C/D : Pink Floyd "The Division Bell"

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
-Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See

"It is for those of you who now believe,..."

"To validate the trust of those who believe,..." -Publius

"A bureaucracy and a factory are automated machines in Wiener's view. The whole world -- even the universe -- could be seen as one big feedback system subject to the relentless advance of entropy, which subverts the exchange of messages that is essential to continued existence" -M. McAdams, Wiener: Ideas

Check out the cover of Norbert Wiener's "The Human Use of Human Beings":

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:kHMcyAGNQlQJ:www.angelfire.com/co/1x137/images/humanuse.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/co/1x137/wiener.html

Gilmour himself had the best answer to this at one of his solo shows a couple years back. Someone in the audience shouted "when's the next Floyd album?" at him and he replied back "aw who gives a shit."

I haven't heard "Take It Back" or "What Do You Want From Me" in probably 9 or 10 years, but my memory wants to tell me that I would enjoy them if I heard them again. They very well could be incredibly boring songs though. Sometimes my memory tricks me. The other 2 that got radio airplay I believe were both on Echoes - "High Hopes" and the one that's like "I can't seem to think straight." I still think "High Hopes" is really good, and it has one of my friends favorite guitar solos ever. The other one is sort of catchy, but also boring.

I also don't think Pink Floyd is quite as huge with the kids these days as it was in the 90's. I see far less kids wearing Floyd t-shirts.

I don't know why I'm the only one who likes this album...

Have you listened to it??

Yeah, but not in a few years.

Although, I was just listening to "Coming Back to Life" and kinda digging it.

I seem to remember each of the 2 post-Waters studio albums having one or two reasonably pleasant tracks on them. The live albums are disasters, of course.

This one and "A Momentary Lapse" of reason are both way better than "The Final Cut".

I also don't think Pink Floyd is quite as huge with the kids these days as it was in the 90's. I see far less kids wearing Floyd t-shirts.

No wonder considering they haven't released new material since 1994.

In the 90s, you had a generation of kids who discovered them through "The Division Bell" and then started exploring their back catalogues from their dads' old record collection. Today's kids are more likely to find "Saturday Night Fever", "Never Mind The Bollocks", "Dare" or "Thriller" in their parents' record collections.

Geir having read this thread I'm not clear as to how you feel about "The Final Cut," please elucidate - all I can glean of your position is

Nice background music. Not at all up there with their best work in any way at all, but still better than "The Final Cut"

"The Final Cut" was crap

This one and "A Momentary Lapse" of reason are both way better than "The Final Cut"

I don't know why I'm the only one who likes this album...
tons of my jr high stoner buds love this album

This one and "A Momentary Lapse" of reason are both way better than "The Final Cut".

Every post-Waters Pink Floyd album, (along with Gilmour's latest solo album) taps into this supposed idea of what Pink Floyd "should sound like" -- which is evidently "blissful washes of sound, pseudo-poetic, sometimes obscure lyrics, and the guitar solo from 'Comfortably Numb.'

The turgid "Not Now John" notwithstanding, "The Final Cut" is a far more interesting and bold statement, even if its political message has necessarily aged since 1983. In a sense, though, I find that preferable to the imagined "timelessness" of everything Gilmour's done since 1984.

"Comfortably Numb" + "Echoes," I guess.

a momentary lapse of reason is one of the 3 worst albums i've ever heard

I still stand by what I said upthread

You big-up "Lost For Words", conveniently forgetting that it is almost a note-for-note rewrite of "Wish You Were Here".

Every post-Waters Pink Floyd album, (along with Gilmour's latest solo album) taps into this supposed idea of what Pink Floyd "should sound like" -- which is evidently "blissful washes of sound, pseudo-poetic, sometimes obscure lyrics, and the guitar solo from 'Comfortably Numb.'

They sound roughly like "Dark Side Of The Moon", which is fine enough for me because I like the way "Dark Side Of The Moon" sounds. "The Final Cut" sounds like the tracks from "The Wall" that I don't like (that is, not "Comfortably Numb", which is by far the best thing on that double)

I've always loved the Final Cut. But I seem to like it for the same reasons I DON'T like the Pros and Cons of Hitch-hiking. There's a tuneless monotony to both, but for some reason TFC resonates and I remember every song, whereas TPACOH-H I can't recall anything other than the title cut. For the record, I do like Animals, Meddle, Wish You Were Here, Gilmour's first solo album, parts of The Wall, and the Syd-era...but Division Bell is something I can't even contemplate. Though maybe like the Stones' Undercover, I will one day find joy in the perversity.

If this should happen, I will probably also be found raving about the new Chad Kroeger solo album and talking to buildings. Do NOT try and help me at that point. Let me stay at rock bottom and learn my lesson.

Is there a pink floyd albums poll?

this isn't really terrible

If you sync up The Division Bell to the Tom Hanks-Meg Ryan movie "You've Got Mail," the many coincidences that arise are amazing.

-- blonry

^^^^^

i haven't listened to pink floyd in years but i remember "high hopes" off this album being decent.

Yah, "Astronomy Domine" was first. Possibly the best moment of the show as it was just the three of them recreating the UFO club as best they could. As much as I love how Gilmour constructs his guitar bits, he needs to free-form freakout more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0siszbObCcw

One great obscure track from this era is "Soundscape" - a 22 minute long ambient piece that was played as the opening of all the Division Bell shows. It later turned up on the PULSE cassette tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwNYq-c0lBw

my drummer that smokes mad weed but is in great physical shape loves this album

― charleston charge (chaki), Saturday, 16 April 2005 01:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

^^haunts my thoughts

also I was wrong, maybe it is terrible. I thought a defense could be mounted, like it sounds like a surprisingly decent album by a generic '80s band that you'd be happy to find in a $1 vinyl bin. but as a mid-1990s Floyd record yeah it's just a bit of a slog to put it mildly.

my drummer that smokes mad weed but is in great physical shape loves this album

i'm trying to understand what insights I am supposed to derive from this comment.

I haven't really bothered with post-Animals Pink Floyd albums (I think this is largely justified), but something about the the Division Bell, really catches my interest... probably the mysterious album art has something to do with it. I've only heard two songs off the album. The last track, "High Hopes," is very haunting, and I like it quite a bit. How's the rest of the album?
― Vestigial Appendages, Esq. (King Kobra), Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:40 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Pink Fraud.
― shookout (shookout), Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:45 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Stink Floyd.
― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:46 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so much ownage

http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/299768/20535/bild-37910.JPG
I drove a 2nd hand VW Gold Pink Floyd for a couple of years (a red one). It did survive my first accident, but the second crash totalled the car...

The soundscape referenced upthread was cool as hell in the live setting--it probably was the best and perhaps only good use of a giant arena- 360 degree sound at a moment when people were still filing in and no one was really paying close attention, so you could really hear it clearly. I remember the show being pretty damn cool overall, having come around at probably my Peak Floyd period.

I love The Final Cut.
overall I prefer A Momentary Lapse to Division Bell, but from the latter I really dig three songs: Cluster One, Poles Apart, and High Hopes. also, I like Rick Wright's track.
I thought Take It Back sounded more like Simple Minds circa Street Fighting Years (another album I love) than U2.

http://www.divisionbell20.com/

Publius Enigma

still have never come around on this record

just gave it another listen though and enjoyed it for what it is.

Can't remember who said it, but one of the funniest things I've ever heard was that review/tweet/whatever that said of that stupid James Franco Wizard of Oz prequel, "This movie sucks so bad it probably syncs up with The Division Bell."

Correction: it was an ILX post!

This movie is gonna suck so bad that it will sync up with The Division Bell

― Your spectacular host (Viceroy), Friday, March 15, 2013 7:12 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

amazing

would have also accepted Momentary Lapse of Reason but Division Bell rings funnier

**long sigh**

I like the Division Bell.

Loud lol at that post

my drummer that smokes mad weed but is in great physical shape loves this album

― charleston charge (chaki), Friday, April 15, 2005 6:04 PM (fifteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

i think i've become the kind of person who smokes mad weed and loves this album

"take it back" -> "coming back to life," that's the good shit

also "poles apart"! "marooned"! i can't/can believe this thread is full of people saying everything but "high hopes" sucks

pink floyd rules

If A Momentary Lapse of Reason is Pink Floyd at their most dad rock, The Division Bell feels like some kind of post-dad rock stage. I think that the tour for this album and the subsequent release of Pulse did rehabilitate the band for a new generation of listeners.

revisiting momentary was really depressing, i might be alone in this but i think it sounds even less like pink floyd than the final cut. "sorrow," "terminal frost," "one slip" all great though. "learning to fly" never did much for me

also feels like it goes on forever. which tbf so does the division bell but i like it in that case

If you sync up The Division Bell to the Tom Hanks-Meg Ryan movie "You've Got Mail," the many coincidences that arise are amazing.

― blonry, Friday, April 15, 2005 2:57 PM (fifteen years ago)

that extended slide guitar solo that runs the second half of High Hopes is really epic & tastefully done. that whole song is nice, actually.

otherwise, this album sucks.

this album rules, it’s sooooo beautiful

I really like the idea of it being beautiful, and if I could just get past the stigma of well... Pink Floyd in the 90's (which really shouldn't preclude my embracing it, especially in my older and more impartial stage of life), I daresay I could come round.

i hated it for many years so i get it! but i have embraced the corn

Is there a name for the kind of melody you get in the chorus of 'A Great Day For Freedom', where you get the general 'Just One Cornetto' / 'When Girls Get Together' vibe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22z03ZQtpe8

The only thing I hear in common between those three melodies is maybe starting on a chord suspension?

The best thing about The Division Bell is that Gilmour and co. have their confidence back, there isn't the paralyzing fear that departing six inches from the Floyd template is going to lose them their audience. So they can do something as sunny as "Coming Back to Life", which unfortunately also sounds like a lifeless bedroom recording with fake drums that goes on for 6 minutes.
The worst thing is all these tiresome quarrelsome lyrics playing with the audience: "is it about Roger? Maybe it could be...!" Also it's twenty minutes longer than A Momentary Lapse of Reason and probably even slower. My pick from this era is the Pulse version of "A Great Day For Freedom", it gets the epic feel without running it into the ground.

I stan mildly for this album and Reason mostly because they're... as good as Pink Floyd ever were imo? Which is fine

this is one of those records I really want to like better than I do, and I keep coming back to it, and saying, it's fine, but I keep hoping it will seem super great

mighty challops. i appreciate the take.

xp

It's not really a champ, Pink Floyd are this band of many phases and eras that have periods that are over-romanticized (Syd), overlooked (soundtracks), overpraised (Dark Side), inexplicably popular (The Wall), vilified (Dave-era). It all sounds of the same level of quality to me with the exception of The Final Cut which is possibly the worst album I've ever heard

*challop ha

xpost have you not heard Pros & Cons Of Hitchhiking then?

while it's true that people flog the romance of the Syd era, Piper remains one of the most astonishing displays of genuine songwriting -- virtuosity, I want to say, but the very thing that makes it so appealing is its evident ease, the fluidity of it. it's easy for people to talk the wrong way about Syd, but of Piper one can only say -- what an unparalleled collection of tunes, very hard to overrate

i like it but i really got into pink floyd with momentary lapse of reason then the wall then everything before and finally the final cut which i did not like or any of roger waters solo stuff!

Pink Floyd are this band of many phases and eras

There's a continuity that goes undetected all too often, though, especially between the Syd stuff and everything after. "Oh, it was a completely different band with Syd" - Nonsense! Many different styles and approaches, sure, and they previewed almost all of them on or before their second album. PatGoD is the template.

virtuosity, I want to say, but the very thing that makes it so appealing is its evident ease, the fluidity of it.

For me the Syd era is characterized by the jarring stiffness of the ensemble and their trepidatious and tentative approach to improvisation and musical exploration, which they retain afterwards to an extent. Mason's approach on Nick's Boogie/Saucerful of Secrets' is intuitive to the point that it almost sounds like he's never played the drums before. Fluidity is something I feel Gilmour introduces, at least in a musical sense.

I think it's Syd's internal rhyming that creates the jolly quality of his songs, or the lightness, and his words tend to dictate the meter of the music. I agree that this material does not lay bare the effort involved the way the post-Syd, pre-Dark Side material does.

Piper one can only say -- what an unparalleled collection of tunes, very hard to overrate

hard agree there

PUBLIUS

With Syd's songs, where the music is set to borrowed words instead of his own lyrics, like 'Chapter 24' or 'Golden Hair', the songwriting doesn't have that same sprightly feel.

I think for some, you might be able to dig this one more if you forget about the pedigree of the brand name and just think of it as a Gilmour record. Really even including the Wall - I kinda think Floyd as a working band ended sometime after the tour for Animals.

I do think they got a bit more of the Floyd feel on this one compared to any of the other post Animals records, probably helping that they pretty much jammed it out together as a trio.

"Wearing the Inside Out" I think has a twinkle of ye' old 60s twee in that 90s production myself.

I have to revisit the Syd era, I think. I haven’t listened to Saucerful since I was a teenager. It was when I was a teenager too that I realized that the songs on The Wall I liked (loved, even) were the two Gilmour singles.

Meddle is my favourite album by these guys and Echoes my favourite song— “San Tropez” is a rare instant of their novelty songs working for me

It’s interesting that Deflatormouse feels this band had a template… I can’t think of any other band that I view more as “five different bands” depending on what era and what songwriter was at work. Gilmour records are to me like Peter Gabriel records. I need to check out the most recent one too I think

Right, the only way the view of "five different Floyds" makes sense to me is through a lens of songwriting, which is possibly the wrong approach (at least in my view).

Maybe the 2nd album is the template, rather than the first. For one thing, Saucerful is the first time there's some underlying question of 'how are we going to fill a whole album?' at the core of a Pink Floyd LP, and that continues through everything up to Atom Heart Mother at the very least, probably later- Wish You Were Here for example still has a sense of that. Songwriting doesn't seem to have come easily or naturally to any of them except Barrett and *maybe* Wright (to whom it doesn't seem to have come frequently).

I agree with everything earlnash says pretty much, and again i think it's largely the lyrics by Polly Samson that give it the feel of a Gilmour album to the extent that it feels like a Gilmour album.