embrace.

thanks steven.

that sums up my own feelings about doves rather nicely.

(put on the last broadcast during this 'debate' and am really enjoying it ...)

Nooooooooooo. The vinyl equivalent of a black hole, sucking the life out of every other record in it's orbit.

The thing about Embrace is they never had any real truck with the "new Oasis" comparisons, and in fact were really hamstrung by them. The intention, as told to me pretty explicitly the other week, was to be "My Bloody valentine with strings", i.e. a combination of raw noise and heartfelt sentiment. I don't think they actually sound much like Oasis at all and never did; I don't even like Oasis much beyond a few songs.

The things about Embrace that I love are pretty much threefold - firstly the songs, secondly the sense of community that the band encourage in their fans, the way they interract with them and feed off them (the secret gigs being a prime example), coupled with the media's rather bi-polar approach to the band it's created a very real sense of us-against-them which has fired the band, especially for this new album. And the third thing is their creativity - they've never stood still, always moved forwards, always had their sights set on the next record they're making, trying to develop their sound and not just by throwing in all the production glitches they can (which is what I felt Doves did too much on their last album), and they've never been recognised for doing that by anybody but their fanbase really. The second and third albums, and a lot of the b-sides from the beginning through to now, contain an awful lot of musical ideas that you wouldn't expect from a "four square indie band", ideas that bands like Oasis simply never had, and it's throughly irritating hearing them being criticised for being boring and dull and conservative when they're not. Also, they ROCK hard when they bother, and they are absolutely fucking great live - the atmosphere at their gigs is amazing when they take off, which is much more often than not in the dozen or so times I've seen them.

But of course this is all totally subjective, and to everyone else apart from the people who buy the records and go to the gigs and like the band, received wisdom and second hand cliché is all that matters.

I have Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Fela Kuti and bhangra and dancehall compilations and all sorts in my record collection, Paul, don't you dare pull that reactionary shit on me you fucking idiot coward.

-- Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (sickmouth...) (webmail), September 20th, 2004 10:35 AM. (Nick Southall) (later)

is some funny shit!

i guess.

but the thread is still about embrace. and the struggles to make them interesting. which is interesting and keep me coming back!

tis a king crimson cover.

i dig doves emergence as well -- seemed so natural and less planned.

and i heard that they are planning to get chris nagle out of reclusive retirement to do their third. that would be cool.

If only.

Agreeing with Nick, I think Doves are not great at hooks, choruses and melodies, and over employ various devices like 6/8 time (gah!)and twiddly minor-key arpeggios to suggest atmosphere. I do think they have *something* worthwhile though.

I have never heard Embrace.

Tracklisting =

01. No Use Crying
02. Nature's Law
03. You Will Hit The Target Every Time
04. Sainted
05. I Can't Come Down
06. Celebrate
07. Exploding Machines
08. Even Smaller Stones
09. The End Is Near
10. This New Day

I've heard it, and it's a big, aggressive rock beast, heaviest thing they've done but still very tuneful.

Thanks Nick!

Drawn From Memory is such a good album that many people have never heard, though it's not for everyone.

It is by far their best. http://sickmouthy.blogspot.com

fck. embrace were a different proposition when they weren't around.

I actually think they'll slip to three or four come Sunday, but it'd be nice.

Have we ascertained The Lex's whereabouts when this malfunctioning happened?

Today it randomly shuffles up, and I absolutely fall into it, like a chasm I couldn't have missed if I'd just taken my eyes off the sky. Weird. Not that I am ready to defend its classic-ness yet, but perhaps it's not rubbish.

i don't much like embrace. even the bluetones are probably better.

i thought they'd split up ages ago. why have they not.

also, HA HA HA NE-YO GOT THE NUMBER ONE :D