in praise of ... wu-tang clan, enter the wu-tang (36 chambers)

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i'm hardly the biggest hip-hop fan around here (though i like goodly portions of said genre, and these days prefer contemporary hip-hop to contemporary rock). but i've always had a real love for 36 chambers, and recently this one has been on close to constant rotation at home. it would be hard for me to describe 36 chambers w/t relying on the usual cliches and catchwords -- about how it creates its own self-contained world lyrically and sonically (a plus for me, in ANY genre), how each of the MC's does his schtick and lets the listener sort it all out, and above all RZA's production skills (esp. impressive considering how low-budget 36 chambers is, very apparent in comparison to the rest of the back catalogues of both wu-tang and the individual wu-tang'ers). so i'll leave that to others here, w/ an occasional peep.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 16 January 2005 04:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm usually bad at remembering the initial impact of an album but I remember this one well because I was so reticent at first. At the time I remember feeling inundated w/ "ruff rugged crews from da sewa", the samey jazz beats the east coast was drowning in at the time, and was unimpressed w/ Mystery of Chessboxing(the only video on Rap City rotation iirc) and passed on them for months until a friend made a point of making me listen, the rest is history(I bought it w/ Outkast's debut the day that one came out; I probably should have gone to the racetrack that day). A new slate of beats, flows, cultural references, energy, etc. I thought they were gonna be like that group that always wore the Boston hockey jerseys, my bad.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Sunday, 16 January 2005 06:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I really do need to hear this album one of these days.

― Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 16 January 2005 07:26 (nineteen years ago) link

"I'll fuckin......sew your ass cheeks closed, and keep feedin you, and feedin you and feedin you."

― Aaron Hertz (AaronHz), Sunday, 16 January 2005 07:34 (nineteen years ago) link

And yo, the RZA, he always on point! With the beats, the rhymes, anything!

― Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 16 January 2005 07:46 (nineteen years ago) link

One thing I always loved about this album is that it doesn't just feel like another "rough rugged crew" but it really sounds like a bunch of friends that came up together and developed their own slightly off beat language.

― Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 16 January 2005 07:47 (nineteen years ago) link

CLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSIIIIICCCC

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 16 January 2005 08:35 (nineteen years ago) link

This is one of the few albums that I prefer as an album instead of individual tracks here and there. Nothing sounds right isolated between two other songs.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Sunday, 16 January 2005 08:42 (nineteen years ago) link

massive pig sign to the Tad man.

― Sami Jheryllkanyga, Sunday, 16 January 2005 08:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Almost as good as the first Saian Supa Crew album

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 16 January 2005 08:54 (nineteen years ago) link

every kid in 10th grade was all about this. the metal heads, the hiphop heads, the raver kids, the hippies. classic beyond all classic.

― chaki in charge (chaki), Sunday, 16 January 2005 09:16 (nineteen years ago) link

It really is great, even though the RZA was definitely in the early stages of learning to EQ his tracks. The real breakthrough in production came about a year and a half later on Only Built 4 Cuban Linx which also kicked up the strangeness of the lyrics by several notches by virtue of having ost of the MCing done by the Wu's wackiest mismatched buddy movie duo, Rae and Ghost.

And these days, whattaya know? Ghost is the only one of those fuckers I give half a shit about.

― Austin, Sunday, 16 January 2005 12:37 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd take the production of 36 chambers over any other wu release...rugged and raw, i repeat

― Space Is the Place (Space Is the Place), Sunday, 16 January 2005 16:40 (nineteen years ago) link

raw like the raw imma give it to ya, with no trivia, just like cocaine straight from bolivia kinda raw?

I bought it the day it came out, thanks to Yo MTV Raps! what a show that was back in the day.

― Rizz (Rizz), Sunday, 16 January 2005 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link

The first time I heard it was in Providence, R.I., from the same dude who turned me on to the Beatnuts.. he did lots of Vicodin and told me about a guy he supposedly knew who got a tattoo in block capital letters on his CHEEK that said "fuck the police"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 16 January 2005 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I first read about them in a Rolling Stone review (I think they gave it three and a half stars). About a week later a kid came onto my bus (this was 8th grade) yelling "WU-TANG, MUTHAFUCKA! WU-TANG! WU-TANG! WU-TANG, MUTHAFUCKA! BACK OFF!" and kept doing that for the rest of the year. I moved that summer, and its possible he's still doing that today.

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 16 January 2005 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link

isevertheheadfromtheshouldersimbetterthanmycompetayoumeancompetitorWHATEVAH!
Let's get togethAH!

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Sunday, 16 January 2005 20:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Quite possibly the greatest album I have ever heard. It is a beautiful image of 8 MCs and a producer knowing each other's strengths to such a degree and the sheer number of options to tack the tracks leaves no room for monotony to set in.

― Nick H (Nick H), Sunday, 16 January 2005 20:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Even I own it and acknowledge its greatness.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 16 January 2005 20:32 (nineteen years ago) link

the drum/fingersnap hits on 'bring da ruckus' is possibly the most badass sound ever created

― jake b. (cerybut), Sunday, 16 January 2005 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link

i got into wu-tang long after it came out, which is perhaps why it never did much for me. it sounds primitive and weedy next to the w or bobby digital or supreme clientele imho.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 16 January 2005 21:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree that RZA's production skills weren't at their peak at the time; some of beats are simply too muddy and low-tech, and on some tracks (like "Shame on a Nigga", otherwise a great song) the actual drum parts are somewhat unimaginative; admittedly, on other tracks they're brilliant. As a group of MCs, however, the Wu never sounded as energetic and coherent as here. My favourite track is perhaps "Tearz", which some people consider to be the album's weakest. Admittedly, the scare story it presents is a bit cliched, but the way the electric piano riff is given a dub treatment in the end of the song is simply beautiful. Also, "Tearz" has what is perhaps my favourite line on the album: at the end of his verse RZA says "I wish I had a chance to say these three words". However, the line is immediately followed by the chorus ("After laughter come tears"), which has four words! At first I thought this was a silly goof, but then I realized the three words RZA wanted to say were "I love you"; however, being a rugged ruffian he is, he can't even say them aloud here. Simple yet forceful.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 16 January 2005 21:38 (nineteen years ago) link

track eight on big l's lifestylez... has several cameos with mediocre verses. one of 'em references the wu (protect ya neck), over a dope beat. the track is good until jay z's verse, but the beat is hot throughout.

― rssgnld, Monday, 17 January 2005 07:18 (nineteen years ago) link

What are you talking about? "Da Graveyard" has hot verses back to front. Lord Finesse, Microphone nut, party arty? Those dudes were fire. "Got more wild flavors than mothafuckin nowanlatas."

And Jay-Z's verse is great too, that whole "ladies step up, i get around like a wheel/
never chokinonchronic, skillsarebionic, bitchez'lltreatmelikeonyxexPECT that I'll peel a punk's cap back and sign it/
Creep through your block, fuck a glock, I step/
through your neighborhood armed with nothin but a rep/
I'm givin these ladies somethin they can feel cuz i'm real/
your man get outta line and its kill kill kill kill

That's fucking hot shit right there.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 17 January 2005 07:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Somebody liked Party Arty? Man, he always annoyed the shit out of me. I guess I only ever heard him on that Show And AG record "Goodfellas" though.

― Austin (Austin), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:44 (nineteen years ago) link

i remember when 36 chambers was released. it really DIDNT sound like any other rap album at the time, the production and EQing was so fucking fucked, a lot of people thought it was just plain terrible sonically speaking. it was the most raggedy, fuckedupest sounding hip hop album ever, plus a lot of the samples werent neatly sliced and diced, it wasnt perfectly mastered, the levels were all over the place, the rappers sounded utterly raw, hungry and mangled, i didnt know who was who (which was even better), etc etc etc. brilliance. i didnt like wu tang forever for a long time cos it was like rza forgot about his cruddiness. now i realise that is stupid and that its a masterpiece in its own right (and rza uses synths better than most of the sub-swizz/sub-neptunes fuxors in hip hop production).

― splooge (thesplooge), Monday, 17 January 2005 15:50 (nineteen years ago) link

some of beats are simply too muddy and low-tech,

Impossilbe! To each his own, though.
Best hip hop album ever.

― 00ps, Monday, 17 January 2005 17:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Soebody needs to relisten to "It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back"

― Austin (Austin), Monday, 17 January 2005 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link

"Best hip hop album ever."

I'll go farther than that. This is flat out one of the best ALBUMS ever. True, it's not completely perfect and the production can occassionally sound almost charmingly crude (even compared to the next round of RZA productions), but that grittiness and murk are actually what makes the album so consistently anomolous (esp. right now.) And if "Tearz" is the weakest track on your album, you've done something right cuz that track is amazing (as are all the mourners and all the bangers. . . it's just incredibly strong from start to finish.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 January 2005 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link

"Somebody needs to relisten to "It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back""

FTR I love Nations, but it's just flat out not as good as ET36C. I don't return to it as often and it doesn't startle me as much when I do. Tracks on Fear on the other hand, wow, still blow my fucking mind but it's a little to uneven to quite compare to stripped down consistency of ET36C.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 January 2005 17:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm w/ alex on this.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 17 January 2005 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah - ill agree - both great albums, but 36 chambers drags less in its length.

― peter smith (plsmith), Monday, 17 January 2005 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

I would think the "charming crudeness" happened due to the lack of finance they had to record the record and the fact that it can still hold its own is tantemount to its greatness.

― Nick H (Nick H), Monday, 17 January 2005 19:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Well by the time they released the record they had been in the midst of a major label bidding war (which they had exploited brilliantly and mercilessly) and would've had plenty of opportunities to re-record or just clean up these tracks if they had wanted to, I am sure.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 January 2005 20:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Quite possibly. I'm far too young to remember its release and any hoo-ha surrounding it.

― Nick H (Nick H), Monday, 17 January 2005 20:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I fear the day they decide to remaster it and put it out on sacd or something

― Rizz (Rizz), Monday, 17 January 2005 20:25 (nineteen years ago) link

they did that with method man's tical. the original is completely terribly engineered, but when it was remastered, they made it sound normal. which was just wrong.

― ppp, Monday, 17 January 2005 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link

I prefer the sound of the unmastered Illmatic. It sounds a bit flatter, like hearing it on cassette (which sounds right to me). But maybe I'm being ridiculous.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 17 January 2005 21:30 (nineteen years ago) link

er "unremastered" that is.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 17 January 2005 21:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Obviously reasonable people can disagree on the G.O.A.T. question (if I was feeling a little different I might have said any number of other things, including Paid in Full, Paul's Boutique, The Low End Theory, Sex Packets, or if I was in a really obscuratanist mood, Bazerk! Bazerk! Bazerk!)

Still, I think not only are there plenty of better candidates, but as I've already mentioned, I think there are better candidates in the Wu catalog. I guess I just prefer a sharper more defined sound than some lofi cats around here.

― Austin (Austin), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 04:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Soebody needs to relisten to "It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back"

-- Austin

I just knew someone was gonna bring up PE! I deleted "anyone who says it's PE instead is a nerd and gets the gas face" from my first post.

― 00ps, Tuesday, 18 January 2005 04:30 (nineteen years ago) link

totally agree w/everything Alex said. and I've always argued that Fear is better than Nation.

― 00ps, Tuesday, 18 January 2005 04:32 (nineteen years ago) link

I knew I shoulda said "Bazerk! Bazerk! Bazerk!"

― Austin (Austin), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 05:42 (nineteen years ago) link

...or did I mean, "Haiku d'Etat's Self Titled Debut"?

― Austin (Austin), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 05:47 (nineteen years ago) link

everytime i listen to 36Chambers it gains a few spots in my imaginary fav albums list in my head. you hear new piano licks and shit every time, it is like walking through different "chambers"... i loves it.

― Nic de Teardrop (Nicholas), Tuesday, 18 January 2005 06:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I hope for god's sake you aren't serious about Haiku d'Etat

― ()()ps, Wednesday, 19 January 2005 00:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Jesus wept.

Yeah, I love that record.

― Austin (Austin), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 03:53 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...

This was maybe the worst rap I ever heard and certainly the worst rap cd I ever bought. I was surprised that this was the group that had eastern philosophy (Taoism?) behind it. Wisdom of the universe. Ha! Sounded like a bunch of silly shit to me.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 26 March 2005 03:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Um. I don't know you Lemonade Salesman, and I don't mean to offend, but I fear that your thoughts on this are either:

A) meant to incite head-scratching slow-burning mental riot.
B) meant to incite head-scratching slow-burning mental riot.

Seriously, that fucking butterfly song by "Crazy Town" could be considered a "rap".

Again, with all due respect...

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 26 March 2005 04:22 (nineteen years ago) link

John Justen,

Who am I? I sell lemonade for 10Â¢ a cup!

My thoughts on this were:

A) My honest opinion. I was truly puzzled and bummed upon listening. I felt the need to express my disdain for 36 Chambers when I saw the RZA post and it reminded me, "Oh yeah, I hate them. Let me just say that and be the voice of dissent here." I figured it would be more appropriate to revive a thread about 36 Chambers than to chime in randomly on a different thread.

B) There was no other reason, but I suppose rather than "inciting a mental riot," it could be considered a reminder that no matter how awesome something seems to you, somewhere someone is very unimpressed by it and might even think less of you by association. For instance, I like Phish and you like Wu Tang. Put down Phish, I don't care. We don't all have to agree. One man's "hot shit" is another man's "douche bag." I would be embarrassed to wear either t-shirt, frankly. So maybe don't be so impressed by things to the point that you get "slow-burning mental riot" when someone disagrees because, chances are, lots of people disagree with you and it's better to be grounded in reality.

Although, really, choice B was just a reaction to your post and not something I had actually considered when I was making the first post.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 26 March 2005 05:07 (nineteen years ago) link

In all honesty, well said. I extend the unneccessary olive branch. And god knows, some of the things I like I would be hard to defend to almost anyone.

The point I was trying to make is that, while you obviously don't like them, I'm going to guess the "worst rap I've ever heard" is a bit overblown. So I thought I'd chime in.

Perhaps your Phish vs. Wu-Tang deliniation has some basis in truth. Anyone want to avow love for both? Just curious. I will side strongly with wu-tang.

― John Justen (johnjusten), Saturday, 26 March 2005 05:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Wu Tang really annoyed me, actually. I suppose Vanilla Ice is worse, but his music didn't actually BOTHER me, it was just more like a joke. Wu Tang had the quality that some music has that if you "go with it" feels edgey and gets you pumped up, but if you don't particularly connect with it you actually become very annoyed by it to the point where you might like to smash the radio to get out those negative vibes that have seized your guts and chest. It's an aggressive rhythm, I guess? I could envision fans saying it's "relentless" and meaning that as a compliment whereas I would use the term "relentless" as more of a characterization of someone who is mercilessly beating me with a verbal assault I can't stomach. Is that over the top? :)

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 26 March 2005 05:35 (nineteen years ago) link

I like Wu-Tang and Phish, but Lemonade Salesman is certainly entitled to his opinion. Going against consensus does not equal trolling, this board would have no point if it did.
"Worst rap I ever heard" certainly needs to be qualified by some context as to what you do think is good. It's just a hard statement to swallow by itself.
Kinda OTM about Wu-Tang's philosophical aspect being bullshit. I was never convinced on that angle.

― @@r0n h. z@nd3r$ (AaronHz), Saturday, 26 March 2005 05:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Wu-Tang is for the children

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 26 March 2005 05:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I hope I explained that "worst rap" statement a little better in my last post. "Worst" is a rather lame word choice. There is some pretty goofy half-assed attempts at rap out there and it is not as if Wu Tang were inept at what they did. So you're right, "worst" is totally unqualifiable. Sorry about that. I wasn't thinking technically.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Saturday, 26 March 2005 05:56 (nineteen years ago) link

...

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 26 March 2005 05:59 (nineteen years ago) link

The impression that I get is that you don't like aggressive-sounding rap. So then how do you feel about De La, ATCQ, Run DMC, etc.? Are you into Black Star? The Roots? I saw your pro-Beastie post on the other thread.

― @@r0n h. z@nd3r$ (AaronHz), Saturday, 26 March 2005 06:22 (nineteen years ago) link

six months pass...

I don't know if this have been asked before, but is there not a non-edited version of Protect Ya Neck that exists? I've never owned the actual album, but I've downloaded countless MP3s of the song and every single one buzzes out the curse words.

― James Morris (HorrayJames), Sunday, 23 October 2005 20:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think that it exists.

― richard wood johnson, Sunday, 23 October 2005 20:19 (eighteen years ago) link

i think the tape noise/buzz that cuts out the swearing in Protect Ya Neck is actually one of the most badass sounds ever created. I love it!

― pete b. (pete b.), Sunday, 23 October 2005 20:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I SMOKE ON THE MIC LIKE SMOKIN JOE FRAZIER THE HELL RAISER, RAISIN HELL WITH THE FLAVOR! TERRORIZE THE JAM LIKE TROOPS IN PAKISTAN! SWINGIN THRU YA TOWN LIKE YA NEIGHBORHOOD SPIDERMAN! TICK TOCK KEEP TICKIN, I GETS YA FLIPPIN OFF THE SHIT IM KICKIN, THE LONE RANGER, CODE RED, DANGER! DEEP IN THE ART TO RIP THE CHARTS APART THE VANDAL, TOO HOT TO HANDLE, yoU BATTLE, YOU SAYING GOODBYE LIKE TEVIN CAMPBELL

― xc, Sunday, 23 October 2005 20:42 (eighteen years ago) link

So what's up, man? Chillin' chillin? You know why I had to post, right? Wu-Tang again? Again and again!

Pete B. OTM. "I'll be stickin' pins in ya head like a BRRRNN nurse!" It's just perfect. Also love the stupid bee sounds on the radio/video edit of "Triumph."

I fucking love this record despite its horrible missteps, which include the bad, dumb remix of "7th Chamber" would have been okay as a b-side but I'm at a loss as to why it CLOSES THE ALBUM... also, the ballad/message songs kind of drag on me after a while, although the Clan do acquit themselves well as straight-ahead storytellers.

Incidentally, what if anything does the so-called Master (Masta?) Killer do on this LP? He remains the big mystery of the Clan to me, I guess due to the fact that he seemed to be in jail or otherwise unavailable for most of their significant recording, but never got the same infamy as ODB. Somebody hit me with some of his best moments, I just can't seem to pick his voice out of the group if he even shows up at all...

― Doctor Casino, Monday, 24 October 2005 05:15 (eighteen years ago) link

There is a non edited version of Protect Ya Neck called '(Bloody Version)'. I only have it in m4a format though.

― splates (splates), Monday, 24 October 2005 05:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I've come to like the 'buzz' sound on the original

― splates (splates), Monday, 24 October 2005 05:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Master Killer isn't exactly great, but he does have the odd brilliant moment, such "Raw I'm a give it to ya/ with no trivia/ raw like cocaine straight from bolivia..." etc.
There's also the cool bit in the Triumph video where they all raise their fists during his verse.

― M Carty (mj_c), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I always thought the "raw I'm'a give it to ya" section was RZA for some reason, but the Internet is telling me it's U-God, which I definitely hear. Master Killa's verse on that track is the "Homicide's illegal and death is the penalty..." finale, which is actually pretty great ("..with the speed of a centipede"). I think maybe sometimes I think Masta Killer's stuff is the GZA for some reason...

― Doctor Casino, Monday, 24 October 2005 17:35 (eighteen years ago) link

"raw i'mma give it to ya" is u-god, and it IS pretty great.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 24 October 2005 17:41 (eighteen years ago) link

U-God: Dud or Greatest One-Verse MC of All Time?

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Monday, 24 October 2005 18:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh wait, that turns out to be a trick question: the Greatest One-Verse MC Of All Time is Deck.

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Monday, 24 October 2005 18:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Both U-God and Inspectah Deck have acquited themselves nicely as one-verse wonders on countless Wu-cuts, but since I've never actually heard any of their solo stuff I hesitate to take sides. They've certainly never produced albums anyone's recommended to me...but in any case, both have totalled up some great stuff on Wu group cuts. I think Deck does win, though, for the "I bomb atomically" verse in "Triumph."

― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 25 October 2005 03:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Bollocks, you're completely right - Master Killer does the "evidence indicates that his stature/ merciless like a terrorist/ hard to capture' verse. How shameful.
If U-God were to be a one-verse MC, it should be for his verse on Ghostface's Black Jesus. Now that really is incredible.

― M Carty (mj_c), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 03:50 (eighteen years ago) link

eight years pass...

lol jjj lemonade salesman had u backsteppin

― zero content albums (darraghmac), Monday, 22 September 2014 23:55 (nine years ago) link

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