― splooge (thesplooge), Saturday, 2 October 2004 15:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 2 October 2004 16:02 (nineteen years ago) link
It's funny, I saw "Saturnz Return" for $4.99 Canuck in a bargain bin a few weeks ago, and thought "That's asking too much". I remember scoring a promo copy when the album came out, and I was so disappointed in it that I pawned the thing a week later.
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 2 October 2004 16:21 (nineteen years ago) link
tim: Digital (Boymerang Remix), Beachdrifta, Manslaughter (Rider Proto '96), Liquid Fingerz (Goldie Remix), Rob & Goldie - The Shadow (Process Mix: 5 minutes of absurdly 'dark' synths and macspeak, and that's just the intro)
those arent all pre-timeless but they are all solid gold i swear.
― harshaw (jube), Saturday, 2 October 2004 18:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 2 October 2004 19:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dave M. (rotten03), Saturday, 2 October 2004 19:12 (nineteen years ago) link
YES!
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 2 October 2004 19:16 (nineteen years ago) link
This just reminded me about Eastenders. I can't even remember what he did in it but (kneejerkly) ACH HELL JESUS NO
― Alex in Doncaster (Alex in Doncaster), Saturday, 2 October 2004 19:17 (nineteen years ago) link
As Rufige Kru: The "Darkrider" EP (esp. "Jim Screechy"), the "Ghosts" EP (feat. "Terminator II")
As Metalheadz: The "Terminator" EP
If ALL three of these EPs had been compiled (with the "Angel" EP) it would have been the single greatest darkcore/jungle album/comp ever. Unfortunately instead he released Timeless. :(
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 2 October 2004 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link
as Internal Affairs (w/ 4hero) - "hands to heaven" + "shinin down on me"
as The Two G'$ (w/ guy called gerald) - "energy"
as Rufige Kru - "darkrider" + "killa muffin"
as Goldie - "manslaughter" + "terminator"
i think that pretty much covers it for the good stuff pre-timeless
let's not forget the armand van helden "speed garage" remixes of "digital". there's a guy on those remixes who keeps shouting "UK garridge crew!!" - was that the first time on record? was that the first time the term speed garage was used? (or 1st time printed on a label?)
― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 2 October 2004 19:30 (nineteen years ago) link
I think Timeless is an excellent album - it was on my '90s shortlist, though it may not have made the 30. Can't remember the last time I played Saturnz Return. I may well never play Mother again.
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 2 October 2004 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link
― splooge (thesplooge), Saturday, 2 October 2004 23:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 3 October 2004 00:15 (nineteen years ago) link
OTM. I think I have, in total, about 8 mixes.
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Sunday, 3 October 2004 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link
Dark MetalAngel--Peshay Back from Nam mixScarface, Hand of the Dead Body remixBelieve, MJ Cole remixUniversal Love remix
― bugged out, Sunday, 3 October 2004 01:33 (nineteen years ago) link
Honestly, does ANYBODY like it?
― Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 3 October 2004 01:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Sunday, 3 October 2004 02:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 3 October 2004 10:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 3 October 2004 11:14 (nineteen years ago) link
i seem to remember photek in his bbc radio 1 essential mix from a few years back using 'mother' in its entirety!! nearly half the mix was taken up by this one track.
you have to admire him for blatantly taking the piss here.
****
by the way, can anyone recommend the new rufige cru disc?
― sam500, Thursday, 26 July 2007 07:54 (sixteen years ago) link
It still strikes me as odd that Goldie didn't produce more tracks pre-Timeless. I guess we're talking about only a three-or-so year period but it's so usual that these guys do heaps and heaps of stuff before they finally get around to making a patchy album. But Goldie was very efficient, it's like he evolved (and then later "evolved") with big steps every time he released something, such that the road from "Terminator" to "Inner City Life" actually isn't that long and winding at all. I keep on thinking that there should be a whole album's worth of largely-unknown Kemistry/Manslaughter/Angel type stuff but perhaps not...
Compare/contrast with Roni Size/Reprazent, where you could make albums and albums of all the excellent pre-New Forms material (yes, I know, there was an extra two years there...)
― Tim F, Thursday, 26 July 2007 09:37 (sixteen years ago) link
surely the date is wrong on this discogs entry - should be '96 at least that's when i heard Fabio drop VIP Rider's Ghost for the first time on his radio show. And 'Unofficial Ghost' sounds too advanced to be '94.
― blueski, Thursday, 26 July 2007 10:04 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah I have to conclude "Unofficial Ghost" came out after "Drumz '95". Still one of the all time amazing tracks, that slowed down amen break is just to die for.
― Tim F, Thursday, 26 July 2007 11:54 (sixteen years ago) link
would it be unfair to say that goldie is only as good as his right hand man / co-producer (e.g. rob playford/4 hero on 'timeless' & heist on the new rufige kru)?
― sam500, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:04 (sixteen years ago) link
Dunno. Who was Mark Sayfritz, who co-produced the actually rilly rilly great Ring of Saturn ep???
― Tim F, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:06 (sixteen years ago) link
The first time I head "Unofficial Ghost" was on the first Platinum Breaks comp, which came out in 1996. It's still the best Goldie tune I've ever heard, though that's more thanks to the remix.
― Tuomas, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:09 (sixteen years ago) link
"Unofficial Ghost" is really a Doc Scott tune innit - the sounds that it samples from "Fabio's Ghost" have been on so many d&b tunes that its status as a remix starts to become a bit tenuous.
― Tim F, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:16 (sixteen years ago) link
never heard of mark sayfritz.
actually i was just looking at his entry in discogs and i saw this comment from someone at the bottom:
“He (goldie) admitted himself that he doesn’t actually write the music so much as he gives ideas to the real producer (such as Rob Playford). Rob Playford on the other hand said that without Goldie he would never have come up with some of this stuff.”
guess that clears up my query then!
― sam500, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:18 (sixteen years ago) link
Hold on, is "Fabio's Ghost" some other tune than "Ghost of My Life"? Because I thought "Unofficial Ghost" is a remix of the latter.
― Tuomas, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:20 (sixteen years ago) link
incidentally, you can hear 4 hero's drums all over timeless.
― sam500, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:20 (sixteen years ago) link
Haha, I was just gonna say that Goldie's remix of 4 Hero's "Universal Love" is much better than the original, because it has wicked drums.
― Tuomas, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:24 (sixteen years ago) link
"Fabio's Ghost"/"Ghosts of my Life"/"VIP Rider's Ghost' - all variations on the one track, yeah? "Ghosts of my Life" is the original I think, but I seem to remember hearing that "The Unofficial Ghost" is a remix of "Fabio's Ghost". Could be wrong though.
― Tim F, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:25 (sixteen years ago) link
Dego from 4 Hero produced some of the tracks on Timeless. I would think the Goldie remix of "Universal Love" was done with Playford though.
― Tim F, Thursday, 26 July 2007 12:26 (sixteen years ago) link
ahhhhhhh 'hand of the dead body'. found in my parents' shed.
― banriquit, Friday, 28 March 2008 15:52 (sixteen years ago) link
I actually like 'Sea of Tears' despite it's silly new age pretensions
― sam500, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 05:11 (fifteen years ago) link
Did anyone see him get classical on yo' ass on Maestro? His conducting totally knocked the judges for six, and only didn't win because they put the last round to a public vote. In retrospect, 'Timeless' reeks of classicism with its contrasting movements, that moody prelude to Inner City Life. So yeh, classic in more ways than one. Don't know the later albums, they weren't well received.
― Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 11:50 (fifteen years ago) link
a Saturnz Return poll might get 3 votes
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 12:19 (fifteen years ago) link
"Mother" ftw.
― Neil S, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 12:26 (fifteen years ago) link
DUD
Other people produce the music and he takes the credits, the milli vanilli of DnB if you like
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 12:59 (fifteen years ago) link
those poor poor producers, utterly powerless to stop this process of realising other people's bright ideas
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 13:18 (fifteen years ago) link
Ye cos 4 Hero had no bright ideas without the musical talent of goldies behind them AMIRITE
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 13:30 (fifteen years ago) link
It's all been downhill since "Making Up Again."
― Brother Belcher (Marcello Carlin), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 13:31 (fifteen years ago) link
My point was he was a very good front man with very little talent himself
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 13:32 (fifteen years ago) link
Quit mixing up Goldie with Ant and Dec.
― Brother Belcher (Marcello Carlin), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 13:37 (fifteen years ago) link
going by discogs the Rufige tracks where he is credited as sole producer are still among the best work with his name on xp
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 13:38 (fifteen years ago) link
Really ? http://www.discogs.com/release/1188
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 14:56 (fifteen years ago) link
Apparently. http://www.discogs.com/release/1228
co-producer on all other Rufige stuff and half of 'Timeless' - who's to say if that meant 50% input tho
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:05 (fifteen years ago) link
Around the time of timeless is when he started working with Rob Playford of 2 bad mice/owner of moving shadow fame.
Trust me i was around that scene enough between 1990-1996 to know if you put goldie in a studio on his own he wouldnt be able to do jackshit.
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:17 (fifteen years ago) link
by the same token the engineers and producers he worked with rarely had ideas like his tho. without his imagination and input the tracks wouldn't have happened by any other means (when you look at what else those people did at the time and how it sounded).
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:31 (fifteen years ago) link
Uh so what? That holds true for a lot of producers (esp. in the world of DNB). Needing someone else to be an engineer on your records /= has no talent and is not responsible for his own tracks.
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:33 (fifteen years ago) link
xp obv
I mean Goldie went seriously off the rails, but up to and including a bunch of Timeless everything released under his name or the Rufige Kru/Metalheadz pseudonyms was seriously untouchable. If nothing else he had fantastic taste.
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:35 (fifteen years ago) link
No it doesn't - it means he can afford to delegate the donkey work. No one has a problem with Raphael or Michelangelo *insert lame ninja turtle gag of your choice here*
― Brother Belcher (Marcello Carlin), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:37 (fifteen years ago) link
discogs not always reliable tho - 'I'll Be There For You' is maybe one of the better tracks on Saturnz Return but discogs says 'written by Dudley/McLaren/Horn' presumably just because of the 'Buffalo Gals' sample - no credit to J Majik who i thought co-produced that one with G
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:42 (fifteen years ago) link
Erm dunno how DnB is today but it was most done by doods in their bedrooms, goldies a mouth he can talk himself into alot of things i dont have a problem with that he's doing what he feels he needs to do to make some money/get his 5 mins of fame
But i find it funny people think he has talent, if you know the other producers involved you can tell what 'goldie' tracks they were involved with, maybe i should go visit moodymanns house and sit there while he's making music and say ye that sounds good.. naw dont like that make it go doo doo doobie doo, ye mate stick my name on there and ill give you $$$ cos pretty much what goldie did
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:51 (fifteen years ago) link
If Moodymann produced his best records while you were breathing heavily over his shoulder yeah I'd think you had some talent too.
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:53 (fifteen years ago) link
I mean it's telling that post-93 Playford did exactly what under his own name? Oh yeah exactly fuck all! If he was the real genius where are all these self-produced singles rife with his ideas that should have been flooding the market? Or did Goldie pay him not to release them?
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:56 (fifteen years ago) link
And don't get me wrong I love 2 Bad Mice and Playford, but pretending he was the idea man here and that Goldie just came along and slapped his name on some of his tracks is crazy stupid.
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 15:57 (fifteen years ago) link
But i find it funny people think he has talent
so who helped Goldie out in his bedroom with the Ghosts EP? apart from Kemistry maybe (not much of a producer herself tho afaik). Malice In Wonderland was just him and an engineer too - still love 'Vanilla'.
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:01 (fifteen years ago) link
He was never in his bedroom, he started hanging out witht he reinforced crew back in the hardcore days when they were hot(who were more than just marc and dego back then) your crazy if you think goldie came up with the timestrech drums on terminator, most likely he was sitting there when the RF guys were messing about in the studio & went nuts over it
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:07 (fifteen years ago) link
I also saw Rufiage cru live in 1992 it was the reinforced guys behind keeyboards and goldie chatting shit on the mic between tracks
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:09 (fifteen years ago) link
wait, so who won Maestro????
― Black Seinfeld (HI DERE), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:14 (fifteen years ago) link
While we're at it we mite as well say In Utero was by Steve Albini, Nirvana were just playing the instruments
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:19 (fifteen years ago) link
"I also saw Rufiage cru live in 1992 it was the reinforced guys behind keeyboards and goldie chatting shit on the mic between tracks"
Seeing acts like this "live" probably not best indicator for how music was actually being made.
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:19 (fifteen years ago) link
"most likely he was sitting there when the RF guys were messing about in the studio & went nuts over it"
And they just let him release it cuz. . . oh yeah he bribed them with money he would get from the record deal he would sign because he released "Terminator", etc. What nonsense.
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:21 (fifteen years ago) link
i saw Goldie live a few years later and by then he'd worked out that he should stand behind a Korg and press a few things on it. boy was we fooled.
but again, why is Goldie the only person credited on the Ghosts EP?
and if he's so incapable why did these mysterious Reinforced guys tolerate his inclusion on RK credits? the pre-Timeless stuff isn't particularly well executed and is more about dope ideas
ah good, this explains it all. cheers.
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:22 (fifteen years ago) link
Why isnt goldie credited for any of timeless according to this
http://www.discogs.com/release/11681
You got to remember before timeless these where all small scale releases not some big label thing, people tend not to put their real names on the records and such
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:35 (fifteen years ago) link
Suggest Ban Permalink― Alex in SF, Tuesday, December 2, 2008 4:21 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark
More like cos they were mates, helping a brother out, or most likely just to shut him up doods got a mouth on him
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:38 (fifteen years ago) link
Suggest Ban Permalink― Alex in SF, Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:56 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark
Well same could be said for goldie, theres not one track he's done where no one else is involved
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:45 (fifteen years ago) link
I believe this should say 'producer: Goldie unless otherwise stated' because there's no producer credit for tracks 5, 7 and 8. i'm surprised Playford is down as Producer for the rest and it's not 'Goldie, Playford' - suggests Goldie did nothing at all on a lot of Timeless but that makes no sense to anyone and would be inconsistent with other knowledge. Producer as term is quite nebulous here anyway - what exactly did Playford do as producer on Timeless himself? play keyboards until the hooks, melodies etc. came about? come up with those in his own head before playing them? How much was Goldie directing Playford ("need bass sound to be like this...yeah drums like that but twist them up more...")? maybe as much as Playford would've been saying "great idea, but i know what would make it sound better" and so on.
this is pathetic
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:51 (fifteen years ago) link
"Well same could be said for goldie, theres not one track he's done where no one else is involved"
The difference if that I'm not claiming that Rob Playford is a talentless hack.
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:52 (fifteen years ago) link
"Why isnt goldie credited for any of timeless according to this"
Uh cuz it's a user edited Discogs page maybe?
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:54 (fifteen years ago) link
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, December 2, 2008 4:22 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, December 2, 2008 4:54 PM (24 seconds ago) Bookmark
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:55 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah see we are two different. I know that's tough for you to figure out.
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:56 (fifteen years ago) link
maybe so but then i'm surprised people have done it for Darkrider but not Ghosts (xp)
the superior double CD version needs production credits added
― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, 2 December 2008 16:56 (fifteen years ago) link
Suggest Ban Permalink― GSOHSHIT (blueski), Tuesday, December 2, 2008 4:56 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
Suggest Ban Permalink― sam500, Thursday, July 26, 2007 1:18 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark
― X-101, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 17:01 (fifteen years ago) link
Is there a reason why you are c/p'ing other folks posts?
― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 2 December 2008 17:08 (fifteen years ago) link
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/22/article-0-0BB676D9000005DC-530_634x582.jpg
― mizzell, Friday, 22 October 2010 18:16 (thirteen years ago) link
he looks more and more like a jim henson creation as he ages.
― strongohulkingtonsghost, Friday, 22 October 2010 18:19 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.residentadvisor.net/dj/goldie/biography
― the late great, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 00:15 (nine years ago) link
http://mixmag.net/read/goldie-says-he-wants-to-melt-his-mbe-in-protest-of-fabrics-closure-news
― the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Thursday, 8 September 2016 14:00 (seven years ago) link
so until one of his fave nightclubs got closed down he thought the honours system was all good, fucking idiot.
― calzino, Thursday, 8 September 2016 14:28 (seven years ago) link
I'd actually forgotten that he had an MBE!
― the hair - it's lost its energy (Turrican), Thursday, 8 September 2016 14:31 (seven years ago) link
https://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=38204
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LavMaVxXjs
― groovypanda, Friday, 17 February 2017 10:41 (seven years ago) link
yeah, i could have an album of that.
― mark e, Friday, 17 February 2017 11:46 (seven years ago) link
Webchat on Guardian - note the first two questions have that same old scepticism regarding Goldie's credentials wrt production.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/live/2015/may/11/goldie-webchat-timeless-heritage-orchestra?page=with:block-55534498e4b01c8d6c261772#liveblog-navigation
― nashwan, Thursday, 25 May 2017 14:09 (six years ago) link
Didn't know most of this (then again, I've only listened to Timeless):
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/aug/30/goldie-saturnz-return-ended-one-label-execs-career
― pomenitul, Friday, 30 August 2019 09:28 (four years ago) link
still think the failure of SR was the marketing of it.the label should have released the second disc as the core album, and made the first disc a 'free ambient' album, as was all the rage back then.
― mark e, Friday, 30 August 2019 09:46 (four years ago) link
but yeah, good article.i never made the connection between that scene in Kill your Friends, and Goldie ... also, the best thing about SR was the mini lp/EP, of remixes, Ring of Saturn.
― mark e, Friday, 30 August 2019 09:52 (four years ago) link
Saturnz Return has a small handful of worthwhile tracks. I'll Be There For You, Believe and Dragonfly are all good. The rest of it is an object lesson in what happens when an artist gets big and suddenly nobody ever says no to him or her.
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Friday, 30 August 2019 11:45 (four years ago) link
That article is entertaining, but the idea that Saturnz Return is today seen as some sort of misunderstood classic is absurd. Almost everybody think it's a turkey.
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Friday, 30 August 2019 12:00 (four years ago) link
I just defended it (again) on ILX earlier this week! I honestly like it. Draw whatever conclusions you must about my taste in general.
― McGrief the Crying Dog (Old Lunch), Friday, 30 August 2019 12:07 (four years ago) link
There's always one . . . ;-)
I'm listening to Goldie's last album on YouTube at this very moment. I wasn't aware it existed until 30 minutes ago. It came out in 2017, apparently. Some interesting bits here and there, but it's no Timeless.
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Friday, 30 August 2019 12:15 (four years ago) link
I really like Mother. In fact it's the only bit of SR I've listened to recently. On a long drive it seemed to make perfect sense. Also, mark e otm.
― Ned Trifle X, Friday, 30 August 2019 12:55 (four years ago) link
'Mother' is better than any hourlong song has any right to be.
― McGrief the Crying Dog (Old Lunch), Friday, 30 August 2019 13:01 (four years ago) link
Yeah, I listen to a lot of very long ambient(y) tracks that do far less so something like this is a stroll in the park really, this has got at least twenty minutes of drums!
― Ned Trifle X, Friday, 30 August 2019 13:03 (four years ago) link
The Bowie thing afterwards is a bit of a waste of time tho.
― Ned Trifle X, Friday, 30 August 2019 13:05 (four years ago) link
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0087/6193/3920/files/IST-Radio-11_2048x.gif
https://soundcloud.com/stussy/goldie-light-mix-ist-radio-011
https://soundcloud.com/stussy/goldie-dark-mix-ist-radio-012
― the late great, Friday, 7 August 2020 17:16 (three years ago) link