The Mantronix thread/C or D

One night at Danceteria , Afrika Islam was playing on the roof. I got on the mic for a minute , and Kurtis Mantronik was standing nearby. He asked if I wanted to make a record. We did “Put That Record Back On”. “Latoya” was already recorded , but wasn’t ready to be released yet. At the time “Ladi Dadi” was slammin’ , and that was the inspriration for Latoya. I wrote that on my hour break , when I was a dishwasher at an Italian restaurant in lower Manhattan.

Speakin’ of Mantronik , he was instrumental in makin’ some dope beats for you and T La Rock , as well as his group. Was it a thing where Mantronik did EVERYTHING on the track , or was he just doing the programming , with someone else adding the samples?

He had the beats , and he would ask me what certain records were , and I had those records. Like at the beginning of “Cold Getting Dumb” I used somethin’ that no one else had used. It was “Funky Music Is The Thing". It was like that. He knew what sample he wanted , but he didn’t know who made it , so I gave him the record. He did the drum programming and sampling. I couldn’t fu*k with the SP12.

What drum machines was he using?

The Roland 707 & 808. We didn’t like the 909 & 707 as much. The 808 had that bass!!

He was ahead of his time wit the beats. Even your love song and reggae joint had knockin' beats. I try to tell these cats that he is the blueprint for Timbaland and a lot of other cats that program beats.

He was waaay ahead of his time. Kurtis would kill Timbaland makin’ beats !!! I think he is livin’ in Florida now. He don’t have to make records 'cus he was always rich !!! Trust me he was doin’ records just for the fuc*in fun of it , cus he did not need a dime.

“That Girls Is A Slut” was a very provocative record at the time. “Ladi Dadi” had a few references , but you got RAW !!! Did you get flack from the label?

(Laughs)…Nah , they supported everything I did. I remember one time this girls mother called the label , sayin' she just bought Just Ices record and its disgusting. She said she was gonna boycott. I got on the phone and told her to boycott all she wanted but people would still but the record !!! Everything I did the label supported , cus no one was doin’it. I was spittin’ that gangsta street shit. I don’t know what NWA was doin’ 'cus im not on the West Coast , but I was the first one to bring gangster shit to the records.

I can tell you ; at that time Ice Cube & Dre had a song called the “Cabbage Patch” about a dance. Cube was just forming a group called CIA that had a song called “My Posse” that sounded like the Beastie Boys and Dre & Yella had just come out of the World Class Wreckin’ Cru , and they looked very similar to Prince or Ready For The World. So I can agree that you were first.

I remember doin’ shows with the World Class Wreckin’ Cru ! So they was bein’ lil bitches over there while I was doin' the gangster shit ! (laughs). So you are a record collector huh? Can you tell me the first joint that Flash & The Furious 5 did? Not too many people can.

“We Rap More Mellow” under the name Younger Generation.

At least you know that. Wasn’t there another joint. I have somethin’ else by them.

Oh, “Rappin All Over”. That’s Busy Bee & Dj Smalls. The guy who ran that label just recorded those guys ,and released the music under the name Younger Generation. It was a generic name.

Oh ok….I have that joint.

That’s a rare record. I think its been repressed. Speaking of represses. A lot of the Sleeping Bag/Fresh catalog including Back To The Old School & Kool & Deadly have been repressed. Do you see any loot off of these?

I just found out about it recently. I was at the office a few weeks ago and they showed me one of the records. We gotta find out where they are comin’ from ‘cus they are makin a lot of money !!

Who did the artwork on the BTTOS cover?

This kid named Mendel. I didn’t have anything to do with it. They showed me and I was like who the fu*k is this? They said it's you Just ! No other covers were like that at the time outside of “Needle To The Groove”.

Where does the Dancehall Reggae influence in your music come from? Moshitup is my joint !!!

(Just corrects JayQuans pronunciation) It’s Mash It Up (with the Jamaician accent). The influence is from my mother , she’s Jamacian. Besides that ,all I listen to is Yard music. I may play some R&B every once and awhile but that’s it.

You were one of the first to really fuse that with Hip Hop right?

Yeah it’s between me & Shinehead. He had a record called “Know How Fe Chat”. That beat is like Hip Hop !! That record is off the fuc*in’ hook , I listen to it till this day.

Yeah me too , it’s the best joint on that album !!!(his first Lp, Unity)

I think I did Lyric Licking first then he did “Know How Fe Chat”. Me & Shine head is cool…that turtle head motherfu*ker !!

Speakin’ of being first. You were also the first one that I ever saw with all gold teeth , in addition to outright calling yourself a gangster. Do you feel that you are in anyway underrated or forgotten in Hip Hop?

Yeah I had 32 gold teeth. I could pick up radio stations & sh*t. But im straight. Anywhere I go motherfu*kers know me !!! I can go to VA , Japan , all I gotta do is say my name. In any Hip hop circle anywhere they know me.

How did the beef between you & Kurtis Blow start?

That wasn’t a real beef. There was no problem. I just didn’t like the way he rhymed. He was from Queens or wherever the fu*k he was from. He made a few records that I love like Daydreaming. But as a performer he was wack with all that dancin’. But me & Kurt are mad cool , there was never any problems. I think he lives somewhere near me.

He was living near Grand Concourse last time we talked.

Ok , he lives like 4 blocks from me!!! But I don’t have beef with anyone in the industry. I respect them and they respect me , if not I’ll just flip on ‘em – fuc*k’em !!!

Did you get along good with your labelmates , Tla Rock & MC Tee ?

(laughs) Hell yea !! There was this lil café across the street from the label called Fredricos. They used to make these Long Island ice teas just for us , with the garlic bread that was real good. So one night we saw Lawrence Fishburne in there , he is from Fort Greene , Brooklyn. We went up to the studio with Mantronik & T La Rock and listened to music. Then we took him back to Fredricos and got him real drunk. Word !!! We got Cornbread , Earl & Me fuc*ed up !!!!! Joyce Simms always thought that I was too edgy. Her husband was her manager , and we could never really play around and stuff with her. She was really just a nerd on the label. Nocera, who did the Latin Freestyle stuff on the label was from Soundview she was cool.

Did you have videos for anything except “Going Way Back” and “Welfare Reciepients”?

Yeah “Girls & Guns”….

How did you get with Flash to produce the Masterpiece Lp ?

Flash used to come up to Sleeping Bag Records , and I approached him. I let him know how I used to come see him and get an ass whipping back in the days. Melle Mel told him that I was official. The Lp didn’t do well , ‘cus the label was goin’ under. There were certain records that I wanted to use , that I knew only Flash had , ‘cus I saw him spin them back in the days. Kid Capri used to play cuts off that Lp and showed it a lot of love.

The Desolate One seems like it should have done better also.

The label was too busy fu*kin wit’ EPMD & Hanson & Davis. I got a few tours off that lp , but that was an angry time in my life.

I will ask you the same as far as as with KRS, as I did with Mantronik. Was it a coproducing situation , or did KRS do it all.

Co producing. But sometimes he would do the beats at home and call me up. I would hop in a cab and go to the studio.

Name your 3 favorite songs from your catalog.

Booga Bandit Bitch , Going Way Back & Latoya. But there are so many that I like – Freedom Of Speech , Cold Getting Dumb , Moshitup , Lyric Licking , Gangster Of Hip Hop.

I like all that too , but I still listen to “Turbo Charged”. That’s my sh*t , I ride to that one !!

(Just is gettin amped!) Oh son , I was listening to that the other day!! They made me mad ‘cus my vocals are too low. The beat drowns me out. They should reissue that as a 12” with my vocals louder. That beat is off the fuc*in’ hook !!!

NWA sampled “That Girl Is A Slut” for their song “She Swallowed It”. Did you get paid?

Yeah , I got paid for that , no doubt.

“Back To The Old School” & “Kool & Deadly”. Are classics. They don’t seem to be defined by the time they came out in. Is that because it was just beats & rhymes , kinda the essence? ‘Cus I can play anything off BTTOS & even the young heds will feel it.

Yeah. I told Kurtis (Mantronik) that I don’t want no records with basslines or instruments , just beats. In fact , you know back in the days the only record with a bassline, that you could play in a steaming Hip Hop party before Apache , The Mexican or any of ‘em is….”Scratching” by The Magic Disco Machine.

The joint that RUN DMC used for “Jam Master Jay”….

Right , but they didn’t use the breakbeat. You ever heard of the Meditation ? I found the 45 of it for 15.00 on theoriginal label. I am also looking for the record cover to Lp wit the Mexican by Babe Ruth. I have the record , I just need the cover. The LP is called First Base. It’s black with some people playin’ baseball in space with space helmets on.

I will look out for it. They don’t know how to price records down here (VA) so I catch gems all the time.

What’s your opinion of todays rap music ?

Well , they must be doin’ somethin’ right , ‘cus it’s still here and they makin’ a lotta money. But truthfully it’s bubblegum sh*t to me. They make an album and think they did it all and they the sh*t , but you get ‘em on stage and all they say is the rhymes on their albums. You get ‘em up there wit some real Emcees , and a Emcee will beat a rappers ass any day !! I ain’t mad at nobody – they doin’ what they gotta do to keep this sh*t goin’ , but personally….fuc*em !!!

It’s interesting that you mention stage performance. I have noticed that these dudes have no breath control. I mean a cat like Biggie or Fat Joe I understand the physical limitations. But it’s no excuse for some of these cats getting drowned out by their 10 or so boys on stage , cus they cant catch their breath and rhyme for one 3 minute song !!!

(just is buggin’ , and in agreement) ….yeah one nig*a made the record , but 4 or 5 dudes have a mic !!! The mother fuc*er that made the record says 3 words and his boys fill in the rest !!! And people pay to see that sh*t !!! These Nig*as don’t got no real skills. Jay –Z and Nas are good , in fact Nas is real good , but all these cats talk about is bangin’ girls with big asses , and how they shoot , rob & sell drugs man. It goes way deeper than that.

Lastly I would like to know how was it as far as violence at a Hip Hop jam in the Bronx back in the early days?

Man !! You risked your life every time that you went to a jam !!!! I remember robbin’ cats at Bronx River Center back in the days! I was 17 years old and I had gotten into 131 to see Theodore play. Someone got shot in the head, and people just kept on dancin’ !!!! When the Emcees said “throw your hands in the air” , the stick up kids came right up behind you and said “yeah and keep them motherfu*kers up there” (JayQuan is buggin’)…that’s real man ; Hip Hop was some wild sh*t , people just don’t know !!!!

It’s been the highest honor Just. Peace…..

Peace