― Rich Handel, Friday, 5 December 2003 03:13 (twenty years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 5 December 2003 03:20 (twenty years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 5 December 2003 03:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Rich Handel, Friday, 5 December 2003 03:55 (twenty years ago) link
I like Meshuggah more in theory than I do in practice. They are obviously a 'cool' band, they do very interesting stuff, but I rarely listen to their records. That said, I own them all, so that says something.
― roger adultery, Friday, 5 December 2003 04:08 (twenty years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 5 December 2003 04:17 (twenty years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 5 December 2003 04:20 (twenty years ago) link
Human RemainsDeadguyKatakylsmCryptopsySpiral ArchitectWatchtowerDeathCynic
- Alan
― Alan Conceicao, Friday, 5 December 2003 04:25 (twenty years ago) link
A lot of people don't like Pelican because of their slow, methodical style, but I rather dig it. I would go so far to say that it's sexy stuff.
― SMizek, Friday, 5 December 2003 06:34 (twenty years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 5 December 2003 06:39 (twenty years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 5 December 2003 06:40 (twenty years ago) link
i dig meshuggah alright, and tend to think that they helped pave a direction that rebirthed a more mathy metal, but roger adultery is OTM about mastodon... i enjoy mastodon's records much more.
also, points to the dillinger escape plan mentions... converge is definitely worth mentioning in this discussion.
i'll have to pick up pig destroyer.m.
― msp, Friday, 5 December 2003 07:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 5 December 2003 08:47 (twenty years ago) link
I do agree that Mastodon transcend everything Meshuggah is supposed to be. But, Mastodon is in a class of its own.
― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 5 December 2003 08:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Adrian (Adrian Langston), Friday, 5 December 2003 11:10 (twenty years ago) link
― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Friday, 5 December 2003 11:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Rich Handel, Friday, 5 December 2003 15:37 (twenty years ago) link
Nothing is Meshuggah's best album because it's so totally claustrophobic and stifling - sucks the air right out of the room, and there's really no way you can move to it. You just have to sit there and take it.
― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Friday, 5 December 2003 16:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Rich Handel, Friday, 5 December 2003 17:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 6 December 2003 01:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Saturday, 6 December 2003 17:09 (twenty years ago) link
― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 6 December 2003 17:12 (twenty years ago) link
― 57 7th (calstars), Thursday, 27 May 2004 17:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 12:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― another different steve, Saturday, 22 April 2006 10:44 (seventeen years ago) link
Same with Opeth.
― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Saturday, 22 April 2006 13:45 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dominique (dleone), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:04 (seventeen years ago) link
I think one thing I liked about Isis, Botch and Mastodon is that they bury the vocals a bit more underneath the guitars and drums than some of these bands. The crazy ass drumming and guitar playing is the best part of this kind music anyway.
I wish more metal bands would loose the cookie cutter screamer and just be instrumental. No matter how rocking the guitar and drums might be, I can't get into it if the vocals are really annoying.
― Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 22 April 2006 18:02 (seventeen years ago) link
obZen leaked
― Dominique, Friday, 1 February 2008 07:12 (sixteen years ago) link
it leaked a week or two ago... at least on the blogs.
― GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Friday, 1 February 2008 07:59 (sixteen years ago) link
Heard one new song.
It slayed. Can't wait for the record.
― Marty Innerlogic, Friday, 1 February 2008 18:17 (sixteen years ago) link
it's really good.
closest in spirit to Chaosphere, i'd say.
― latebloomer, Friday, 1 February 2008 18:58 (sixteen years ago) link
I really like want to like these guys but when I saw them live, their stage volume was really quiet, and their singer did this weird monkey dance that was a big turnoff...
I still think Chaosphere is out of control heavy and Catch-33 is top notch concept metal.
― Nate Carson, Saturday, 2 February 2008 01:49 (sixteen years ago) link
are you sure you weren't seeing the stone roses? it's a common mistake.
― GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Saturday, 2 February 2008 11:32 (sixteen years ago) link
the "video" for "New Millennium Cyanide Christ"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5A0q63_gbo
― latebloomer, Saturday, 2 February 2008 20:30 (sixteen years ago) link
Mastodon transcend math metal, they are easily the most inventive and important metal band playing today (along with Lamb of God and Pig Destroyer).
LOL, that's one of the RONGest things ever.
Lamb of God are functional, but 'important'? meh.
I do quite like Mastodon but....I dunno about most inventive.
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Saturday, 2 February 2008 23:57 (sixteen years ago) link
Meshuggah are a huge muthafucking classic.
Their clever use of polyrhythms and the Holdworth-inspired leads are just fucking incredible.
my first experience with them was opening for Slayer on Slayer's 1999 stateside tour....I've never enjoyed an opening act so much in my life (and arguably they outdid Slayer that night).
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Saturday, 2 February 2008 23:58 (sixteen years ago) link
Meshuggah = Pantera - hooks + better musicians
― Siegbran, Sunday, 3 February 2008 13:39 (sixteen years ago) link
I've often heard that said, especially around 1999 when they started to gain popularity, but I often felt that was a superficial comparison that the record labels used to get people in the States to listen to them. They also did the same thing with The Haunted (comparisons to Slayer when really the similarities were passing at best).
I mean, perhaps in the vocal style (although I find Jens Kidman's voice more aesthetically pleasing), but that's about it. I realize you said "minus hooks", but Meshuggah's riffs are typically percussive power chord riffs with tinges of jazz (at least up until Destroy Erase Improve), whereas Pantera stuck to 4/4 riffs for the most part. The defining pieces of Meshuggah are worlds apart from Pantera, especially the leads.
Meshuggah seem more influenced by the thrash genre as a collective whole, which they then spliced with progressive metal. I think comparing them to Pantera is giving Pantera too much credit. Granted, I liked Cowboys through Far Beyond (never heard the pre-Cowboys albums in full), but sonically I wouldn't make the comparison.
Besides, everyone knows Pantera ripped off Exhorder anyway :)
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Sunday, 3 February 2008 15:20 (sixteen years ago) link
oh, and...
Meshuggah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pantera
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Sunday, 3 February 2008 15:22 (sixteen years ago) link
Enslaved >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Meshuggah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pantera
― Nate Carson, Monday, 4 February 2008 10:02 (sixteen years ago) link
Aurora Borealis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bachman Turner Overdrive>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Eiffel Tower>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>E. Coli>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>A rabid possum>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Enslaved >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Meshuggah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pantera>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this thread
― latebloomer, Monday, 4 February 2008 12:13 (sixteen years ago) link
Anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pantera
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 4 February 2008 16:26 (sixteen years ago) link
even crazy town?
― GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Monday, 4 February 2008 17:16 (sixteen years ago) link
HAHA
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 00:05 (sixteen years ago) link
none of the bands mentioned sound anything like Meshuggah
― latebloomer, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 00:09 (sixteen years ago) link
KINGSTON TRIO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MESHUGGAH
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 00:31 (sixteen years ago) link
anyway i like this song which surprises me because i don't really like meshuggah. are they selling out or something?
― a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Friday, 26 August 2016 00:51 (seven years ago) link
it's not terribly different from the style they played on their last album
― Neanderthal, Friday, 26 August 2016 00:52 (seven years ago) link
i haven't heard it but i hated "obzen". so koloss was a significant departure from that?
― a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Friday, 26 August 2016 00:54 (seven years ago) link
I wouldn't say "significant", it was more a return to some of the more linear (relatively speaking) structures they had back on Destroy Erase Improve, I would say.
― Neanderthal, Friday, 26 August 2016 00:56 (seven years ago) link
albeit without so many clean jazz riffs naturally
"nothing" and "obzen" just sound like counting exercises to me. i'd rather listen to "clapping music".
― a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Friday, 26 August 2016 01:03 (seven years ago) link
I like both but I understand where you're coming from. they are a bit more math-y in their structure.
― Neanderthal, Friday, 26 August 2016 01:08 (seven years ago) link
i'm not sure i understand where i'm coming from! i like secret chiefs 3's "perichoresis" which is super-mathy. but meshuggah... i just can't go for their older stuff.
― a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Friday, 26 August 2016 01:10 (seven years ago) link
Nothing and Obzen were harder for a long-time fan like me to get into (initially), because of the way they'd often take a single note and turn it into a percussive pattern, rather than the heavy, 'battering ram' approach they used to use. To be fair, Chaosphere was equally math-y in terms of the rhythm, and how the songs seemed to be devoid of traditional song structure (which DEI actually had), but it was a really heavy album too, with chugging power chords, and after that album, they kind of went more math-proggy and de-intensified their songs a bit (although "Bleed", from Obzen, is outright insane).
Catch 33 also was panned by a lot of fans too. I can't even remember much of that album.
― Neanderthal, Friday, 26 August 2016 01:12 (seven years ago) link
I really only liked Meshuggah on Nothing, I, and Catch33. Saw them live in 2005 and enjoyed it. But obZen sounded like they'd spent way too much time listening to Tool, and I can't even remember what Koloss sounded like now - I played it once, shrugged, and moved on. I haven't even listened to the three records I liked in years.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Friday, 26 August 2016 01:56 (seven years ago) link
Koloss was a MONSTER record and actually kinda catchy. New track sounds promising and like playing live, together, for a change put a little more breath and swing into it.
Meshuggah = Pantera - honesty & fun
Me, I think Meshuggah is way more fun than the endless spiral up their own asses Pantera took after Vulgar Display, but if you're more into Ed Hardy metal tha's cool bro.
― Hamilton, Joe Frank & Two-Thirds of Asphyx (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Friday, 26 August 2016 08:32 (seven years ago) link
the endless spiral up their own asses Pantera took after Vulgar Display
Pantera's final album, Reinventing the Steel, is their best.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Friday, 26 August 2016 10:58 (seven years ago) link
I'm sure that is a thing you believe.
― Hamilton, Joe Frank & Two-Thirds of Asphyx (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Friday, 26 August 2016 13:06 (seven years ago) link
Meshuggah are one of those bands that are easy to burn out on. I have three of their albums and I don't feel any great need to get any more - I listened to a couple of tracks from the last one and decided I couldn't really be arsed with it. Will probably listen to the new one and see if it does anything for me.
I'm not really sure what Pantera have to do with anything tbh.
― ultros ultros-ghali, Friday, 26 August 2016 13:06 (seven years ago) link
Oh, and Nothing is probably my least favourite of the ones I have, it's pretty boring for the most part but Straws Pulled at Random is easily their best song for me.
― ultros ultros-ghali, Friday, 26 August 2016 13:09 (seven years ago) link
loving this new one. seems like an extension of Koloss, but this thing has a lot of atmosphere. not purely mathy, lots of moments w/ dissonance/odd chords.
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 8 October 2016 03:25 (seven years ago) link
Please tell me the guitar player wears those Simpsons slippers on stage too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPW0AWDmfJQ
― StanM, Saturday, 8 October 2016 07:57 (seven years ago) link
I've only listened once and it's great. I think Koloss is their best (for me, anyway) and this is maybe a single notch down. But I still have to let it grow on me.
― "raw buttin' these toilet seats" (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 8 October 2016 08:45 (seven years ago) link
(and dooope slippers too)
― "raw buttin' these toilet seats" (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 8 October 2016 08:46 (seven years ago) link
seeing them open the tour Monday (nwo that FL is still here).
one of the few bands I feel like it really matters not what their setlist is, it's always awesome.
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 8 October 2016 14:35 (seven years ago) link
I think DEI is still my fav but that's gonna be a hard one to unseat. Chaosphere is possibly second? they never made another one like that.
loving the Koloss/Violent direction tho. more atmospheric.
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 8 October 2016 14:36 (seven years ago) link
Meshuggah and Mastodon are nothing alike. But Mastodon could probably outplay Meshuggah if they wanted and thats what Meshuggah is famous for - impressive playing.― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Saturday, December 6, 2003 12:09 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
wtf lol
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 8 October 2016 14:43 (seven years ago) link
perhaps my favorite Kidman memory was Guitar Magazine, who liked to pretend they liked metal to be cool, mentioning Meshuggah as an up and comer, and citing go-to album "Destroy Your Race and Crew", and Jans wrote a really pissed off letter to the magazine that they printed asking them how pathetic it was that they couldn't get the name of their album right and bitching at them.
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 8 October 2016 14:48 (seven years ago) link
best show I've seen all year. here was the setlist:
http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/meshuggah/2016/house-of-blues-lake-buena-vista-fl-3bfd1000.html
new stuff sounds great live, but I think "Bleed", "Future Breed Machine", and "Stengah" were my favs of the night.
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 16 October 2016 00:02 (seven years ago) link
meshuggah are awesome but MAN imagine how much more awesome they would be if you could be 14 and using them to annoy your parents
― j., Wednesday, 19 October 2016 01:17 (seven years ago) link
Especially if your parents were straight-line metalheads. "Son, why don't you try listening to Carcass, THEY know how to write RIFFS."
― Lawsonomy Domine (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 01:41 (seven years ago) link
Lol i heard some 80s metal head tell a Meshuggah fan that they sucked cos they sounded like their "amps kept turning on and off"
― Neanderthal, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 03:29 (seven years ago) link
Hahaha
NOISEGATES BRO
― Lawsonomy Domine (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 20 October 2016 20:06 (seven years ago) link
feel like mosh pits could be difficult to coordinate to the music
― stank viola (Neanderthal), Thursday, 6 October 2022 04:41 (one year ago) link
Is this band the dominant metal act presently, surpassed by no other in terms of what the genre currently is, or has been at least for the past many many years? I went to see them Tuesday night with a friend who knows them well: I don't, only listened to Obzen the other day…
I haven't followed metal at all in 20 years, after having written about metal bands for RS, MTV news and other national outlets in the 90s and early 00s. But it seems to me that metal for the past twenty years has heeded the stated preferences of the bands, fans, everyone in the community and has become insular, dedicated to the purity of metal's ideals, and thus has retreated from the wider world. During the metal sellout era, everyone knew who Metallica was; now, only the dedicated metal community knows that this band is the state of the art; it's them and Ghost, and who else? Is there a metal bands that seems interested in engaging with the larger culture? It would seem to me that that ambition would not be tolerated in the community.
― veronica moser, Thursday, 14 December 2023 16:45 (three months ago) link
All I know about them is that they sold out a large venue here recently and I couldn’t believe they were so popular in 2023 (or ever)
― zacata, Thursday, 14 December 2023 16:46 (three months ago) link
Is there a metal bands that seems interested in engaging with the larger culture? It would seem to me that that ambition would not be tolerated in the community.
This is a narrative that is 20, if not 30 years out of date. There are no serious metal gatekeepers anymore; bands, journalists and fans who talk about "posers" or people/acts being "true" or "false" are always joking when they do it. Are certain types of metal niche interests, pursuing sounds that have no connection with pop music? Sure, but there are electronic genres that do that, too, and nobody expresses puzzlement. Metal is obscure in the way everything is obscure in a balkanized/atomized cultural environment. You make your record, a few hundred people hear it, and the world keeps turning. Every band is a cult band.
The metal bands that engage with the larger culture are bands that are never discussed on ILM: Disturbed, Avenged Sevenfold, the Pantera "reunion" tour, etc., etc. And if a band is as big as, say, Iron Maiden, they're not "engaging with the larger culture" — they are the larger culture. Metallica are not just a metal band, they're one of the 10 or so biggest bands in the world, full stop.
The more important question is, how was the show? I haven't paid much attention to Meshuggah in recent years and only saw them once myself, 20 years ago when they were touring in support of Catch Thirty33. But I bet they were good live. Jens Kidman's a great frontman.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Thursday, 14 December 2023 16:58 (three months ago) link
Meshuggah's rise, in addition to being deserved due to their quality, had a lot to do with good timing.
They were known in the underground around Destroy. Erase. Improve. but were more of a curiosity band, and didn't have as much growth outside of Sweden.
A few things helped their rapid ascent - for one, At the Gates 's Slaughter of the Soul, released the same year, lead to an explosion in interest (and downright fetishization of) the Gothenberg sound.
Obviously, Meshuggah have fuck all to do with that sound, but being FROM Sweden definitely helped you pop up on people's radars in the global metal community.
Secondly, being taken on tour with Slayer in the late 90s during the Chaosphere tour. Though this tour was small, House of Blues sized venues, it got them noticed by Slayer fans that didn't know them...like me.
Another is Pantera retiring. Yes, the two bands don't seem even remotely alike sonically, but Pantera was often used as a lazy comparison point back then largely due to the vocals, and the 'groove', so many Pantera fans took interest in them (citation: USEnet, alt.music.pantera)
Getting onto Ozzfest next helped them break into the second tier, but weirdly it would be years before they'd visit the US on a headlining tour. I remember seeing them open for Ministry as a desperate way of seeing them. They did do a headlining leg in 2009 but it only reached limited cities.
I feel like Obzen (and "Bleed") kind of reignited their career as although I know unperson appreciates this era, the Catch Thirty Three era got a cool reception from fans who thought it too far removed from their strengths. (I like it).
Once they started regularly headline touring worldwide that was basically game over. It's crazy though that I saw them at the same venue in 2013 and 2023 and the first show wasn't even sold out or full, but the second one was, just a mass of people, and probably their most expensive stage show to date.
I'd seen them at House of Blues in 2016 in a half full house but I think the pandemic has people missing them too much or something.
I tt
― Formica Jordan (Neanderthal), Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:24 (three months ago) link
I tt?
I know I posted on one of the threads, but I saw them a couple of years ago and they ruled.
I find that certain standard bearer acts (metal or no) can coast on one album for decades, especially when the standard set is one of extreme speed/precision/volume/complexity/etc. I think Meshuggah is one of those acts; if "Destroy Erase Improve" was all they had, they would still be drawing crowds, because you want to see them pull it off. That they still are capable of jaw-dropping, instantly iconic tracks (like the aforementioned "Bleed" from "obZen") is icing on the cake.
I suspect the proggier aspects of the virtuoso music helps instill an extra bit of nerdy devotion as well. See also: Tool, Opeth, Mastodon, etc.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:28 (three months ago) link
Secondly, being taken on tour with Slayer in the late 90s during the Chaosphere tour.
And speaking of, didn't Tool take Meshuggah on tour in the '00s?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:29 (three months ago) link
I Think so - I recall unperson saying "and then they tried to sound like Tool on their next album"
― Formica Jordan (Neanderthal), Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:30 (three months ago) link
xpost
I remember not liking ObZen precisely because the first song, "Combustion," sounded excessively Tool-ish to me.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:32 (three months ago) link
at the last Meshuggah show we went to grab a beer after, it was me, one of my best friends, and the guitar player from his band, and me and my friend were gushing over the show, while the guitar player kinda sat dour in the corner. his view was "shouldn't they move around more, get into the music", which would be the most boring, death-corey thing ever.
I love how mechanical and ominous their stage presence is, as well as how the lighting worked with that. and honestly they were like that when I saw them in 1999, before they were big. Kidman used to spend the time during instrumental breakdowns standing still, locking eyes with people in the crowd and shaking his head menacingly, something he quit doing....pretty much end of that tour.
still only one time to date that they sucked when I saw them, which was the Ministry tour opener. their sound was abysmal, like Frederick's leads weren't mixed properly and sounded off, Kidman looked bored and was cupping the mic like he was Bono the whole show, and they played "Bleed"...and cut out the last minute of the song
xpost lol I knew I remembered you saying that!
― Formica Jordan (Neanderthal), Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:34 (three months ago) link
Kidman used to spend the time during instrumental breakdowns standing still, locking eyes with people in the crowd and shaking his head menacingly, something he quit doing....pretty much end of that tour.
Yeah, this was something I remember really starkly from 2003, him standing perfectly still, arms extended, swiveling his head back and forth like a Terminator that had been burned down to the metal skeleton. Also, when the crowd started chanting "Me-shug-gah! Me-shug-gah!" he let them do it maybe twice and then barked, "Stop that nonsense!"
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:39 (three months ago) link
"Now try it again in 5/16!"
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:45 (three months ago) link
But it seems to me that metal for the past twenty years has heeded the stated preferences of the bands, fans, everyone in the community and has become insular, dedicated to the purity of metal's ideals, and thus has retreated from the wider world.
this is not at all my experience. if anything, I think the scene has grown its audience a lot. random people comment on my shirts all the time, which never used to happen, metal shows selling out big venues when they would have been tiny holes in the wall in the early 2000s.
plus, the streaming explosion has made it much easier for people to curate their own wheelhouse. Gatekeepers will always gatekeep, but part of the reason some metalheads bitched so much about the prominence of 'false metal' in the 90s was that the stature of certain bands dictated the ease of acquiring their material. lots of great bands were import-only in the States in the mid to late 90s as nu-metal was taking off, meaning paying exorbitant prices to acquire and ship. lots of fans blamed those acts, but also, other lesser 'acts' for drawing focus from 'real' metal.
that kinda melted away a bit in the 21st century, a lot of those 'import only acts' had their shit readily released in the US, nu-metal faded, and now instead of basing your listening on what albums you found in the record store or what you could easily and affordably buy online, you can listen to basically any famous/classic album anytime you want. during the pandemic I would get hankerings for very niche, specific sounds, and would find bands that fit that mode in seconds. so boring metal cavemen can listen to their lame Hells Headbangers band that is the 900th to ape Venom and be happy.
I do feel like we are definitely in an era of the genre where experimentation and progression and considered chic. end of year lists frequently have some of the more ambitious offerings, you have bands like Tomb Mold, Afterbirth, Thantifaxath, Thy Catafalque, Portal, Dream Unending, Oranssi Pazuzu, etc, that to varying degrees like to break with form and tradition while still maintaining a metal core. not to mention the (now exhausting) number of black metal bands whose albums consist of 4 15 minute long, ponderous, atmospheric songs (I actually am growing tired of that tbh).
there's always gonna be gatekeepers and I find those people boring. I have friends who call shit "weenie metal" and I tell them how lame that is every time, and there's always going to be the dude with a mullet, armor, and a jean jacket with patches who stands at the foot of the stage with his arms crossed shouting a request for the same obscure song that the band hasn't played since 1991. but we generally tend to make fun of/piss on that guy
― Formica Jordan (Neanderthal), Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:54 (three months ago) link
*are considered chic
― Formica Jordan (Neanderthal), Thursday, 14 December 2023 17:55 (three months ago) link
I do feel like we are definitely in an era of the genre where experimentation and progression and considered chic.
I think it was unperson that turned me on to Wormrot, but then, grindcore has long had an affinity for experimentation. Though of course that music is still pretty extreme. I think the slower, maybe easier to glom onto modes of doom have often helped some bands break through, or worked as bridges. Acts like Sleep or Sunn o))) serve as maybe unlikely crossovers in multiple directions.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 December 2023 18:05 (three months ago) link
Wormrot rullle
― Formica Jordan (Neanderthal), Thursday, 14 December 2023 18:13 (three months ago) link
Ok guys! thanks for your insight!
I will say that it seems slightly not great that this band (and is Meshuggah the metal standard bearer?) and others cited as prime movers in the field currently are almost 40 years old… who do you guys see as the new guys on the way up that have a chance of changing the game as the dominant band in the genre? Like the Morgan Wallen of Metal? Seems like Meshuggah would be the Toby Keith in this context… I listened to Tomb Mold, and they seemed pretty ordinary. Point taken that metal, like any G/B/D format, may not be growing outward anymore: like, is any younger hard rock band going to make QOTSA seem old and suckass? probly not!
In flames opened, and the singer complained that the crowd was not being rowdy enough: I sympathize, in that I would often get crowds that would be too passive, and I too would exhort them, but it does seem to me that the crowd will get a pit going if they feel like it, and the band should not complain if its not happenin' (like, maybe your music should be making that shit happen spontaneously, man!)… but Meshuggah was absolutely, intimidatingly in command (they had a pit going from the get-go). As a novice, it seems to me that there is what sounds to me like a trebly, almost Entwistle-ish bass tone that dances over the DJENTDJENTDJENT blur of downpicking, and I guess this the sound of the 8 strings? Also, and I'm not particularly good at counting obscure time signatures, but fuck if I could find the one in any of the bars of music this band was playing (I am listening to D.I.E. right now and it seems much more conventional, typical of 1995-2001 Sepultura than the much more obtuse ObZen…I also don't get this band being groove metal: Pantera? You Bet!
I had seen Sky Ferreira the night before, and none of you will be surprised to learn that there were far far fewer gay guys and chicks at this show. But more importantly, there was no one (that I saw) under the age of 40.
― veronica moser, Thursday, 14 December 2023 19:37 (three months ago) link
The sneaky thing about Meshuggah is the subdivisions. The one is not always too hard to find - there is often a steady time-keeping pulse, even in a song like "Bleed" - it's where they put the other stuff that makes it so confusing. See also: the bridge (?) of "Unchained" by Van Halen. Or the guitar solo section of "Jump."
I don't know if Meshuggah is *the* metal standard-bearer, but in terms of technical stuff, polyrhythms and time signatures and the like ... maybe. They can certainly be easily invoked and understood as a shorthand for that kind of stuff, imo.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 December 2023 20:05 (three months ago) link
Dan Weiss has been doing jazz independence exercises using Meshuggah songs, what a madman.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0cay8GvMU9/?igshid=ZWI2YzEzYmMxYg==
― Jordan s/t (Jordan), Thursday, 14 December 2023 23:15 (three months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMGCcZ3_IUI
― MaresNest, Friday, 5 January 2024 15:25 (two months ago) link
this is why I still post here
― Paul Ponzi, Friday, 5 January 2024 15:33 (two months ago) link