The Mamas and the Papas C/D

I thought the "Stopped into a church..." segment was hers...

that's more than a lot of other people have done to earn their songwriting credits.

Is Denny Doherty's solo album any good?

True.

is that "Wolf King of LA" or something like that? I've been looking to pick that up.

The only good thing to come out of their careers would be the episode of scooby-doo with Mama Cass

Easy to sneer at, but unbelievable, swooning gorgeousness.

They're remembered and judged on a few songs, most of which have become so overplayed and ingrained that they're overlooked. Looking further into their catalogues (and into Cass and John's solo stuff) is rewarding.

Class act.

i saw the documentary thing they show on PBS every funraising drive again a few weeks ago, though, and it left me wondering if michelle phillips ever did much but look pretty.

The one that focuses on connecting them to Lovin' Spoonful is rahter insightful.

wow they're so good, huh?

Classic classic classic. Love the evocations of "Twelve-Thirty," the goose that is "Words of Love," the winsome maturity of the outlook on "Look Through My Window."

And to Dan S. -
Is Denny Doherty's solo album any good?

It's worth a listen, but not several. Morbid, depressing, seemingly every song about being aimless and mired in ennui and maybe a little drunk. And he'd cut a little off the high end of his voice.

My review of Waiting for a Song for AMG, which says pretty much the same thing: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kzfyxqr5ldse

I like the Mugwumps album. Denny blows his mind on "Can't Judge A Book By Lookin' At Its Cover," and Cass rocks Broadway way six years before Bette Midler's debut (she was prob still in Honolulu in '66)I think the Big Three and some other pre M&Ps albums are around too; I know I saw the Highwaymen on Amazon.

"I saw her-" is top 5 anything any day.

<3 michelle

Let me just add a Yeah to that.

Christgau's reviews of the two '90s/'00s collections really get them.

I've really gotta get some of their records. I've just heard the singles (like everyone else on the planet), but I've always been blown away by their vocal harmonizing. A compilation of their best work (not just "hits," but choice album cuts, b-sides etc,) would be my go-to pick. Any suggestions?

Gold is a good one that's in print.

Try to find a copy of All The Leaves Are Brown; it is everything they recorded in the initial run (i.e., nothing from contractual obligation People Like Us) on 2 cds. I think you'll find out that even the stuff you've never heard is mostly amazing.

And someone played a Beach Boys song
On the jukebox
It was "California Dreamin'"
So we started screamin'
"On such a winter's day"

I hate it when you order hot tea and they only have it "iced"

btw, got any Def Leppard t-shirts?

Their version of Twist and Shout is so barbituately bizarre.

parents had a ton of their stuff. Them and the Lovin Spoonful. The Spoonful seem like more fun to me, never been able to get into this shlock.

Ouch.

L.A.-rock drugs-and-sex can be traced to stuff like "Straight Shooter."

Classic..if only for Snowqueen of Texas. Little-known song really worth a look.

^^^ yes, people like us v. underrated. just picked up that dave mason/cass eliot joint, first impression is good

I second the idea that "I Saw Her" is top five anything and that Michelle was sexy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8272229.stm

The daughter of John Phillips, leader of 1960s group the Mamas and the Papas, has claimed she had a 10-year sexual relationship with her late father.

Mackenzie Phillips, a former child TV star, alleges the incestuous liaison - disclosed in her recently published memoir - began in 1979 when she was 19.

Speaking on The Oprah Winfrey Show, she said the relationship was a "betrayal".

Phillips' claims have been disputed by Genevieve Waite, her father's wife at the time of the alleged abuse.

In a statement read out by Winfrey, she said John Phillips was "incapable, no matter how drunk or drugged he was, of having such a relationship with his own child."

Mackenzie Phillips starred in 1970s sitcom One Day at a Time and appeared in George Lucas's 1973 film American Graffiti.

The 49-year-old has a long history of drug abuse and was arrested for possession of cocaine and heroin last year.

'Abuse of power'

In her book, entitled High on Arrival, she alleges she first had sexual intercourse with her father on the night before she was to be married to a member of the Rolling Stones' entourage.

"I woke up that night from a blackout to find myself having sex with my own father," she writes.

Phillips describes those first sexual encounters as rape - but says the relationship later became consensual and ended when she fell pregnant.

She was unsure who had fathered the child and claims to have had an abortion paid for by her father.

"I never let him touch me again," she told Winfrey, calling the alleged incest "an abuse of power".

But she said she forgave her father on his deathbed in 2001, describing him as "very tortured man".

John Phillips married four times, having Mackenzie - his oldest daughter - with his first wife Susan Adams.

He formed the Mamas and the Papas with his second wife Michelle, whom he divorced in 1970.

In a statement, Michelle Phillips said her stepdaughter's public disclosure was "an unfortunate circumstance" and "very hurtful for our entire family".

One of the most popular bands of the 1960s, the Mamas and the Papas are best known for their hits California Dreamin' and Monday, Monday.

Mackenzie Phillips' half-sister Chynna had pop success with 1990s group Wilson Phillips.

ahh
The "I am glad I am not Mackenzie Phillips" thread

Classic

god i love these guys

Words of Love drives me crazy

i actually kind of dislike the brand of harmonies they favor (wish someone could explain what precisely this translates to in music-theory terms), even though they are obviously better at them than most.

that said, a few of their songs are just killer, extremely well-constructed. like "safe in my garden."

the thing that sold me on "California Dreamin'" after being sick of it
(due to years of its ubiquity on Oldies stations & whatnot)
is watching Mama Cass dance around.
She does this weird wiggle thing with her feet when she sings.
Also the lead singer on the verse does these funny head motions.
Plus Michelle is cute.

Here is a perf. of "CA Dreamin'" on the Hullaballoo show
complete with dancing girls (which the Papas seem to enjoy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emuiQkGMc9k

faced with the choice i'd much rather have hung out in the 60s taking acid with Cass and Michelle rather than say Dylan.
i mean they look like a lot of fun right?
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm87/sadeyedlady89/Michelle/Rock-Roll-059-Cass-Elliot-Michelle-.jpg

Any plans of reissuing their four 60s albums. I know the debut album was reissued in 1998 or so, but I would still love a reissue/remaster of all four, with bonus tracks etc. There was a complete anthology released a few years ago, but I believe it is now replaced with a box set that is not as complete.

The Complete Anthology is still available from Amazon in the US - it's an import from Europe so you should be able to find it. If not, the quality of the first four records on the 2-disc All The Leaves Are Brown anthology is excellent, and you get a few mono singles as a bonus.

No Salt on Her Tail - this alone makes them classic

faced with the choice i'd much rather have hung out in the 60s taking acid with Cass and Michelle rather than say Dylan.
i mean they look like a lot of fun right?

Somewhere I've got a Life or Look magazine w/an article on the group when they were peaking. In it, John claimed that they'd been in talks to do a film with Fellini. He felt it was a good pairing because "after all, we kind of are 8 1/2." Judging from stories since told, he was sorta right.

mama overjoyed in the presence of food

Just stumbled over this terrific clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aYAUE6is7I&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58hY1OtBlDQ

"monday monday" is one weird-ass piece of songwriting. they step through four keys in the course of the song, going up a half step from the "monday monday" part to the "every other day" part, then another half step when they return for the next "monday monday" part and yet another half step when they go back to "every other day." but that's not the weird part. that's just '60s pop fun. the weird part is that the second chord of each "monday monday" part is the same chord as the second chord of the accompanying "every other day" part even though the parts are a half-step apart. that chord really shouldn't work in both parts. but it does. wikipedia says the song is in chromatic-minor and features the neapolitan chord. i have no idea what any of that means except that the neapolitan chord makes me hungry for ice cream. and that i love everything about this song.

That was one of the best posts I have ever read.

Cass Elliot died 40 years ago today. Wonderful voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_phmZG9bMY

There's a little bit on Mama Cass's death in this John Phillips documentary around 41:00, including some emotional reaction from Phillips concerning her voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTbLds3BAPM

I've been really into her post-group solo albums lately. It's a shame they're so overlooked.

I only have one of her own LPs, but love this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-4_uyKrH1U

I've been really into her post-group solo albums lately. It's a shame they're so overlooked.

Hmmmmm, not convinced by them tbh, material often isn't worthy of her and, anyway, seems like she could never work out quite what or where she was supposed to be... musically. Interestingly the songs written by her sister are very often the best things on her solo albums.

I remember the news of Cass's death... I was visiting Washington DC with my dad when I heard, just before Nixon resigned. She did a lot of TV variety shows in the solo period.

There's an interview that goes with the clip I posted, from the Mike Douglas Show, where she's really charming and funny but noticeably coy about revealing her real name, I suppose being Jewish was still too 'ethnic' for the world at large?

This is nice. Gotta cut some slack for the duet partner, seeing as he wrote it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKdknYaSHgE

I'm sure they wanted to mention Nixon by name but couldn't.

I read "California Dreaming" - a graphic novel about Cass's life leading up to joining the Mamas & the Papas. This is really very good! The best graphic novel/comic book biography I've read. Unlike some other such efforts, the characters here are very well drawn and quite deep. Cass sounds like such a cool person. Good story too - about persistence and being talented with life challenges and all that. Makes you wish you could've met her. Totally recommend this if you are remotely interested in her or the band. It's a fancy hardback book that you can probably get in a decent library like I did.

Just watched Monterey Pop on the big screen last night , and they were glorious at that show.

Plus the shot of Mama Cass's reaction (in the audience, mind blown) at the end of Janis's "Ball and Chain" was the highlight of the documentary for me... not least because it echoed exactly what I was feeling.

Makes you wish you could've met her.

Every bit of footage I've ever seen of her, whether performing or being interviewed, she just radiates friendliness. Tried to find this priceless Sullivan clip where Ed basically blanks out during the post-performance banter, much to the amusement of Cass and the group, but can't--it's in a John Phillips documentary that's disappeared from YouTube.

House across the street is blasting California Dreaming by the Mamas and Papas right now and it sounds so good. Even floating through the air from a slightly cracked kitchen window, it sounds great.

Outtake from the first album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPis-2HP3Ow

seems like she could never work out quite what or where she was supposed to be...musically.

I think the intent of that first album is quite clear, actually - a sort of affinity for a particular type of contemporary songwriting. I find it to be pretty cohesive. The album it reminds me most of is Chelsea Girl.

brotherlovesdub OTM

(xp) Yes, but she abandoned that approach pretty quickly, I guess because it didn't sell.

The Mann-Weill singles that followed are fantastic, though. Especially the first two. They have to be some of her most virtuosic performances.

I feel like putting The Papas and the Mamas on that 'last classic album you were knocked out by' thread (though I don't really know what its reputation is). That thing is something.

When I went looking for that John Phillips documentary the other day, discovered something I didn't know: Denny Doherty released a couple of solo albums in the early '70s. Checked Amazon, a little pricey, so I explored other options...sorry Denny Doherty estate.

The first one, Watcha Gonna Do, has a cover of "Got a Feelin'," my favourite Mamas & Papas song. You'd think that one would be a cinch, but Doherty's version is just okay--the exaggeratedly deep voice he pulls out for some of it is off-putting. The best thing on there for me is the weird Hank Williams cover, "Hey Good Lookin'," that was evidently unfinished. "Tuesday Morning"'s pretty good too. The second album, Waiting for a Song, didn't make an impression.

The documentary is Straight Shooter. Besides the Sullivan clip I mention above, there's another really sad clip of John and Michelle guesting on Doherty's Canadian TV show in the late '70s. John's in the throes of heroin addiction, and as he starts rambling during some post-song banter, the other two look mortified.

"Mansions," you guys...

Cloudy waters cast no reflection
Images of beauty lie there stagnant
Vibrations bounce in no direction
And lie there shattered into fragments

classic - i saw her again
monday morning
california dreaming

don't know much else tbh

"monday monday" is one weird-ass piece of songwriting. they step through four keys in the course of the song, going up a half step from the "monday monday" part to the "every other day" part, then another half step when they return for the next "monday monday" part and yet another half step when they go back to "every other day." but that's not the weird part. that's just '60s pop fun. the weird part is that the second chord of each "monday monday" part is the same chord as the second chord of the accompanying "every other day" part even though the parts are a half-step apart. that chord really shouldn't work in both parts. but it does. wikipedia says the song is in chromatic-minor and features the neapolitan chord. i have no idea what any of that means except that the neapolitan chord makes me hungry for ice cream. and that i love everything about this song.

― fact checking cuz, Monday, 25 June 2012 07:10 (six years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That was one of the best posts I have ever read.

― banjoboy, Monday, 25 June 2012 09:35 (six years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

otm

Watched the Criterion 'Monterey Pop' blu ray last week; Cass's dumbstruck-and-awestruck reaction to Janis Joplin is the absolute highlight.

the weird part is that the second chord of each "monday monday" part is the same chord as the second chord of the accompanying "every other day" part even though the parts are a half-step apart. that chord really shouldn't work in both parts. but it does.

I think it works because it's actually, for a moment there, the tonic chord.

Whoever plays her in Once Upon a Time...In Hollywood is good--you just see her (excitedly, theatrically leading Sharon Tate and Michelle Phillips onto the dance floor at the Playboy Mansion), but there's real presence in the way she bounds onto the floor. She shows up in Rocketman, too, or at least her name does; Elton and Bernie Taupin head over to a party at Mama Cass's after their first Troubadour show. She's widely seen as the number-one central figure of Laurel Canyon in the late '60s. Someone should make a real documentary on her (there've been a couple of TV things, and another one on the whole band).

Cass’s version of Judee Sill’s “Jesus Was a Cross Maker” off her S/T album fucking owns.

^ yeah! and a cover of "Disney Girls" on the same album? amazing

Michelle Phillips' birthday (77). Three of the most beautiful music-related moments on film ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP7OKxjObNo

"dedicated to the one i love" is a tiktok trend!

https://www.tiktok.com/@godsbigrod/video/6965170299545390341?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1

Michelle's birthday today, 79.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A5M0YaUkOY

(Yes--my favorite song by them.)

Oops--meant to post a different clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35R47Ws_Mh8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2710NcijHY