The Byrds - Sweetheart of the Rodeo

Maybe it's just the handmade-candlelit west coast "aura", but The Byrds always strike me as too laid back and self-satisfied. Even the Beatles at their most pleased with themselves had more spastic nerdy energy - the Byrds are shmoove psyche.

That Echoes CD that came out a while back with his early stuff - - the first record and all these random cuts, I think? -- is pretty worthy, I have to say. Lucky find of mine used some years back.

I'm not really feeling this album- just finally hearing it now. Seems like a massive drop-off after the first five brilliant albums. I mean it sounds alright and all but it doesn't really engage me on any level. But then again I've never been much of a Gram Parson's fan (though admittedly I've heard little of his stuff.)

Does anyone around these parts really rate this very highly, like indispensable and shit? It seems to me average at best especially considering its canonical status.

might just be me, but i think it's only been uber-canonical relatively recently? for years i thought it was commonly thought that they dipped after about 1966 but apparently this is the one everyone reaches for. :/

when I was "learning the canon" in the early 90s this was the Byrds album I was "instructed" to get first, so it's been canonical for a while I think. I also don't get why. It might be better if it had more Gram Parsons vocals, since McGuinn's vocals on it are pretty strained w/o backup vocals on the verses to mask/color them.

when I was "learning the canon" in the early 90s this was the Byrds album I was "instructed" to get first

fair play. i only started digging it this year tbh, ten years after i got it!

they found a perfect balance between psych and country on the notorious byrd bros, the album before. they should have ridden that out instead of going as nashville as they did for this one

I remember this being raved about and canonised starting in the late eighties. I've always thought it was pretty poor album, myself, all the more so considering it comes right after "Notorious Byrds Brothers" (ha, x-post). There are a couple of tracks from it with Gram Parsons instead of Roger McGuinn vocals on the 4CD Byrds box set from way back, I wasn't too taken with them either.

looking back over this album it's striking how dark and serious it is, whereas a straight-up country album would have had a few laughs or lighter topics or at least love songs worked in. McGuinn was always interesting in milking Dylan's latest moves and so you get the Basement Tapes songs here, plus the gothness of the Louvin Brothers. I guess it's a...metaphysical take on country, a direction that Dylan begins exploring but gives up by Nashville Skyline...and so do the Byrds by Ballad of Easy Rider.

they found a perfect balance between psych and country on the notorious byrd bros

I don't hear much country on Notorious. Folk-rock, yes. But no real country. The only thing that comes to mind is possibly the intro to "Wasn't Born to Follow." But when compared to Hillman's contributions to Younger than... it doesn't sound country at all.

whereas a straight-up country album would have had a few laughs or lighter topics or at least love songs worked in

If heartbreak songs count as love songs: "Blue Canadian Rockies," "You Don't Miss Your Water" and "You're Still on My Mind"

That's true. All three of those songs are heartbreak songs in a specific way: they're about the one being heartbroken, and not specific at all about the lover being lost. But lots of straight-up country songs are self-absorbed this way too, so you're right.

"Blue Canadian Rockies" and "You're Still on My Mind" ARE straight-up country songs. The former was a hit for Hank Snow, while George Jones scored a massive hit with the latter. ("You Don't Miss Your Water," meanwhile, is one of the foundations of Southern soul, originally written and performed by William Bell.)

good point!

I don't hear much country on Notorious. Folk-rock, yes. But no real country. The only thing that comes to mind is possibly the intro to "Wasn't Born to Follow." But when compared to Hillman's contributions to Younger than... it doesn't sound country at all.

"Change is Now" has a ton of excellent pedal steel, "Old John Robertson" is straight-up country, if you discount the random string quartet that passes through at the song's midpoint. There's also a very subtle slide guitar in "Goin' Back", and "Get to You" has a nice gallop to it, plus a lapsteel mimicking McGuinn's vocal melody. And as you mention the wonderful "Wasn't Born to Follow". I gotta agree with Kamerad - Notorious was a truly unique, forward-thinking blend of country and psych. I like Sweetheart a lot too, but it is far more traditional.

My feeling is that people coming to Sweetheart as Gram Parsons fans will find a lot to love, but people coming to it as Byrds fans first will like it, sure, but it doesn't really sound like the Byrds (save the two Dylan covers).

I guess it's a question of perspective. If you listen to a lot of honky tonk, bluegrass and old time (which I do), then a tune like "Old John Robertson" doesn't sound like "straight-up country." It sounds like folk revivalists going electric to me. Sure, there are country touches on this record (pedal steel here, a gallop there), but they are only touches in my opinion. I don't think the record can really be called a blend of psychedelia and country. That, to me, implies some kind of merger of the genres. And I just don't hear it. Notorious is an interesting record because in many respects it shares more in common with the first two albums than with 5D and Younger..., which are kind of all over the map.

My feeling is that people coming to Sweetheart as Gram Parsons fans will find a lot to love, but people coming to it as Byrds fans first will like it, sure, but it doesn't really sound like the Byrds (save the two Dylan covers).

But what are the Byrds suppose to sound like? The Byrds never stopped evolving. I count at least four distinct phases. Plus, it was the final line up that actually produced the most music.

...and they shared more in common with Sweethearts than Notorious.

I think it's considered canonical less because of a presumed superiority to other Byrds' albums than just because of Parsons's presence; that's certainly why I first got it. I still find it difficult to think of as a 'proper' Byrds album. I listen to it for the Parsons contributions, tbh, but I definitely think Notorious is a better album all around.

I mean, "Old John Robertson" feels more like the offspring of Weavers, Rooftop Singers, Kingston Trio, New Christy Minstrals, etc. than Hank Williams, Bill Monroe, Lefty Frizzell and so on. IMHO

For some reason, I always sing "Old John Malkovich" when I sing that song in my head.

Thanks, will!

if you haven't heard it, this is pretty nice -- a rare tape of gram parsons playing live w/ the byrds. though really the main attraction is the wild banjo from doug dillard: http://blogstoned.blogspot.com/2010/10/byrds-piper-club.html
they should've kept dillard in the band longer! would've been cool to hear him duel with clarence white. another tape of this lineup surfaced recently, but i missed downloading it over here: http://rocking--byrd.blogspot.com/2013/04/normal-0-21-false-false-false.html
anyone have it?
looks enticing, dunno about the sound quality:
1. I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better (2:03)
2. Chimes Of Freedom (3:25)
3. You Ain't Going Nowhere (2:53)
4. Satisfied Mind (3:18)
5. So You Want To Be A Rock 'N' Roll Star (2:24)
6. My Back Pages - B.J. Blues - Baby What You Want Me To Do (5:36)
7. Hickory Wind (4:45)
8. One Hundred Years From Now (2:27)
9. You Don't Miss Your Water (4:57)
10. Foggy Mountain Breakdown (1:31)
11. Pretty Boy Floyd (3:03)
12. Eight Miles High (3:56)
13. Mr. Tambourine Man (1:53)
14. Turn Turn Turn (2:38)
15. Goin' Back (2:55)
16. Hey Joe (2:21)

holy crap at the banjo & tempo on "i'll feel a whole lot better". thanks.
can't help you with the fillmore east show but you are still on time to get [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/BYRDS-TIM-BUCKLEY-1968-Fillmore-East-Concert-TIcket-/110905119537the ticket stub[/url]!

oh crap. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BYRDS-TIM-BUCKLEY-1968-Fillmore-East-Concert-TIcket-/110905119537

haha, no thx -- i want the tape!
yeah the tempos on some of those piper club tracks are wild. also interesting to hear parsons doing wacky keyboards on a few tracks -- i guess that is what the byrds originally hired him to do?

Yeah, McGuinn claimed he'd been hired as a "Jazz Pianist".

i guess that's kinda what he's doing. parsons definitely had a lot of gall, hijacking one of the bigger rock bands in the world and then leaving them within 6 months.

Hey, after Sweetheart there were more Byrds in the Flying Burrito Brothers than there were in the Byrds.

i guess that's kinda what he's doing. parsons definitely had a lot of gall, hijacking one of the bigger rock bands in the world and then leaving them within 6 months.

― tylerw, Friday, June 14, 2013 5:10 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think it's unquestionable that parsons had tons of chutzpah, but it's also true that by late 1967 the byrds were not really considered a huge act, no? or at least they hadn't had a big hit for two years.

which is like 20 years in "sixties time"

About 18 months, but yeah, their last top 40 single -- ever, as it turns out -- was "My Back Pages" in March of '67, and Sweetheart came out in August '68. For a band that was used to having 2-3 high-charting singles per year, they probably felt like they were washed up.

yeah, probably true -- all the lineup changes probably took them down several notches from being the "american beatles."

it is funny to think if the beatles by 1967 had morphed into like paul mccartney plus jeff beck or something.

Happy birthday to Roger McGuinn. Here's some priceless footage of The Byrds with Earl Scruggs and his sons performing You Ain’t Going Nowhere pic.twitter.com/DSta1Ia6N8

— Birmingham 81 (@Birmingham_81) July 13, 2023

Super footage of The Byrds and Earl Scruggs.

Oh yeah, that's an ILM classic at this point.

I've never seen that! Incredible.

For a live recording outside, the sound quality is so high. Including the drums.

Who sings the second verse? His voice is apt.

I love Scruggs' appearance, and like how he and his son each take a solo.

The one thing not really coming through the mix is McGuinn's Rickenbacker picking, though I can hear some kind of ringing resonance.

gary scruggs taking the second verse

had never seen the full clip of that

the gary & randy scruggs records on vanguard are uneven, but have some pretty sick moments imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5R8XlRzqUA

Yeah, and the Earl Scruggs Revue, with his sons, was pretty cool---I had this one, from 1972: Live at Kansas State

http://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kyigEHnKIDHcwWfu6lVZzKZ3RlMeinYpA

T for Texas (Live)

4:15
2
Bound In Jail All Night Long (Paul & Silas) (Live)

2:45
3
Rambling Round Your City (Ramblin' Round) (Live)

3:57
4
Sally Gooding (Live)

4:00
5
Most Likely You Go Your Way (And I'll Go Mine) (Live)

3:46
6
Carolina Boogie (Live)

2:40
7
Everybody Wants to Go to Heaven (Live)

5:21
8
You Ain't Going Nowhere (Live)

2:23
9
Both Sides Now (Live)

3:11
10
Good Woman's Love (Live)

3:07
11
Bugle Call Rag (Live)

2:30
12
Foggy Mountain Breakdown (Live)

Side 1

"If I'd Only Come and Gone" (Shel Silverstein) – 2:55
"Tears" (Craig Fuller) – 2:12
"Some of Shelley's Blues" (Michael Nesmith) – 2:57
"It Takes a Lot to Laugh, It Takes a Train to Cry" (Bob Dylan) – 4:25
"Step It Up and Go" (Blind Boy Fuller) – 2:25
"Back Slider's Wine" (Michael Martin Murphey) – 2:33
Side 2

"Down in the Flood" (Bob Dylan) – 2:38
"Love In My Time" (Steve Young) – 3:43
"Holiday Hotel" (Alan Garth, Jim Messina) – 2:07
"Come On Train" (Josh Graves) – 5:30
"Salty Dog Blues" (Wiley Morris, Zeke Morris) – 2:10
"Station Break" (Earl Scruggs) - 1:59
Personnel
Earl Scruggs – banjo, backing vocals
Gary Scruggs - electric bass, harmonica, lead vocals
Randy Scruggs - electric and acoustic lead guitars, rhythm guitar, backing vocals
Jody Maphis - drums, backing vocals
Josh Graves - dobro, guitar, lead vocals on "Step It Up and Go"; backing vocals
Jack Lee - keyboards
With:

Tracy Nelson - backing vocals
Andy McMahon - piano, organ, backing vocals
Chip Young - rhythm guitar
The Holladays - backing vocals on "Down in the Flood"
Karl Himmel - drums on "Love in My Time", "Tears" and "Come on Train"
References

Here's the whole Earl Scruggs documentary that Byrds clip is from. I haven't seen any of this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlneqC0mVsk

Thanks! Looks like it's the one where Dylan sings "East Virginia Blues"; I have that guest shot on a bootleg.
See, you had that whole thing, from the country side as well as rock, but McGuinn, despite bringing in Doug Dillard briefly and Clarence White a lot more, didn't really take advantage of his cred. Like he said he let Hillman talk him into going country because the Byrds weren't hot anymore, so what the heck---and before that, he said he let Crosby talk him into "Eight Miles High," and then there's that other one-shot, "Moog Raga"---amd live tapes of the Byrds incl. White sound like McG's just riding Clarence's coattails, doing the standard Byrds setlist---then he gets with those lower-case stooges and still calls it the Byrds--but some more good tracks a long the way, for a while (also, xgau's site indicates that some of the Roger McGuinn albums might be worth checking out).