me in the 90's. but all the 70's stuff is solid.

It was a treat when I learned years ago that the they-were-a-singles-band claim was as poorly informed as when applied to Elton.

http://www.okayplayer.com/news/nelson-george-finding-the-funk-doc-premiere-vh1-video.html

Cool, thanks!

it is great

coming out in September (naturally):
http://www.amazon.com/Keep-Your-Head-Sky-Earth/dp/0062329154

Lot of interesting EWF anecdotes in David Foster's autobio, Maurice sounds like he was a stand-up guy in addition to his tremendous musical talents, RIP

The kindly older black gentleman that sold me my first electric guitar told me that after his shift he was going to see EWF live, "see if I can get me some Tang, hold the water."

It's that day.

https://t.co/Kh6Aq2kIds pic.twitter.com/Y9kJsaRuEq

— demi adejuyigbe (@electrolemon) September 21, 2019

that is wonderful

Aw shit they were playing EWF in the local book shop today!

It's the day

https://t.co/FRHZXzd9xe • https://t.co/ztznLId5fl pic.twitter.com/z2d4Mv6szm

— demi adejuyigbe (@electrolemon) September 21, 2021

https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/september-21stthats-today-by-demi-adejuyigbe/

I tried giving Chicago another chance recently, specifically the first five years of recording activity - couldn't get into it for a lot of reasons. It's not a band I'll ever find appealing. While reading up on them, I came across a few dismissals that urged the curious to try the first Blood, Sweat & Tears album (with Al Kooper) or Earth, Wind and Fire instead, both of which I already knew and loved.

With saxophonist Andrew Woolfolk's recent passing, I decided to set aside the Chicago stuff and put on EWF. That switch really made me appreciate EWF a hell of a lot more - they're just so much better at melding horns with their music. Also better melodies, better songs, better singing, better sounding production - much, MUCH better across the board.

I'm thinking their mid/late '80s is almost as solid as their '70s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux6MLIjJT_4

You and Xgau:

I should mention that because I prefer their slick early-'80s decline to their soulful late-'70s ascendancy (not to mention their fusoid early-'70s launch), my tastes in this matter are unorthodox if not crackpot.

I'll split the difference between mid/late '80s and '70s by enjoying "Let's Groove" from 1981:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrle0x_DHBM

Ha! I'd no idea. He "prefers" while I say "almost as solid."

"Let's Groove" is one of the greatest singles ever recorded.

Hook after hook!

disagree vehemently that 80s ewf is as as good as (or better than!?) 70s, but also curious - what about maurice white's one solo album from 1984?

i admit to attempting to listen a decade or so ago and being really disappointed.

okay listening to the maurice white album now — it's very mor. meh. sounds like swing out sister or some other 80s plastic popsoul iteration. i don't hate it, but it's not especially engaging and the "stand by me" cover is just. . . no.

SOS album is better.

sadlol not wrong

I had no idea there was an unrelated group called Earth and Fire. For a second, I thought it could be EWF minus some crucial member(s).

song of the marching children is a cool album!