t/s: battle of the electric postbop protokozmigroovers - eddie harris vs eddie henderson vs donald byrd vs freddie hubbard vs bobby hutcherson

Byrd In Hand – hard bop
Electric Byrd – soul jazz
Black Byrd – jazz/funk fusion
Spaces & Places – R&B/disco fusion

freddie hubbard is just as prolific & less consistent IMO. he's better as a sideman than leader, appears on TONS of classic blue note sessions. Maiden Voyage, Out To Lunch, Speak No Evil, Doin Alright The Turnaround and so on.

also on bobby hutcherson's Stick-Up! try freddie's Hub Tones or Breaking Point. see also CTI albums like Red Clay but those arrangements are a little slick for my taste.

eddie harris played an amplified sax on a lot of his Atlantic albums, never cared for the sound myself. but I love his super-slick mid 70s funk album I Need Some Money .

eddie henderson I'm barely familiar with. what am I missing?

eddie henderson - was given 3 mp3 albums. never listened to them. i've been off the jazz for a while, but getting more into it. should pull them out. they're supposed to sound like Mwandishi? i just listened to that this weekend and was well impressed again.

Donald Byrd - love New Perspective (big vocal choruses). love Places & Spaces and Stepping into Tomorrow.

Freddie Hubbard - love his cti stuff. Red Clay, Keep Your Soul Together, Straight Life are all amazing.

Bobby Hutcherson - Now! is one of my fave albums. Huge vocal, eugene mcdaniels singing. Linger Lane is great. San Francisco is ho hum.

Freddie is great, although I prefer his pre-electric w the exception of "Red Clay"

Donald Byrd is so good, I'm surprised more producers haven't sampled his stuff from a New Perspective.

I've never really listened to the Eddies.

I've yet to hear a unified Eddie Harris album though I suppose that's what endeared him to many. I keep hoping that someone would compile all of his free funk comprovisations-- "Free Speech", "Abstractions" "Conversations of Everything & Nothing", others?

There's more than one Belgrave reissue?

I guess I'd probably go with Byrd.

personally, i'm leaning towards donald byrd right now just because of "electric byrd", which is better than "bitches brew" or "in a silent way" or just about any electric fusion set i can think of, but i definitely need to hear more eddie harris.

is the "electrifying eddie harris"/"plug me in" two-fer the place to start with eddie?

also hubbard is fantastic but doesn't seem to have tons of depth in his catalog. what's beyond "red clay" and "straight life"? "backlash" is OK but not really kozmic, everything else good seems to be your standard trad-modal mellow comping sets.

finally, re: hutcherson, which do you like better - "montara" or "san francisco"? classic, or dud? i have a feeling both are a little too ... bob james to be serious comp for byrd or hubbard.

eddie henderson = no-show! no love for "sunburst"?

ok, wow. those are some big words. i'm gonna have to throw it on right now (don't think i've ever even heard the whole thing through.

I'll vouch for Henderson's first three. Beyond that (through Running to Your Love, at least), they get spotty. Tuomas mentioned the greatness of Sunburst above and I'm certain that both of us commented on it on another recent thread.

I'm missing a couple Hubbards from '68-'75, but I either like or love just about all of the ones I do have -- The Black Angel, Red Clay, First Light Sky Dive, Polar AC. Love love LOVE the Stylistics cover on Polar AC.

Really gotta get my hands on some more Harris and Young.

are these really hard to get? i've heard people talk about them like they are.

It's good to note that Eddie Henderson took a s stylistic leap with his move to Blue Note that paralleled Herbie's move from Mwandishi to Headhunters (despite Eddie having retained more of the original sextet.) I'm with Andy K's warning re. post-SUNBURST joints, with the exception that the second half of Eddie's HERITAGE is as strong as anything on SUNBURST.

Vahid, get the Hubbard/Turrentine LIVE IN CONCERT. Or check eMusic for the Celluloid reissue under Herbie's name (LIVE:DETROIT/CHICAGO), with BOTH versions of "Hornets." Hubbard's KEEP YOUR SOUL TOGETHER and HIGH ENERGY-- his first for Columbia-- are on par with Eddie Henderson's first two Blue Notes (though not his Capricorns.) Prolly Japanese-only CDs, if that.

Dammit, I gotta get my turntable fixed.

practically half the songs on the mo'wax compilations "headz" and "royalties overdue" sample from hutcherson's "san francisco"???

OK i still need to get the eddie harris and henderson albums people having been raving about ... but now, on the strength of "san francisco" alone, i am willing to call hutcherson the leading horse in the byrd / hubbard / hutcherson sweepstakes.

jaxon! why did you call it hohum?

??? just listened to EB this week and while it's good bump & grind soul jazz it's a far cry from IASW and BB!!!

I love how Sunburst moves from fusion to free-form blwoing.

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd000/d098/d0989262085.jpg

pretty grover washington, but i like it

you want "pressure sensitive"

also HOLY SHIT @ jan hammer "melodies", thank u andy k for helping me see the light??

hmm yeah some of the 'funk' on this is sounding kind of hokey actually, was just v. excited by the first track

isnt that the dude that did the miami vice theme (i wish to god i could remember why i knew that) xp

ugh yeah man never mind my endorsement of this, its actually pretty wack beyond 'lets keep it together'

yeah, miami vice soundtrack. (it's on leo right now). but hammer has done some fucking epic shit. even some of the tracks on the vice soundtrack are amazing. he's on that al dimeola album i told you to check for the other day in the dollar bin and one of the seriously best songs ever made. "Juice Harp" by David Earle Johnson. i originally found this on bumrocks, but put down some cash to find the record.
http://www.robotsinheat.com/temp/Juice%20Harp.mp3

oh, and obviously he was in Mahavishnu Orchestra. Inner Mounting Flame is one of the best albums EVER.

this is also a seriously great rec, esp. the title track:

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/311YJPK8K0L._AA240_.jpg

shit kids why am I just discovering this stuff

I feel like a huge asshole

also though why isn't Les McCann on here at all? Especially "Layers" I mean wtf it's arp jazz and robert hood kind of ripped off the album cover for internal empire!

also amazon reviewer who complained about "the dude" on electric byrd: you are are out of your fucking mind

it is not weird that you are just discovering this stuff because you are like the poster boy for square dudes.

Oh, fuck you.

eddie henderson = no-show! no love for "sunburst"?

-- vahid (vahid), Friday, February 17, 2006 3:24 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

I never saw this thread, but I love Sunburst, especially Kumquat Kids and the title track, which has that awesome fuzzy intro.

i'm kinda over this stuff.

alright seeya

jordan this is better shit for folks who otherwise dont give a shit about jazz to get into than, like, ornette coleman corny avant fuxxors

hey, I give a shit about jazz. I just don't like a lot of trumpet, which is a handicap. EG I gave Sunburst a good listen but couldn't get into it.

Kind of unrelated btw but the Jeff Beck + Jan Hammer Live album is hilarious

I realize that irony has no place in serious music enjoyment but if I'm paying $7 for something I can chuckle to myself while playing air instruments all I please

you should listen to red clay and straight life anyway

I saw Eddie Henderson once a few years back at the Jazz Standard with the late great Hilton Ruiz. Pretty cool. I also very much enjoyed his liner notes for Miles's Someday My Prince Will Come, where he talks about Miles attitude towards Coltrane ("He lost his mind and can't play no more") and Hank Mobley (mimes hitting somebody over head with trumpet when hears fluffed notes) and describes why the people loved so much the first quintet in its various incarnations. Also like the fact that he is a psychiatrist (psychologist?)

Check it out Eddie Henderson: Healing With Music.

pretty grover washington, but i like it

deej, have you heard the Kudu-era Grover albums? I think you'd really dig those.

wow what a story thanks james redd.

sunburst might be my favorite fusion album, spaced-out and funked-up at the same time.

i was rong upthread about freddie hubbard on cti, red clay & straight life are straight-ahead/swingin'.

Les McCann + Eddie Harris - "Cold Duck Time"

^ one of my all-time favorite recordings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWt815iow0k

didn't realize there was a video!

this was the first time any of them had seen the music (except Harris). Trumpet solo is super off-the-rails wicked.

electric byrd is an awesome record, guys

I repeat, electric byrd is an awesome record, also, "the dude" is the fuckin' jam. Pretty much the best track ever for doing the morning stretch dance, you know, how you do the whole crick the neck and rub your hands and work your elbows like you just got up in the morning and have a lot of serious swaggering to do that day, but be funky about the process.

awesome spaced out sounds all around this one

uh talking about Electric Byrd

I'm seeing bobby hutcherson Saturday

dexter wansel belongs in this conversation. manzel too.

amazing video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-4NTZSkzAE

All about this tune today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK3nYwxO9q8

surprised this is the only Bobby Hutcherson thread, but RIP ... one of the greats
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/17/arts/music/bobby-hutcherson-dies-jazz.html?_r=0

gave out to lunch a listen for the first time in a while last week and his playing on that is so cool.

Also love his first (released) Blue Note alb as leader, Dialogue - one of the three or four most 'out' Blue Note discs for def, and what a line-up - Andrew Hill, Sam Rivers, Freddie Hubbard, Richard Davis, Joe Chambers

Dialogue is great!

RIP

damn, RIP. saw him live a few years ago on his birthday and it was excellent even though he had slowed down a lot. great band, had another vibe player that was a total shredder. i swear they did a cover of the jan hammer/jeff beck song "blue wind".

24hr memorial broadcast right now on WKCR:
https://www.cc-seas.columbia.edu/wkcr/story/bobby-hutcherson-memorial-broadcast

he had a ridiculous amount of great albums from 66-72

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJLQAYWD_55/

He was such a positive and creative force. Always challenging himself to the very end, his last album Enjoy the View has the feel of one of his classic Blue Note albums from the late 60's. Just a huge personality that emanated good feelings.

jammed san francisco three times yesterday -- such an excellent LP, occasionally leaning in the CTI soul funk direction, but never getting too syrupy, and plenty of really edgy playing.

I think, when it's all said and done, San Francisco may just be my favorite album of his. But, holy hell, what a ridiculously difficult choice.

Head On has always been my favorite, but then I just listened to San Francisco for the very first time yesterday. Damn, why did I not know that album?

Head On is great, a little artier/more challenging ... iirc the bonus tracks on the CD reissue are pretty fantastic too.

Thanks to bargain bins, I’ve spent more time with Hutcherson’s supposedly lesser albums, and there’s a lot to love!

'Knuckle Bean,' 'Highway One' and 'Solo/Quartet' are all really cool listens.

The A-Side of ‘Solo/Quartet’ is Hutcherson alone playing vibes, marimba and other percussion via overdubbing. It’s spacey, sort of ambient and almost gives me the same kind of vibe as the Japanese “environmental music” that’s all the rage these days. I love the track 'Gotcha': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAJqCPDVePU

great find

man, been on a bobby hutcherson kick again lately and was going to post one of the solo tracks myself! that single side of that album is just unbelievable. it's not on any streaming service in full! that stuff feels like "loop station" jams two decades before that was even possible. such a unique thing, i would have been over the moon with a full album of material like that. as it stands, it's just a completely amazing anomaly in his catalogue.

going for my second listen of the day on harold land's the peace-maker from 1968. one of the lesser-discussed projects in their series of collaborations and holy hell, what a masterpiece. harold is at his coltrane-inspired best, writing all but one of the tunes. he really blacks out on the opening title track. there's an uncredited (afaict) harmonica (!!) performance on "stylin`" and the mighty buster williams is on bass throughout. such a gem of an album, i can't believe that it's still never received a proper u.s. reissue. highly recommended.

This just arrived in the mail.

https://i.imgur.com/W4ekt28.jpg

STILL. SEALED.

Chuckling at myself heavily atm.

Haven't heard the whole album in years. Will play it and report back.

Oh, it's wonderful of course and I still absolutely love it. Second half was a lot more enjoyable than I remembered it and McCoy Tyner sounds as great as ever (but I am also much more excited to hear it this time). Nothing beats side A though. I think I like it so much because it was just a unique thing for a jazz guy to do a Mike Oldfield kind of setup. And it's just filled with all of those lovely percussive harmonic layers give it a very exotic feel. Almost Martin Denny meets Miles Davis — so much fun! Very classic album in desperate need of a proper reissue.

*; gives

Classic! Might have to whip out the record now.

I find no fault in doing so! Used vinyl leaning towards the cheapish end for now, but going up (just like everything else!). Worth every penny, I'd say.

this Calvin Keys album that was reissued recently is so great: https://www.discogs.com/master/592769-Calvin-Keys-Proceed-With-Caution

have been really rockin hubbard's keep your soul together lately

How has Grant Green not been mentioned yet in this thread? Alive and Live At The Lighthouse are both in the pantheon here. Also Herbie Hancock's Fat Albert Rotunda.

(I'm definitely going to check out Solo/Quartet based on Austin's write-up... I'm only familiar with San Francisco and Montara)

not exactly the right thread for this, but then again i can trace the discovery of the opening tune here back to cooldix's march 2020 post. so here's my covid summer jazz mixtape, which i gave to a friend and promptly forgot about until tonight while rummaging through old cassettes in his basement:

https://soundcloud.com/arquivo_fssr/covid-summer-jazz-mixtape

1. bobby hutcherson - gotcha
2. binder quintet w/ john tchicai - közép-európai zajongások (excerpt)
3. dave holland and sam rivers - conference of the birds
4. chico freeman - kings of mali
5. harmut geerken and john tchicai - invocations for angels and demons
6. don cherry and latif khan - airmail
7. wendell harrison - where am i
8. ?
9. the pyramids - black man and woman of the nile

props to anyone who can help me ID track 8. starts around 46:40, it's a live recording with like a bongo solo, then a flute joins in, and then a band comes in briefly before it fades out.

I never really considered checking out that Solo/Quartet album (solo vibes? from 1980?!), but listening to "Gotcha" now, I realize the error of my ways. I should have just trusted Austin.

I'm definitely going to check out Solo/Quartet based on Austin's write-up

― enochroot, Wednesday, March 30, 2022

Heh, ok, I guess I did consider it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c15pI0i9JAc

eddie henderson - say you will

this is music from heaven

Nice. Now that I have a working turntable setup at home again I'm scooping up some Eddie Harris records, because you can always find them cheap and they always have some delights. Last one was Live at Newport, which has 1) a fantastic drum sound (with conveniently naked samples on the second track) and 2) at least a few bangers, including a cool 'reed trumpet' solo.