― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 1 August 2003 09:51 (twenty years ago) link
(don't interrupt the sorrow btw)
― gaz (gaz), Friday, 1 August 2003 10:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 1 August 2003 10:06 (twenty years ago) link
hejira is harsher. more straightforward somehow. more metaphor. amelia.
ah, where's my head at?
― gaz (gaz), Friday, 1 August 2003 10:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 1 August 2003 13:52 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Friday, 1 August 2003 13:54 (twenty years ago) link
It's not perfect. "Furry Sings the Blues" always sounded like a retread to me--the one ringer. But "Amelia," yes--this might be her best song. "Song for Sharon" also is beautiful.
Joni Mitchell has so many qualities (and so much myth) that are likely to set alarm bells ringing in ILMs heads--including mine-- but she is incredible, just totally incredible.
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:10 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:12 (twenty years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:12 (twenty years ago) link
Ladies of the Canyon and Blue jockey for second.
― Jamie Conway (Jamie Conway), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:13 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:15 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:18 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:19 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:19 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:21 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:24 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:26 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:30 (twenty years ago) link
I'll defend Mingus, even though I haven't listened to it for over a year. It takes a few hundred listens to sink in, but from the first it's under your skin... I always found it quite unsettling, especially The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey. Apart from The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines, which is hella fun.
― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 1 August 2003 14:35 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 15:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 1 August 2003 15:46 (twenty years ago) link
I love Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, but it is a huge sprawl with uncomfortable pockets (I don't like side 3). But the title track is one of the most amazing things she's ever done, spinning endless circles. 'Cotton Avenue' is the Joni that Prince really cribbed from, and the 'Veils' ending is heartrending. 'Paprika Plains' is a grower, the way the orchestral arrangements sprout around what sounds like a completely improvised piano solo is very unique.
The original vinyl version of Don Juan had Sides 1 and 4 on one disc, Sides 2 and 3 on the other, and this made a lot of sense actually... Try programming the CD version 1-2-3-8-9-10 for the pop version of the album, with occasional recourse to track 4 for 'Paprika', but that's not a piece for casual listening.
'Mingus' is crazy messed up flawed. The glossy fuzak jazz arrangements just take over almost completely, but there are good things buried in there. That last track on side 1 with the wolves howling and Joni mercilessly thwacking her guitar is not normal music.
I like the late 70's music better than the early 70's stuff (though 'Blue' is wonderful). She was savaged for going jazz (people just not comfortable with the blackface Joni on the inner sleeve of Don Juan, with the word balloon saying 'Mooslems! Mooooslems, heh heh heh') but I think those are her best records.
― jl (Jon L), Friday, 1 August 2003 16:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Jamie Conway (Jamie Conway), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:27 (twenty years ago) link
the problem is that those things broke down really easy and often scratched up the records, so no one uses them anymore.
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:29 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 1 August 2003 17:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Paul (scifisoul), Friday, 1 August 2003 18:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Saturday, 2 August 2003 07:50 (twenty years ago) link
Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is lengthy, but contains tons of fantastic material, and is one of my favorites. Mingus has some great moments, but overall the band sound is kind of slick and I dont really go back to it much. Travelogue to me is Joni's first real misstep. Many of the reinterpretations are less than compelling, and worst of all the string arrangements (just like the ones on Both Sides Now) are often lousy, going for a surprising amout of uncalled for overstatement. Since Joni has always had exquisite taste in arrangements and musicians, this really comes as a disappointment.
― Sean (Sean), Saturday, 2 August 2003 08:57 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Saturday, 2 August 2003 08:59 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Saturday, 2 August 2003 09:03 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Saturday, 2 August 2003 16:52 (twenty years ago) link
― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 3 August 2003 12:58 (twenty years ago) link
(must get m'self Hejira, haven't heard it in a fkn looong time)
― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Sunday, 3 August 2003 13:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Sean (Sean), Sunday, 3 August 2003 17:01 (twenty years ago) link
'Court and Spark' is the commercial peak, it's very accomplished and I love 'Free Man In Paris', but the four albums that followed are a lot more interesting (to me). It's as if that album's huge success finally gave her the confidence to move forward.
― jl (Jon L), Sunday, 3 August 2003 21:22 (twenty years ago) link
The one song on Summer Lawns which I feel doesn't fit in is Sweet Bird, actually. The Jungle Line ties in with the bohemian, experimental, drunk-on-its-own-creativity mood which colours most of the album, but Sweet Bird is this weirdly misplaced conventional folk strum. In comparison to everything else on the album, it also has a piss-weak tune. Inspired by this thread, I'm listening to it again though... how fucking good is Harry's House/Centrepiece!
― The Lex (The Lex), Sunday, 3 August 2003 22:13 (twenty years ago) link
You 'n' me we're like America 'n' RussiaWe're always keeping scoreWe're always balancing the powerAnd that can get to be a cold cold warWe gotta hold ourselves a peace talkIn some neutral cafeYou'll lay down your sneakin' round the townAnd I'll lay down the highway
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 4 August 2003 01:15 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 4 August 2003 01:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 4 August 2003 01:33 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 4 August 2003 01:59 (twenty years ago) link
Oh, big big points for the Wolf That Lives In Lindsay.
Maybe Hejira has to take the cake. I'm simply unable to say a bad word about it. Always a contender for my favoruite album ever.
― derrick (derrick), Monday, 4 August 2003 05:31 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 4 August 2003 05:43 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 4 August 2003 05:50 (twenty years ago) link
big big big points. I wish the last two minutes of that lasted for an hour.
― jl (Jon L), Monday, 4 August 2003 05:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 4 August 2003 06:03 (twenty years ago) link
― amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 4 August 2003 06:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Monday, 4 August 2003 06:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 4 August 2003 07:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Orbit (Orbit), Monday, 4 August 2003 22:58 (twenty years ago) link
― derrick (derrick), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 01:24 (twenty years ago) link
sorry: the jungle line
― alex in mainhattan, Friday, 5 October 2007 19:40 (sixteen years ago) link
anybody heard of this before? http://www.bigozine2.com/archive/ARrarities07/ARjmseeding.html i haven't listened yet, but it seems like a good thing. still curious about that herbie hancock thing. have heard samples and it sounds pretty good. there's a danger of it sucking though, no doubt about it -- i recently heard that Gershwin's World CD Herbie did a few years back and ehhhhhh ... i understand that having big name guest stars on your record means it'll sell a bajillion more copies, but still ...
― tylerw, Thursday, 25 October 2007 14:57 (sixteen years ago) link
I like the Herbie Hancock album. I think the guest stars are fairly understated, and Tina Turner's rendition of "Edith and the Kingpin" is pretty fantastic actually.
― jaymc, Thursday, 25 October 2007 15:09 (sixteen years ago) link
Yes, what I've heard from that album was actually very good. Need to pick it up.
― baaderonixx, Thursday, 25 October 2007 15:13 (sixteen years ago) link
Awesome link by the way. Thanks! Can't wait to hear these.
― baaderonixx, Thursday, 25 October 2007 15:19 (sixteen years ago) link
Wow - the guitar demo for Harry's House is awesome.
― baaderonixx, Thursday, 25 October 2007 16:06 (sixteen years ago) link
So... Whatever happened to those remasters?
― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 8 January 2008 12:11 (sixteen years ago) link
they happened already dude
― winston, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 00:44 (sixteen years ago) link
[reads upthread]
oops i thought you meant the remasters from 2 years ago or whatever
― winston, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 00:47 (sixteen years ago) link
They are still nowhere to be seen around here. Other than up to "For The Roses" that is.
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 01:18 (sixteen years ago) link
both of these are so good. long time coming. i feel like those last two tracks on 'hejira' bring it down a notch. too cute. need more digesting time though. i love joni right now, probably too much.
― strgn, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 07:00 (fifteen years ago) link
but i'm thinking 'hejira' ftw
― strgn, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 07:21 (fifteen years ago) link
"Refuge of the Roads" is cute?
― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 07:45 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah. not 'cute,' but not 'black crow,' you know? cute.
― strgn, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 07:48 (fifteen years ago) link
1+ fretless bass 1- chords, song
― strgn, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 07:49 (fifteen years ago) link
1++++ fretless bass.
― strgn, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 07:50 (fifteen years ago) link
these are the clouds of michaealangelo muscular with darts
fuck this, this is no contest, i'm just loving joni more and more.
― strgn, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 07:54 (fifteen years ago) link
For me, 'Refuge' is both the essence of the album and its natural conclusion.
I mean:
In a highway service station Over the month of June Was a photograph of the earth Taken coming back from the moon And you couldn't see a city On that marbled bowling ball Or a forest or a highway Or me here least of all You couldn't see these cold water restrooms Or this baggage overload Westbound and rolling taking refuge in the roads
― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 08:10 (fifteen years ago) link
Weird - listened to "A Song for Sharon" this morning. I don't know anyone who can write these melodies for these polysyllables, or have the inspiration to use high-pitched whoops for emphasis.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 11:45 (fifteen years ago) link
I love the way those lines build up to "Or me here least of all..."
It's amazing how many self-puncturing references the album has to Joni's own self-absorption.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 11:57 (fifteen years ago) link
on that topic, a pretty interesting background note on that song (and teh overall topic of self-absorption): http://jonimitchell.com/research/g_entry.cfm?id=16
― baaderonixx, Wednesday, 23 July 2008 12:24 (fifteen years ago) link
That last paragraph from 'Refuge' I alread quoted ALWAYS slays me.
― baaderonixx, Thursday, 13 November 2008 10:29 (fifteen years ago) link
Fabulous.
― Tim F, Thursday, 13 November 2008 10:33 (fifteen years ago) link
In case someone is interested in hearing the Travelogue version
― baaderonixx, Thursday, 13 November 2008 13:50 (fifteen years ago) link
no, thanks. when she released travelogue for me she lost the last bit of credibility she had. what a syrupy piece of overproduced crap.
― alex in mainhattan, Thursday, 13 November 2008 13:57 (fifteen years ago) link
travelogue = killing your own babies.
― alex in mainhattan, Thursday, 13 November 2008 13:59 (fifteen years ago) link
I don't mind the version you've linked baaderonixx, but I don't know if that sort of treatment can do much for Hejira songs. Whereas I love the similar treatments of "Both Sides Now" and "A Case Of You" that she did previously.
― Tim F, Thursday, 13 November 2008 14:03 (fifteen years ago) link
or travelogue = flooding your kittens in strings.
― alex in mainhattan, Thursday, 13 November 2008 14:06 (fifteen years ago) link
I still have very mixed feelinsg re. Travelogue. Often I feel that it's very close to being brilliant, the nearly-noirish vibe, the husky late night voice ... but it kinda falls short and ends up being, yes, sirupy and "grown up".
― baaderonixx, Thursday, 13 November 2008 14:17 (fifteen years ago) link
wtf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kins8_pA9M4
― saaberonixx (baaderonixx), Monday, 22 February 2010 21:56 (fourteen years ago) link
well that was random.
he pretty much follows the original arrangement.
― by another name (amateurist), Tuesday, 23 February 2010 00:46 (fourteen years ago) link
She does that, though, she gets you used to being uncomfortable, to the point of gaining a taste for it. The first time I played myself her Mingus album, the group chorus on 'boogeyman' was so howlingly contrived I felt myself trying to draw a line, "no no no, this is objectively bad, I musn't follow her here..." A day later, sure enough, the verse melody had hooked itself in my head... listening to these records can be complicated.
i find some of lou reed's records to work in a similar fashion
― by another name (amateurist), Tuesday, 6 April 2010 08:43 (fourteen years ago) link
otm
― hobbes, Tuesday, 6 April 2010 08:58 (fourteen years ago) link
loving this part lately
I pulled off into a forestCrickets clicking in the fernsLike a wheel of fortuneI heard my fate turn turn turnAnd I went running down a white sand roadI was running like a white-assed deerRunning to lose the blues
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Thursday, 25 November 2010 11:00 (thirteen years ago) link
― alex in mainhattan, Thursday, November 13, 2008 8:59 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark
Listen again it's actually awesome
― PEAVEY Ó))) (Ówen P.), Thursday, 25 November 2010 17:30 (thirteen years ago) link
poppy poisonpoppy tourniquetit sliiiithers away on brass like
mouth
piece
spit
― An adult guest rapper (donna rouge), Saturday, 19 March 2011 23:56 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^ next level rhymes
― Tim F, Sunday, 20 March 2011 09:59 (thirteen years ago) link
i've been listening to Hejira a lot, lately, and when it finishes or half-way through i think about listening to HOSL, but my copy's far away, and now Hejira is starting to sound to me like the desire to listen to HOSL.
this thread is such a delight.
I'll defend Mingus, even though I haven't listened to it for over a year. It takes a few hundred listens to sink in, but from the first it's under your skin... I always found it quite unsettling, especially The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey. Apart from The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines, which is hella fun.― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, August 1, 2003 2:35 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark
― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, August 1, 2003 2:35 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark
it takes a few hundred listens to sink in! <3
― c sharp major, Sunday, 20 March 2011 11:38 (thirteen years ago) link
this was a good thread!
i keep venturing tentatively into 80s and 90s joni, then retreat. why? it's not like the albums are that bad, just kind of hit and miss.
― by another name (amateurist), Thursday, 4 August 2011 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
I feel a Joni period coming my way. Good weather and mild depression always put me in the mood for Hejira & Hissing
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 14:50 (twelve years ago) link
I've spent all day listening to Hejira -- and I have to say, I absolutely love that it's pretty much 90% guitars and fretless bass sloshing around with her singing these free flowing melodies over the top which perfectly complement the road theme. Notwithstanding "Blue Motel Room," these songs almost entirely feel of a piece. Only "Shades of Scarlet Conquering" has really captivated me from HOSL by comparison, but I'm willing to give it time.
Interesting how no one has mentioned Shadows and Light -- the live record from this era that features Metheny, Jaco, Don Alias and Michael Brecker, I believe. Is it just that her live performances coudn't match the atmosphere of the originals?
― Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 31 January 2013 04:20 (eleven years ago) link
remember watching the video version of shadows and light that showed up on cable a lot when i was a kid. really dug it tho i didn't know anything about joni at the time
― buzza, Thursday, 31 January 2013 04:27 (eleven years ago) link
― Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 31 January 2013 4:20 AM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This, I think. There's very few stylistic variations on Shadows and Light that I think actually improve the originals.
In general I tend to think that Joni is a much better arranger than improviser, and her efforts to recreate the spontaneity of live jazz don't really win me over (one reason why I find HOSL much better than DJRD). The pristine perfectionism of HOSL and Hejira gets lost a bit on Shadows and Light, I find.
― Tim F, Thursday, 31 January 2013 05:05 (eleven years ago) link
shadows and light to me sounds more like a fusion record, the essence of joni watered down. hejira is an album with a very strong flow which shadow and light obviously isn't as there is a mix of songs from different albums on it. miles of aisles is her best live album i think but that was before hejira. i really like her banter and intros to the songs on that one.
― miesepeter (alex in mainhattan), Thursday, 31 January 2013 05:55 (eleven years ago) link
Hejira is def the way I'm getting into Joni as performer after long being a fan of her as songwriter
― buzza, Thursday, 31 January 2013 06:07 (eleven years ago) link
I spent a lot of this weekend listening to Shadows and Light in the car...and it's started to win me over. The bass n' brushes version of "The Dry Cleaner from Des Moines" in particular is less over-produced than the Mingus version and just as lithe.
In fairness, a big piece of my enjoyment of this is that I'm a Metheny fan -- and Shadows and Light is kind of a dream lineup in some ways (Joni, Metheny, Mays, Jaco, Don Alias, and Michael Brecker). When Metheny breaks out a typically billowy solo on "In France..." it just feels natural. There are moments on this record that just ebb back and forth between Joni's schtick (which admittedly isn't that different than her studio versions) and something off of Metheny's live Travels album.
If anything, it's a little disappointing there isn't more of Metheny on this (Brecker is the dominant soloist, which isn't altogether a bad thing). He only has a handful of solos (tho he has one cut all to himself) and Mays is mixed down really low. More of Metheny accompanying Joni on the Hejira material in particular (which itself sounded like a first- or second-cousin of his debut w Jaco, Bright-Sized Life) would have been interesting to hear. Part of me wonders if he was holding back a bit given that he wasn't the star Joni was in 1979 (tho in jazz and pop circles, he pretty much would be just two years later).
― Naive Teen Idol, Sunday, 3 February 2013 04:19 (eleven years ago) link
been obsessed (again) w/ "boho dance" lately. seems like the kind of song that would just be flattened by a politically-correct hot take (just like a lot of "hissing"), since the worldviews the song explores are not really there to be accepted or dismissed, since what the song best expresses is ambivalence--both that of the narrator and the (male?) hipster she's describing. the delicacy with which joni describes those worldviews is rather astonishing, isn't it? also the way the distinction between the worldviews is explored through subtly gendered metaphors ("The cleaner's press was in my jeans/And any eye for detail/Caught a little lace along the seams"). later the clothing metaphor is inverted to suggest the opposite ("A camera pans the cocktail hour/Behind a blind of potted palms/And finds a lady in a Paris dress/With runs in her nylons"). in other words, she doesn't belong completely in either milieu. this concludes with the "stricken from your uniform" and "not mine, these glamour gowns" phrases.
also, "another hard-time band/with negro affectations" is basically blueshammer, right?
― wizzz! (amateurist), Tuesday, 3 May 2016 01:32 (eight years ago) link
also if you ever want to be reminded what an extraordinary arranger joni was, listen to the demo of "boho dance" (on the "seeding of summer lawns" boot) and compare it to the finish product. it was always a great song, but the full arrangement contributes so much, adds greatly to the sense of wistful ambivalence.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Tuesday, 3 May 2016 01:35 (eight years ago) link
one last thought -- joni mitchell and paul simon seem to be the two late-60s singer-songwriters who quickly outgrew the folk template of their earlier work and sought out, above all, new textural and rhythmic influences. joni wasn't as determinedly eclectic as simon, but i think it's fair to say that her rhythmic sense is even more sophisticated.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Tuesday, 3 May 2016 01:36 (eight years ago) link
I've been carrying the studio version of this tune in my phone for a few weeks. I love this version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6d2RG2Rl64
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 3 May 2016 02:10 (eight years ago) link