Trout Mask Replica?

Man, this guy was something. I was once floored by Trout Mask Replica and that might just be the most interesting thing the magic band did. Were they officially psych-o-delic? I thought he and Zappa shunned drugs for some reason (or was that some stupid act)? I can listen to Safe As Milk or Mirror Man much easier. Trout Mask sounds to me as if every member of the band is playing their own song to the same rhythm. Was that the concept? I don't know. That sure is one messed up slab of noise, though. I have trouble believing it's brilliant for some reason, but I've only thoroughly ingested it on the occasion that I can actually digest it. Nobody really goes, "Alright! Good choice!" when I put it on. It's almost more unnerving than Slayer!

Obviously there's a case for it being the single greatest rock album ever, because it is. Also the best blues album, best jazz album, best hillbilly, spoken word, psych, post-punk, etc, depending upon my state of mind (or lack thereof). Zappa shunned drugs, Van Vliet very much did not (see documented incidents of sitting in circles passing around a bowl, listening to Steve Reich's "Come Out", which is nothing but the phrase "Come out to show dem" repeated ad nauseum, which is to say, I'm sure if I got stoned and listened to that minimalist bollocks I'd be nautious, but the line sure did work in "Moonlight On Vermont", about the best combo of noise/gospel/minimalism you're apt to hear. And to think, all that time he claimed to be listening to nothing but sea shanties! [Nothing wrong with that, though - I've never heard a version of "Old Time Religion" as good as "Blow Boys Blow", Beefheart's excepted, of course.])

And of course every member of the band playing their own song to the same rhythm was the concept. Cubist blues, aaight? TMR is one of those records you don't listen to around other people, they just spoil it. So it's like a good bath in that way. Unless you've got a real swank bathtub. I could see having a swell time in the bath if your tub was money. But then a swank bathtub's 'bout as hard to find as people who can dig on Trout Mask Replica, innit? It should be noted that just today I got accepted into bourgeois bohemian Hampshire College (recently portrayed on SNL as "Hempshire College", the shame over which is making me seriously reconsider going there) on the strength of 18 years of doing fuck-all as a homeschooler (I've done less than fuck-all in the last two) and an essay comparing Trout Mask Replica to Scott 4. Which was crap, obviously.

It's *definitely* more potentially upsetting to more people than Slayer. Everyone knows what to expect from Slayer...if you've heard any 30 seconds of any slayer song you know the deal, but with Trout Mask there's probably still gonna be stuff that surprises me if i listen to it right now,& i've been sorta used to it for like 20 years.

I should think The Captain still having a quiet cackle at how many people have been taken in by this piece of trash. Great cover though.

Safe As Milk is the 'better record', along with the 'Diddy Wah Diddy single'

Omigod, and all this time I thought my love of free-jazz and angular noise and eccentric spoken word was the reason for my love of Trout Mask, but it turns out I've been taken in! I must listen to nothing but the borderline-trad-blues-rock and Zappafied corny doowop of Safe As Milk because it is the 'better record'. After, perhaps I shall listen to some solo Ry Cooder records! Ooh, maybe I'll then buy Buena Vista Social Club!

Note to 'peeps': insertion of single quotation marks around phrases with no logical use for them denotes nothing but 'contempt' and the fact that the person using them doesn't mind sounding like an asswipe.

I had never really heard any Beefheart and TMR was my first experience. People had been telling me that I should check it out for years and when I finally did, oooh the anticipation! Then the confusion. What the F-??? I tried several times to listen to it but I was totally perplexed so I pretty much shelved it as shit. That was about 6-7 years ago. Since then, I heard it in random locations at random times as almost background music and though "What is this? Sounds pretty cool" only to have someone tell me it is TMR. It happened enough times that I began to see a trend so finally I tried to put it on and listen to it again and guess what? I didn't like it. I thought, "Where are all those parts that I've heard that sound cool?" but then I realized that the way you listen to it is to not actually *listen* to it, just "be around" it. I'm sure that makes sense to some. It means that headphones are probablly off limits. Just capturing little bits of it is the key for me.

Now I like to put it on if I'm cleaning the house (errr... which happens quite rarely I must admit), or fixing something. Any time where I'm not actually going to be listening hard to the music. If you try to take the songs as continuous, contiguous pieces, its very frustrating, but hearing little bits here and there gives you the feeling that there is this wild abandon going on behind your speakers. I would guess that the only reason for breaks between the songs is to give the listener and band a break. In todays more technologically advanced age, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be made into one long song.

I just recently heard SAFE AS MILK and I wish I would have heard that first, or at least before TMR. It seemed to be a little more digestable on first listen. I quite liked it. Now I see why Polvo was often compared to Beefheart.

So basically, in my house, it doesn't get much play. But when the time is absolutely right, it really hits the spot.

Not that you sound like one, Otis. Oh no!

I take pride in being able to sound like a contemptuous asswipe without the help of unnecessary single quotation marks.

If I remember the story correctly (and it may be just a story), the lead singer (Don V?) could not hear the band while he was singing. Didn't Frank Zappa produce this thing? I have one his books where he tells that tale.

Interesting, I guess.

Sigh...how I tried with Trout Shite Replica. Still one of the worst records of all time. Occasionally the band get going but then fuckwit starts to sing and I have to break another stereo. I was going broke that way so I sold the stupid cd.

Omar, you're back! And the baby's name is.......?

Yeah, I'm back and whaddayaknow within a week we're discussing Beefheart's magnus shitus in two seperate threads. Before you know we will only discuss higher Zappalogy. ;) Her name is Hannah btw. :)

Nice one - congrats and all that stuff !!

I haven't listened to all of this one, but being one of the 50 best- selling albums of all time it gives you a great opportunity to say, "I listen to mainstream stuff - you know - like Captain Beefheart."

What a wonderful world it wld be if TMR really was one of the "50 bestselling albums of all time". I think you have mistaken critical praise/listmaking for actual sales Anna, sadly.

What a wonderful world it wld be if TMR really was one of the "50 bestselling albums of all time".
What would all the alternative poseurs be listening to then? *NSync? I rate records based on body hair. Don has a fair amount so he's tops.

see documented incidents of sitting in circles passing around a bowl, listening to Steve Reich's "Come Out", which is nothing but the phrase "Come out to show dem" repeated ad nauseum, which is to say, I'm sure if I got stoned and listened to that minimalist bollocks I'd be nautious

Ahem. "Come Out to Shown Them" is a great track. To merely say that it is the phrase "Come out to show them" repeated ad nauseum misses the fact that through Reich's "phase shifting" technique, the same sample is dubbed over itself, creating continuously shifting changes in rhythm. It really does anticipate a lot of this electronic dance wankery, but is much better than most of that. (Okay, now someone object to my comment about electronic dance music.) I've never heard TMR all the way through, but the tracks I have heard never did much for me. I like some other Beefheart though, so I am kind of curious.

Reich= heard '18 musicians' and am not impressed. Little blocks of repetition and...that's it!

TMR= music was never the same again for me.

Julio on food: "Milk? I've tasted Cheez-Whiz. It was boring and bland. I have no use for milk."

TMR was actually the bestselling record of all time, but this information was suppressed by record companies because they feared such music becoming popular as it is difficult to replicate. Camden Joy will confirm this.

TMR was actually the bestselling record of all time, but this information was suppressed by record companies because they feared such music becoming popular
B-b-b-but if it was the bestselling record of all time EVAH, it would already be popular...?

I know you already told me you don't really like Reich much, Julio, but perhaps you should listen to a bit more, esp. the early phase- shifting pieces. I think you also have to approach it from the right direction--it's not supposed to be about wild musical shifts; the movement is often textural. Yeah, a bit of a yawn if you're expecting melodic development, but it can be a bit entrancing if you're listening for the texture/timbre. I find that a lot of that early material is far more interesting through headphones, like "Come Out" and "It's Gonna Rain". Again, I have this on CD somewhere, and we can potentially arrange a listening session, though I should probably just burn it for you and let you listen when the mood hits, because that's when it's more interesting (I think).

Sean- Yeah, if you could burn 'em I'll give it a go.

At first I thought 18 musicians was OK but then after a few more listens I thought: 'What's the point?' There weren't any interesting ideas being expressed here.

Listening session= We might be looking at 10-15 minute tracks max (though I forgot to say I'm interested in those Bill Hicks discs you were discussing on another thread).

every time 18 musicians comes up it makes me really want to sit down and make a list of my all time absolutely top favorite records of the nineties just so that I can have it be prominently placed

How is that a '90s record, Josh? Is it the re-recording?

I just listened to it this week for the first time in a while and I absolutely love it. Still.

there's a re-recording on the 'Works' box set. in fact i think most of the box set is re-recordings. they still all sound good though! the ECM Music for 18 Musicians is good too

mark, it's 'classical' music, it's called a 'new performance'. ;)

Oh yeah...I wonder how the '90s version of 18 Musicians compares to the orig. 70s one (which is that I have.) Anyone know?